ORDMorphixORDMorphix Join Date: 2003-01-17 Member: 12414Members
<div class="IPBDescription">just a few please</div> So, to start things out, I haven’t played all the custom maps that have come out so I can't say with authority, but I have seen and been keeping tracking the screenshots released here, and have played a few customs, so this is just my list of things, suggestions and whatnot, please listen.

1) Please consider making the maps smaller, I just got done playing ns_lost and one other one (it has custom texture buttons, they look neat) and both are huge. I don't see what the big push for big maps is, the official maps seem just the right size, with of course a few variations in size, but most are able to keep a good pace of game going. Also, from a mapping stand point, you can make that smaller map look much better than you could a bigger map. Also, not sure if its just the server, but with both ns_lost and the texture button map there is spurts of packet loss for everyone on the map, that happen regularly and only on these bigger maps.

2) don't overuse darkness, every custom map I'm seeing is looking identical to the next (in exception to 11th hour, the marine start was a wonderful breath of fresh air, the textures were different), it seems in many cases like a cheap way to cover up laziness on the mappers part of not including nice geometry and quality textures. Darkness doesn't automatically = atmosphere. Also, go the extra step and make your own textures, or even modify the existing ones to make them unique to your own map. And just remember, you want to strong contrast between light and dark in areas, don’t be afraid to use different colored lighting.

3) Please play test your map before you think of releasing it, just because the layout may seem like a good idea, you won't truly know until you have a game going. I think you can finalize the layout way before you do any of the texture work and or lighting.

4) Please consider the location in which you are modeling in, in terms of practicality and believability. I've seen a lot of interesting objects, and layouts but they many of them don't have a grounding in anything practical. Why would a hallway be 40 feet across, 30 feet high (aprox.) if its just connecting engine room to a mess hall/dock/living quarters/etc. Sure its the future, but things aren’t going to suddenly become abstract pieces of art in the future, and all usability thrown out the window. Look at some modern architecture layouts, even gothic if you want more proof that functionality can exist within beauty. This helps set the atmosphere of your map, better helps the player believe that he’s really in the universe.

Hope it helps.

Add some more you think would help mappers, and this is in no way to discourage anyone, but it helps to get ideas and feedback on anything creative.


  • FieariFieari Join Date: 2002-10-22 Member: 1566Members, Constellation
    Umm.... ns_lost isn't larger than any of the official maps. After playing on it 3 times, I've already memorized the layout and can get from point A to point B without any problems. In addition, I've also determined the key points to hold, know where to build as a gorge, recognize the order in which one should attempt to obtain hives, and understand the vent system. It took longer for me to understand ns_nothing than for me to get ns_lost under my belt.

    I think your problem is that you are unfamiliar with the custom maps, and thus don't know your way around yet.

    Most mappers do playtest, by the way. But the best playtesting is done by hundreds of people. New strategies develop for the terrain based on more time playing it. ns_lost does have one play problem in my estimation, but other than that thing, it seems remarkably balanced and well tested.

    Over using darkness? You play marines only, don't you. ns_lost ain't dark, except for one vent which has a brief section that is pitch black. All other areas in that map are rather well lit, thank you very much. Perhaps you need to adjust the brightness on your monitor. ns_lost is as bright or brighter than ns_nothing and ns_caged.

    As for lag? For me, ns_europa gets more lag than ns_lost ever did... and ns_europa is a VERY VERY VERY small map.

    I know I'm defending ns_lost in specific here, but that's the only map you actually named....
  • GreedoGreedo Bounty Hunter Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 37Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    As far as ns_lost and size, you're quite a bit mistaken. It is, in fact, smaller than most of the official NS levels. The map didn't go over more than 55% of any of the HL engine limitations, whereas most of the official maps were near 100% on at least 2 of them.

    As far as server performance (which would cause high pings), it's directly related to entity count. And, I'm pretty sure my map has fewer entities than any official map, except possibly Eclipse. So any problems there are the server's fault.

    Just some information.
  • AkashaAkasha Join Date: 2003-02-19 Member: 13755Members
    Is it just me or do most of the maps shipped with NS have bushes merging all over the place ...when i started mapping i was told this is BAD <!--emo&???--><img src='' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • Cash_Car_StarCash_Car_Star Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 6448Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Akasha+Feb 19 2003, 11:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Akasha @ Feb 19 2003, 11:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Is it just me or do most of the maps shipped with NS have bushes merging all over the place ...when i started mapping i was told this is BAD <!--emo&???--><img src='' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I don't know how you could possibly tell. The only bad thing is when brushes overlap, it drives up compile times and plays silly games with the limits, but it shouldn't affect the end result. I just don't see how you could tell from a compiled map whether or not the brushes overlap. Brushes can be sliced and the parts that overlap thrown away, ya know...
  • AkashaAkasha Join Date: 2003-02-19 Member: 13755Members
    example :have you look at Tanith while the ready room the center brushes at the bottom merge into each can see part of the other brush through the top brush.

    Also i saw a example NS map that didn't inspire me.
    If this is done in TFC map ppl would laugh at you and call you names
  • Cash_Car_StarCash_Car_Star Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 6448Members
    Ok, I checked it out, I assume you mean the red brush stiking up through the grate? Anyway, first off there's no proof that the grate isn't sliced up into seperate brushes so that the red brush does not go through it, but forther more, the grate is an entity. This may sound like nothing at first, but func_walls and such are not part of the map in the same way world brushes are. As such, the brushes do not face split on each other, and beyond that having a func_wall cut through a worldbrush has very little negative affect. If the argument is the lack of a trim texture, then well, a trim could possibly make it look better, but that's nitpicking. Seriously, if anyone laughed at someone or called them names due to this they're being quite idiotic and not looking at the whole picture. It's not good practice to intersect brushes, mostly because it raises compile times and makes your map harder to work with, but that's not to say it should never be done (unlike say using the hollow tool which has several actual problems...)
  • OlljOllj our themepark-stalking nightmare Fade Join Date: 2002-12-12 Member: 10696Members
    edited February 2003
    oficial maps are FULL of visual bugs, misaligned, overstretched textures, overlapping Solids, Gaps and places to get stuck as marine without anyting build....

    But ive sen no TFC map with the atmosphere and detail of any NS map.
  • IdenIden Join Date: 2002-10-16 Member: 1513Members
    Not so Ollj! Look at 2fort! <!--emo&:D--><img src='' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • AkashaAkasha Join Date: 2003-02-19 Member: 13755Members
    Actualy no i ment in the grey area in the center coloum thingie.


    <img src='' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
  • AkashaAkasha Join Date: 2003-02-19 Member: 13755Members
    oh yeah i have to agree with you on the atmosfear thing altho its not all about lighting etc
    That one of the reasons i wanted to start NS mapping coz its ot more atmosfear and also theres only so much you can do with 2 teams 2 bases and a flippin flag <!--emo&:)--><img src='' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
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