Has anyone thought of how funny it would be if 2gorges from different teams ran into either other in a hive saving for it? ......
1. The fatties get into health spray wars with either other. Not releazing that it not hurting them just healing. Gorge1: just die ive been health spray you for a hour! Gorge2: Muahahahahaha
2. Fatties get into a show down under the hive looking at each other with ice cold stare waiting to see which one of them is going to put it up first. Gorge1:Only need 1 more resource.....damn! He put it up first! Gorge2: Muhahahahaha Gorge1: Oh well.... might as well lay down a sea of OC's under it.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
It'd be funny though! Have a Gorge Wars plugin, where everyone starts off as Gorges and can't gestate off. On something like ns_siege (accursed map that it is), an you IMAGINE the Babblerfests? 16 player server * 5 Babblers apiece, having 80 stupid Skulks walking around or charging at each other. It'd look like something out of Braveheart... minus the kilts. ^_^ Then add in the Spit-fire crisscrossing the map, web spewing everywhere (would web affect other aliens? Think so, but it'd be odd..) and Health Spray duels as two strains of Bacterium come head-to-head to battle it out in a gladitorial display of Darwinism on an epic scale!
It'd be /sweet/. Headbutting Onos smashing into one another. Balls of Skulks rolling around, biting and clawing. Lerks in aerial dogfights, biting and Spiking at one another. Fades getting into strobing Blink battles.
Oh yes... I can't WAIT for it.
Marines, coming up against their own technology, using GLs to take out turret farms.. HA/HMGs blazing away at one another. Jetpackers zipping over the top, blasting at one another with shotguns in true Joust style. And last but not least... a CC getting sieged, sending the marines flying, Mines blowing up all over the place, flamethrowers (well, if they're ready yet) pouring screaming death at one another, blowing rooms clear and setting structures aflame. Let the Marines SEE how overpowered they are, by going up against someone else using their tech! Trying to take down a HA with just a LMG.. Fades? Fades are NOTHING. Fear the guy with the blast suit and the GL, lobbing little cannisters of high-explosive joy in your face, when you can't just bounce out of the way. Instead, you get to be slammed into the opposite wall in a fine paste. >:)
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Tale - I love you man.
I'll be personally waiting for the Lerk fights. Finally, a target worthy of fly-by biting <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I know Flay announced that it´s in, but I hope he changes his mind...MvM would open NS up for every CS FA FLF wanker out there who can´t grasp the NS concept. I´d rather be without those people.
Also, skulk-on-skulk would probably give me severe epilepsia....imagine if they both have celerity...ouch.
<!--QuoteBegin--Naughty Brembo+Feb 18 2003, 12:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Naughty Brembo @ Feb 18 2003, 12:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I know Flay announced that it´s in, but I hope he changes his mind...MvM would open NS up for every CS FA FLF wanker out there who can´t grasp the NS concept. I´d rather be without those people.
Also, skulk-on-skulk would probably give me severe epilepsia....imagine if they both have celerity...ouch. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> i can see it now....
CSplayer1: OMG u Bite-botter! you killed me! im so L33t no 1 can do that!
Sorry I didn't keep up with this thread(exams), so the late bump rears it's head.
To all the people that said they don't want it in because that will take away from the distinctive NS gameplay (i.e. two totally opposite teams battling it out), I'd argue that the fun of NS is a combination of elements, only one of which is the unique sides. The need to work as a team, different strategies for winning, RTS+FPS, amazing artwork and maps, varied weapons which all have their uses...the list goes on.
MvM or AvA by themselves would be pretty lame I agree, but adding them to this already great game would just give players more variety, and new experiences.
Also, I come from a Tribes background (tribes 1 that is, I know shok) and so I don't really understand the animosity towards CS players. Ya sure some will be ****, but there will always be good servers out there and good peeps to play with. I would love to see this game reacha broader audience..Flayra and comapany deserves even more recognition.
I think MvM would stand up pretty well without changes(especially w. the new siege code), and it would really only be AvA that had to be tweaked. Hell, what about MvMvA? I dunno, it would be hard to figure out a good set of end-game goals, but NS is already very well thought out and I'm sure Flay et all could figure something out.
The bottom line is while AvA MvM would be a different game than we're used to, the end result would be FUN regardless. And that's all I really care about.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, I come from a Tribes background (tribes 1 that is, I know shok) and so I don't really understand the animosity towards CS players. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think it stems not so much from CS as from the number of people that play CS. CS has such a huge player base that it also means it has a huge number of Rectal Orifices. Every game has them, but I think the more popular a game the more Rectal Orifices you find. I mostly played q2/q3 so I kinda was lucky in that the number of people playing HL over shadowed it. Don't get me wrong, there were a lot of Rectal Orifices in the Mod I played, just proportionally less. The saddest part is they usually stick around the longest....
Remember, in the storyline, everyone wants the TSA to fail. Its quite easy to make up a new marine team, sent by a large corporation (M$? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->) to savatage frontiersman operations. Individual nations dont like em either, so you can have marines from them. so MvM is not a problem...storywise.
For aliens...well, they dont have much of a story anyway! if they wanna fight, they fight <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->.
Now about the "having two marine teams = CS" thing...have you people actually thought about it before worrying? Sure, marines could rush to the enemy base...but what will they be facing when they get there? mines? turret farms? The problem i see would actually be a lack of rushing. both teams would pretty much turtle and slowly expand to grab res nodes. eventually, both teams will meet in the middle and break out a long, drawn out, war of attrition. Add HAs to that, and a typical MvM game may take days! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
alien battle seem alright, a tug of war for hives. dont see a problem there.
torak: hehe, Rectal Orifices. way to beat the system <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
coilAmateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance.Join Date: 2002-04-12Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Not that Starcraft didn't have the UED (United Earth Directorate), who took control of the Overmind to attempt to develop the Zerg as a biological weapon...
Some thought needs to be put into the MvM games I think because just making it mercs vs marines sounds crap really. I like the idea someone brought up before of the alternate marines being a group of "failed" marines that had been taken over by the bacteria of the kharaa, their skin was slightly discoloured and their buildings were covered in that green mouldy stuff that you see on the walls of hive rooms. I much prefer this idea as it keeps alive the original concept of the game a little, there could even be a little introduction where the good marines are briefed about contact being lost with the squad sent in before them and they have to find out what happened.
Maybe this group of marines under the control of the kharaa could retain some of the the aliens abilities; celerity, cloaking etc but be denied the use of motion tracking or sieges? Some other things could be used to balance things a bit like the good marines having the nuke again maybe or that adrenaline jab that made them run faster?
the lone marine scans the corridor, the explosions have stopped... the GL **** probubly going to reload... scorch marks and bullet holes scar the walls, showing the tale of death and destruction. it has been 5 hours now, sence the enemy squad force-docked into our space station, but we are the TSA, we dont stop till we DIE!
The marine checks his shotgun, a few more shells will be needed before the next assault... gun fire randomly erupts in several locations... but nothing big....... yet.
the marine loads up and switches on his jetpack and waves to the battle weary marines "lets move out" he yells, they all fly at break neck speed, flying past the enemy and the turrets... totally caught off guard. the group flew past the senturies lining the halls and straight to the heart of the enemy base... the CC. the commander's voice echos in the marines head sets "KILL HIM, KILL IT, KILL EVERYTHING!!!"
the enemy commander is cut to shreads by the 8 marines as chatter from the other 8 HA are making a push on the previously held corridor. the command chair goes down, another backup CC down, the armory, the proto lab, they are crippled beyond recovery, the HA comes in and cleans out... the station is saved once more!!
ever notice the longer the battles the sweeter the victory?
those complaining about MvM and CS... IF YOU DONT LIKE IT YOU DONT HAVE TO PLAY IT... if anything you should be glad that MvM is TAKING AWAY THE ANNOYING CS NOOBS FROM THE REAL NS.... not complaining about it. and it is not TFC... or DoD or anything... it is NS MvM!!!! it will be totaly different dispite your curses. and think of the innovation this great NS team has provided to create THIS game so far! think about it being placed into a MvM mod of NS!!!!!
also, there are no maps made for MvM so plz dont start flaming that doesnt even exist yet... except in our little wild imaginations. If you cant do that... go find something worth while flaming... like GWs whole iraq crapfest...
I don't see how Marine vs Marine would work, just imagine how lame siege cannon's would be.. or even grenade launchers. Alien's vs Alien's would be pretty awesome though, though you would have to limit atleast 5 hive's on a map..
For marine vs. marine the other marine side should be infected with som kinda disease or somthing, just to make it different, a cause to be fighting fellow marines.
NarfwakJoin Date: 2002-11-02Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
I can't see AvA working well, from either a game play or back story perspective. MvM is a wholly different story however, and I think it deserves more attention. I'll start off from a back story justification and work towards the game play design:
If you read through the background files (a.k.a. "The Story Design Docs"), the TSA is constantly mentioned as a peacekeeping force, similar to those implemented by the UN, except with one major difference - independence. The TSA isn't entitled to anyone, and holds no allegiances. They are the police of space, and they don't take bribes. As a result, everyone hates themselves for putting the Charter together, as the creators are just as worthy of the TSA's attention as the factions it was created to suppress.
This gives the TSA, in theory, plenty of work to do. All sorts of peacekeeping and intervention missions would be possible in this universe. One faction that readily comes to mind is the Mongolian Independent States, mentioned frequently in Six Days in Sanjii. Perhaps some incident between them and the China Territories could evolve, with the TSA going in to intervene.
A thing that also needs addressing is that the TSA is described as being originally formed to counter human threats, not alien threats. The TSA, and later the Frontiersmen, evolved to meet that challenge, but it wasn't in the original charter. This opens up the possibility of MvM combat even more.
Now, in terms of game play (<b>take note that I am throwing around broad concepts and ideas, and not specific concepts and ideas</b>): different factions of marines could be derived from the originals, and then pitted against each other. After all, the Frontiersmen are only one force in space - why can't there be different kinds of marines?
The greatest challenge in creating different marine factions would be to make them different enough to be distinguishable from each other and free from excessive overlapping, but still be similar enough to avoid confusion and excess in design requirements. One ways to meet this challenge is to distinguish factions from each other with lots of stylistic differences. Make factions look and feel different - different models and map sectors than prescribe to radically different color schemes and appearance than the already designed TSA units. Make uniforms different. Make guns look and sounds different. Make radio commands different. Basically, do what was done in BF1942 - give everyone the same stuff, but paint it differently for different people.
As useful a design concept that would be, it wouldn't be enough. Simply putting a different coat of paint on different factions would be only a superficial change that hardcore gamers would see through in seconds. To make factions truly different, you must extend their stylistic differences outside the aesthetic realm and into the realm of game design and balancing.
All I can think of as an example for this is Age of Empires. Everyone has basically the same stuff - same unit and tech tree, (mostly) same unit appearance, etc. However, not everyone has access to the same stuff, and different sides have different distinct bonuses. This shapes what is basically one tech tree into 13 distinct factions, all with their own advantages, disadvantages, and related playing styles.
A similar design could be used for NS. Marine factions could all be derived from the same basic tech tree; granted, it would have to be extended a bit to be chopped up enough for multiple factions. Problems could easily come up here, as there aren't really any weapon slots left, but that needn't be too much of a restriction. For example, weapons aren't the only thing that could be different - unit upgrades such as HA or JPs probably wouldn't be available to a "low-tech" faction like the Mongolian States, but could instead be replaced by some other low-tech solution that could prove just as useful in functionality; after all, even the highest technology military could be defeated with good-old human ingenuity.
Structure technology could also be different - different kinds of turrets, lack of portals instead replaced with some other technology (booby-traps more ingenious than simple trip mines, perhaps?). A lack of state-of-the-art nanotech could very deeply shape other factions. Perhaps they could have a "home advantage" in their own territory and space stations, which could be countered with some kind of TSA nanotech. Perhaps a lack of decent nanotech could create marine factions without a commander, but instead a hierarchy system that could be a cross between the alien command structure and modern military doctrine. Perhaps other factions could have less-sophisticated FriendlyFire systems, creating all kinds of new design opportunities.
As mentioned earlier, weapons have some restrictions in application, although that doesn't mean they can't fit into the equation at all. For example, consider the flamethrower. Perhaps the TSA decide that the flamethrower is too dangerous to use in squads, as the FriendlyFire system cannot accommodate such a weapon. However, that doesn't mean other factions don't love the idea of toasting people alive. This could make all kinds of interesting situations - use the flamethrower as the ultimate vent-clearing gun, but risk cooking your friends alive? Maybe other factions want to use the flamethrower for their own alien-toasting needs...
Yes, you heard me - alternate marine factions battling the kharaa! Well, why not? After all, the TSA is called in to clean up an incident, not posted as security guards to safeguard a region. I'm sure everyone else on the Rim would want to have <i>some</i> kind of defense against the aliens, because eventually, they will be attacked. And when they are attacked, all kinds of new game play opportunities present themselves.
I know it's a long post, and I know it's got some nasty spelling errors (I think, I did just spellcheck it but my dyslexia never helps), but give it some thought. Despite the massive amount of balance problems that would arise (we have enough trouble debating two factions - imagine what more would cause!), I think there is a lot of potential in the concept of alternate marine factions. Besides, there are no such things as design problems - only design opportunities.
I was thinking about this last night, actually. I can't WAIT for these modes <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
About the number-of-hive-points, I think this is best left up to the mapper. You get totally different games depending on the number of hives, and it would be kinda cool to have this variety:
two: quick game three: some strategy, loser-gets-reamed four: long game, loser-gets-reamed five: long, epic battle. still got some chance in hell if the other side gets three hives six: god, this would be awesome. I'm a big fan of epic battles, and THIS would be one <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
As far as marines go.... I've always maintainted that AvA would be more skill-based than traditional NS, and MvM would be more strategic than traditional NS because marines rely on resources more and kharaa rely on locations more. A lot of (not very good) commanders use turrets as if they're fighting humans as it is (ie, putting them in lines at entrences of bases). I guess it would be a lot more building - oriented, at least until the GLs start showing up. But then again, building warfare isn't a bad thing (anyone remember NetStorm? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->).
Did anyone think of the storyline gaps? It'll be interesting, assuming these changes go in, to see what they think up for why these Aliens are so darn angry at eachother. Marine backstory has some potential as well.
Maybe we'll get some info on the origin of the Kharaa and whatnot. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
the flamethrower is going to be a hell to the low-end system owners! <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
lol sounds cool, both ava and mvm <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Has anyone considered how much grenade lauchers would own in MvM?
The spam would make it impossible to break through grenades, not to mention make them super effective due to the fact they have blast damage.
An alien can run from a grenade with plenty of time to spare, but marines in HA? They are sitting ducks, and if they don't have HA they will be easy fodder for grenades anyways because they will have much less health.
Jetpacks might be able to fly in around the spam, but only to be gunned down by teammates that are camping next to the grenade lauchers....!
They should remove grenade lauchers for MvM, simply because it will make games almost always long and drawn out to the point where it gets stupid. The games wouldn't be about stratagy, but more about choke points.
Comments
1. The fatties get into health spray wars with either other. Not releazing that it not hurting them just healing.
Gorge1: just die ive been health spray you for a hour!
Gorge2: Muahahahahaha
2. Fatties get into a show down under the hive looking at each other with ice cold stare waiting to see which one of them is going to put it up first.
Gorge1:Only need 1 more resource.....damn! He put it up first!
Gorge2: Muhahahahaha
Gorge1: Oh well.... might as well lay down a sea of OC's under it.
<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
It'd be /sweet/. Headbutting Onos smashing into one another. Balls of Skulks rolling around, biting and clawing. Lerks in aerial dogfights, biting and Spiking at one another. Fades getting into strobing Blink battles.
Oh yes... I can't WAIT for it.
Marines, coming up against their own technology, using GLs to take out turret farms.. HA/HMGs blazing away at one another. Jetpackers zipping over the top, blasting at one another with shotguns in true Joust style. And last but not least... a CC getting sieged, sending the marines flying, Mines blowing up all over the place, flamethrowers (well, if they're ready yet) pouring screaming death at one another, blowing rooms clear and setting structures aflame. Let the Marines SEE how overpowered they are, by going up against someone else using their tech! Trying to take down a HA with just a LMG.. Fades? Fades are NOTHING. Fear the guy with the blast suit and the GL, lobbing little cannisters of high-explosive joy in your face, when you can't just bounce out of the way. Instead, you get to be slammed into the opposite wall in a fine paste. >:)
GIMME.
I'll be personally waiting for the Lerk fights. Finally, a target worthy of fly-by biting <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Also, skulk-on-skulk would probably give me severe epilepsia....imagine if they both have celerity...ouch.
Also, skulk-on-skulk would probably give me severe epilepsia....imagine if they both have celerity...ouch. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
i can see it now....
CSplayer1: OMG u Bite-botter! you killed me! im so L33t no 1 can do that!
To all the people that said they don't want it in because that will take away from the distinctive NS gameplay (i.e. two totally opposite teams battling it out), I'd argue that the fun of NS is a combination of elements, only one of which is the unique sides. The need to work as a team, different strategies for winning, RTS+FPS, amazing artwork and maps, varied weapons which all have their uses...the list goes on.
MvM or AvA by themselves would be pretty lame I agree, but adding them to this already great game would just give players more variety, and new experiences.
Also, I come from a Tribes background (tribes 1 that is, I know shok) and so I don't really understand the animosity towards CS players. Ya sure some will be ****, but there will always be good servers out there and good peeps to play with. I would love to see this game reacha broader audience..Flayra and comapany deserves even more recognition.
I think MvM would stand up pretty well without changes(especially w. the new siege code), and it would really only be AvA that had to be tweaked. Hell, what about MvMvA? I dunno, it would be hard to figure out a good set of end-game goals, but NS is already very well thought out and I'm sure Flay et all could figure something out.
The bottom line is while AvA MvM would be a different game than we're used to, the end result would be FUN regardless. And that's all I really care about.
I think it stems not so much from CS as from the number of people that play CS. CS has such a huge player base that it also means it has a huge number of Rectal Orifices. Every game has them, but I think the more popular a game the more Rectal Orifices you find. I mostly played q2/q3 so I kinda was lucky in that the number of people playing HL over shadowed it. Don't get me wrong, there were a lot of Rectal Orifices in the Mod I played, just proportionally less. The saddest part is they usually stick around the longest....
For aliens...well, they dont have much of a story anyway! if they wanna fight, they fight <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->.
Now about the "having two marine teams = CS" thing...have you people actually thought about it before worrying? Sure, marines could rush to the enemy base...but what will they be facing when they get there? mines? turret farms? The problem i see would actually be a lack of rushing. both teams would pretty much turtle and slowly expand to grab res nodes. eventually, both teams will meet in the middle and break out a long, drawn out, war of attrition. Add HAs to that, and a typical MvM game may take days! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
alien battle seem alright, a tug of war for hives. dont see a problem there.
torak: hehe, Rectal Orifices. way to beat the system <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
TranSystemAuthority Vs EarthDirectorateCommand (TSA vs EDC)
Karaa Vs Project 34 (Project 34 being EDC cloned Karaa or something)
(;
Maybe this group of marines under the control of the kharaa could retain some of the the aliens abilities; celerity, cloaking etc but be denied the use of motion tracking or sieges? Some other things could be used to balance things a bit like the good marines having the nuke again maybe or that adrenaline jab that made them run faster?
The marine checks his shotgun, a few more shells will be needed before the next assault... gun fire randomly erupts in several locations... but nothing big....... yet.
the marine loads up and switches on his jetpack and waves to the battle weary marines "lets move out" he yells, they all fly at break neck speed, flying past the enemy and the turrets... totally caught off guard. the group flew past the senturies lining the halls and straight to the heart of the enemy base... the CC. the commander's voice echos in the marines head sets "KILL HIM, KILL IT, KILL EVERYTHING!!!"
the enemy commander is cut to shreads by the 8 marines as chatter from the other 8 HA are making a push on the previously held corridor. the command chair goes down, another backup CC down, the armory, the proto lab, they are crippled beyond recovery, the HA comes in and cleans out... the station is saved once more!!
ever notice the longer the battles the sweeter the victory?
those complaining about MvM and CS... IF YOU DONT LIKE IT YOU DONT HAVE TO PLAY IT... if anything you should be glad that MvM is TAKING AWAY THE ANNOYING CS NOOBS FROM THE REAL NS.... not complaining about it. and it is not TFC... or DoD or anything... it is NS MvM!!!! it will be totaly different dispite your curses. and think of the innovation this great NS team has provided to create THIS game so far! think about it being placed into a MvM mod of NS!!!!!
also, there are no maps made for MvM so plz dont start flaming that doesnt even exist yet... except in our little wild imaginations. If you cant do that... go find something worth while flaming... like GWs whole iraq crapfest...
Alien's vs Alien's would be pretty awesome though, though you would have to limit atleast 5 hive's on a map..
If you read through the background files (a.k.a. "The Story Design Docs"), the TSA is constantly mentioned as a peacekeeping force, similar to those implemented by the UN, except with one major difference - independence. The TSA isn't entitled to anyone, and holds no allegiances. They are the police of space, and they don't take bribes. As a result, everyone hates themselves for putting the Charter together, as the creators are just as worthy of the TSA's attention as the factions it was created to suppress.
This gives the TSA, in theory, plenty of work to do. All sorts of peacekeeping and intervention missions would be possible in this universe. One faction that readily comes to mind is the Mongolian Independent States, mentioned frequently in Six Days in Sanjii. Perhaps some incident between them and the China Territories could evolve, with the TSA going in to intervene.
A thing that also needs addressing is that the TSA is described as being originally formed to counter human threats, not alien threats. The TSA, and later the Frontiersmen, evolved to meet that challenge, but it wasn't in the original charter. This opens up the possibility of MvM combat even more.
Now, in terms of game play (<b>take note that I am throwing around broad concepts and ideas, and not specific concepts and ideas</b>): different factions of marines could be derived from the originals, and then pitted against each other. After all, the Frontiersmen are only one force in space - why can't there be different kinds of marines?
The greatest challenge in creating different marine factions would be to make them different enough to be distinguishable from each other and free from excessive overlapping, but still be similar enough to avoid confusion and excess in design requirements. One ways to meet this challenge is to distinguish factions from each other with lots of stylistic differences. Make factions look and feel different - different models and map sectors than prescribe to radically different color schemes and appearance than the already designed TSA units. Make uniforms different. Make guns look and sounds different. Make radio commands different. Basically, do what was done in BF1942 - give everyone the same stuff, but paint it differently for different people.
As useful a design concept that would be, it wouldn't be enough. Simply putting a different coat of paint on different factions would be only a superficial change that hardcore gamers would see through in seconds. To make factions truly different, you must extend their stylistic differences outside the aesthetic realm and into the realm of game design and balancing.
All I can think of as an example for this is Age of Empires. Everyone has basically the same stuff - same unit and tech tree, (mostly) same unit appearance, etc. However, not everyone has access to the same stuff, and different sides have different distinct bonuses. This shapes what is basically one tech tree into 13 distinct factions, all with their own advantages, disadvantages, and related playing styles.
A similar design could be used for NS. Marine factions could all be derived from the same basic tech tree; granted, it would have to be extended a bit to be chopped up enough for multiple factions. Problems could easily come up here, as there aren't really any weapon slots left, but that needn't be too much of a restriction. For example, weapons aren't the only thing that could be different - unit upgrades such as HA or JPs probably wouldn't be available to a "low-tech" faction like the Mongolian States, but could instead be replaced by some other low-tech solution that could prove just as useful in functionality; after all, even the highest technology military could be defeated with good-old human ingenuity.
Structure technology could also be different - different kinds of turrets, lack of portals instead replaced with some other technology (booby-traps more ingenious than simple trip mines, perhaps?). A lack of state-of-the-art nanotech could very deeply shape other factions. Perhaps they could have a "home advantage" in their own territory and space stations, which could be countered with some kind of TSA nanotech. Perhaps a lack of decent nanotech could create marine factions without a commander, but instead a hierarchy system that could be a cross between the alien command structure and modern military doctrine. Perhaps other factions could have less-sophisticated FriendlyFire systems, creating all kinds of new design opportunities.
As mentioned earlier, weapons have some restrictions in application, although that doesn't mean they can't fit into the equation at all. For example, consider the flamethrower. Perhaps the TSA decide that the flamethrower is too dangerous to use in squads, as the FriendlyFire system cannot accommodate such a weapon. However, that doesn't mean other factions don't love the idea of toasting people alive. This could make all kinds of interesting situations - use the flamethrower as the ultimate vent-clearing gun, but risk cooking your friends alive? Maybe other factions want to use the flamethrower for their own alien-toasting needs...
Yes, you heard me - alternate marine factions battling the kharaa! Well, why not? After all, the TSA is called in to clean up an incident, not posted as security guards to safeguard a region. I'm sure everyone else on the Rim would want to have <i>some</i> kind of defense against the aliens, because eventually, they will be attacked. And when they are attacked, all kinds of new game play opportunities present themselves.
I know it's a long post, and I know it's got some nasty spelling errors (I think, I did just spellcheck it but my dyslexia never helps), but give it some thought. Despite the massive amount of balance problems that would arise (we have enough trouble debating two factions - imagine what more would cause!), I think there is a lot of potential in the concept of alternate marine factions. Besides, there are no such things as design problems - only design opportunities.
About the number-of-hive-points, I think this is best left up to the mapper. You get totally different games depending on the number of hives, and it would be kinda cool to have this variety:
two: quick game
three: some strategy, loser-gets-reamed
four: long game, loser-gets-reamed
five: long, epic battle. still got some chance in hell if the other side gets three hives
six: god, this would be awesome. I'm a big fan of epic battles, and THIS would be one <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
As far as marines go.... I've always maintainted that AvA would be more skill-based than traditional NS, and MvM would be more strategic than traditional NS because marines rely on resources more and kharaa rely on locations more. A lot of (not very good) commanders use turrets as if they're fighting humans as it is (ie, putting them in lines at entrences of bases). I guess it would be a lot more building - oriented, at least until the GLs start showing up. But then again, building warfare isn't a bad thing (anyone remember NetStorm? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->).
Maybe we'll get some info on the origin of the Kharaa and whatnot. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
R3m0ve teh Fl4m3 Thr0w3r, It ki11z my FPS when teh nme sh00tzorz m3!!!111oneonetwtowatatatthreethreepoundpound
The spam would make it impossible to break through grenades, not to mention make them super effective due to the fact they have blast damage.
An alien can run from a grenade with plenty of time to spare, but marines in HA? They are sitting ducks, and if they don't have HA they will be easy fodder for grenades anyways because they will have much less health.
Jetpacks might be able to fly in around the spam, but only to be gunned down by teammates that are camping next to the grenade lauchers....!
They should remove grenade lauchers for MvM, simply because it will make games almost always long and drawn out to the point where it gets stupid. The games wouldn't be about stratagy, but more about choke points.
Friendly Fire = on