Alien Vs. Alien, Marine Vs. Marine

sender

<div class="IPBDescription">What's the official word?</div> This is the feature I'm most looking forward to. What is the official word, and has there been any thought on how it's going to be implimented?

Cronos

Yes, there will be MvM, AvA.

No, we arent sure when this will be implemented.

Rumours suggest it for 1.1.

I'd hedge my bets and bet for a later version then that.

Try using search as this has been discussed before.

Thank you, and good day...

sender

Marine vs. Marine seems to me like the biggest bit of PR to hit Ns since version 1.0

*ahem* MonsieurEvil

Gonna bite and get us stirred up into a nice little frenzy?

MaTT

These modes wont be implemented for 1.1.... For a start you would need maps with no hives for M v M and maps with 6 hives for A v A would you not?

Shockeh

Actually, I'd go for 5 hives on any AvA map. To make it so there is ALWAYS a contention point

(I.E "OMG! GET THEM BEFORE THEY GET ONOS!")

Talesin

Nah, for MvM you'd just need two Marine Starts designated. And for AvA, you'd just need four hive points (again, the game is balanced at the moment at each team holding two points) which would easily be accomplished (and stop Marine re-base-to-a-Hive cheesiness.. see my other posts on this subject as to why it should be stopped) by simply making the original Marine start on any map have a Hive Spawn Point contained somewhere in it.

MaTT

Good point! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->

mojojojo

As has been mentioned before - the changes needed are for more difficult than that.
What should umbra do in alien vs. alien, for example. And wouldn't marine turrets be extremely powerful against marines, since marines cannot don't move fast enough to dadge, and cannot do any hiding behind the turret factory tricks.

So, MvM and AvA requires massive changes to the game. I personally am not that interested in it. I don't think its going to be in before v2.

Talesin

Prevent Spikes? Other than that, not too much.

Marine weapons have greater range than turrets do. Take 'em out with the LMG. Or just *crouch* behind the TF (still perfectly viable) and use a welder to take it apart. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->

Cronos

Marines would use brute force to crack turret farms. One rine acts as the target, the other pummels it. Sure, the rine takes damage, but thats 19 RP's down the toilet for the opposing team.

Also, resources become more important in MvM, I can just imagine all the res denying that could happen when the two teams sieges overlapped on a few RT's. It will engage the teamwork of the team and the wit of the commander, individual skill will be less focused on.

With aliens, it becomes a matter of not only protecting your defenses, but making them effective. WoL's would become redundant in AvA, leading to more open defenses. Put simply, although it will require new maps, it will simply force player to adjust their strategies according to what foe they are fighting.

The most important thing about AvA and MvM is that introduces more variety into NS, and variety is what we need more and more, rather then the standard DMS and HMG/JP rush/Hive camps that have become the standard strats.

Orcrist

I'd say 4 hive points in A vs. A, then it would similar to what it is now (even thought the marine spawn is a location of no value.)

But how would marine weapons relate? The Kharaa have super-strength allowing them to cut through nano-armor, but the marine weapons? What about the knife? And the HMG will become useless as all fighting will probably be done in long range... hmm, I don't see this being implemented any time soon.

Talesin

Already been stated that it's going in. And what's to say that knife isn't a molecule-edge blade, sharp as they come but harder than steel? And can you imagine a pair of HA/HMGers going at each other? HA has more overall HP than a Fade.. it'll be amusing to see all those 'Fades are too strong!!!' people whining about how HA is too powerful.

ogz

i want to see health spamming by both teams on a big M V M fight
lolz <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
both team dont die, run out of ammo and start knifing each other hahahah

Amped1

MvM should be Red vs Blue and AvA should be Yellow vs Green. The structures should be colored accordingly, and they are going to have to make a whole new set of entities. If they use one set marines from the enemy team can just use that armory, and turrets wouldn't shoot anybody. So with all the new modeling, maps, etc, I don't think it will be too soon.

TipTop

Marine vs Marine is going to be easier I would have thought (?) You can have one set of marine as Mercs which wouldnt take too long to colour code and model. Aliens vs Aliens is going to be tough cos you'll have to use a different model sets. Other than that can you imagine if you can pick up the HMG the other more researched marine team kitted out eith. Would sort of auto balance itself !

Talesin

<copies models, changes one bit in each to show them as different teams (if even neccessary, and not just handled by the engine), hue-shifts the textures in a batch job> Done! That took.. five minutes. :b

TipTop

Ah man that would be rubbish though. Green skuls Pffft. How about mutant Gorgs though from another realm (even fatter than their more famous counterparts) <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->

Supernorn

what im most worried with M V M is that it will turn into another DM game...and all them crack heads from CS with 2 brain cells will start playing just M V M bringing with them all their plauge of cheats and hacks, and because you dont need a brain for CS to be any good, they wont touch the original concept of A V M...and itll all go wrong and..and..and..cough..

probably v 2.0 im guessing...

TipTop

... Im guessing but you don't like CS do you? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->

Talesin

Nor do I. Stopped playing around beta 6. Every time I've even looked at it, s'filled with immature idiots. Two people have been <b>actually killed</b> in the last three months because they won against some over-testosterone-laden bint who decided to 'pay them back'. One of the murder sites was literally on the corner of the street where I (used to) live, at a net cafe. A fifteen-year-old, stabbed to death with a screwdriver.


I hate morons.

TipTop

... that aint cool. (not really CS's fault though but rather society's).

No I too do not like CS (but rather DoD outside of NS), it's interesting (and I touch wood when I say this) that NS has not become plagued by the CS cheaters (is this beacuse personal gain is not really a factor? or the fact that NS requires you to think a little) and has been left alone.

Talesin

Yet. Sadly, cheats are starting to pop up, which haven't been addressed by a patch.. hopefully the cheaters will get used to using them, so when they can't any more, they're left high and dry. The reason cheating has been kept down since the release is due to fairly swift and timely patches. It just gets to feeling like longer, when you have 1.04 here and forget how long it'd been since 1.03 came out.

Also, since 1.1 is going to be a server <b>and</b> client-side patch, sadly we won't be able to restrict ourselves to playing only on 1.1 test-servers to get away from the cheats/exploits on 1.04 until 1.1 officially hits the download section.

Ph0enix

AFAIK, A vs. A and M vs. M is vaguely slated for 2.0, along with the flamethrower (fingers crossed <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> )

I think it'd need some re-balancing and different maps, I believe the consenus of opnion was to have 5 hive sites.

I think the main attraction is proper over-and-under alien maps and two human commanders going up against each other <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->

MMZ_Torak

The one thing that makes NS so great and different from every other mod is the fact that the two teams in no way resemble eachother. It forces people to play in such a unique way that it is perfect in it's current design. Another strength of NS is map design. How many people here long for the 2fort saga all over again? I've said this before and I'll say it again. Two teams, differing only in model color, beating the snot out of each other on a flipped map is dead. NS is an awesome and refreshing change from this, personally, I hope AvA/MvM never comes.

relsan

Man I don't know if I'd like bein in a skulk fight. That just sounds too vicious heh.

Talesin

But just imagine a pack of Skulks leaping on an Onos, trying to take it down while it Charged through them, heading to take out their final Hive?

Having five Hives in an AvA game would be tough... what would a team get if they secured four of the five, and built it up? :b

Align

<!--QuoteBegin--Talesin+Feb 18 2003, 07:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Feb 18 2003, 07:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Having five Hives in an AvA game would be tough... what would a team get if they secured four of the five, and built it up? :b <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
A reserve hive, most likely.
Hmm. <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> vs <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> would also be one of the more interesting things to watch.
If I played on a haxored version of NS, where it was MvM, I would feel incredibly cheesy shooting marine buildings with marine weapons... dont know why....

relsan

<!--QuoteBegin--Talesin+Feb 18 2003, 02:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Feb 18 2003, 02:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> But just imagine a pack of Skulks leaping on an Onos, trying to take it down while it Charged through them, heading to take out their final Hive?

Having five Hives in an AvA game would be tough... what would a team get if they secured four of the five, and built it up? :b <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sadly that brings up a pretty good point talesin. Onos can't even reach most hives to attack them. Skulks are probably the best bet to take one out. Sure the onos can help taking out chambers but most maps have plenty of vents to take for shortcuts. Lerk umbra would be useless against most alien weapons so they'd have to be changed to get spores next or something. I dunno, just seems like the aliens aren't designed to be put against themselves like the marines are.

Frogg2

If it goes in I hope the models have more differences than just the skin, and maybe they could have diff types of weapons/ablities (for new Marines/Aliens) to keep things intresting.

Amped1

I was thinking more along the lines of a color stripe, and also, wouldn't you have to do a bit of coding to make the entities stick to their team? You also managed to make that 1% of me that still wanted to play CS suddenly die. That's just disturbing. Umbra would be super effective against Offense chambers. They already have horrible aim. And with the new flight models I think using Umbra in midair while having spike fights is going to be a fun thing. And imagine the fatties fighting over the resources <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> I'm looking foward to AvA more than MvM

Supernorn

i do not really want to see AVA or MVM anytime soon because i am afraid that the original concept (and what makes NS so cool) will drop dead at this point...oh and yes, i hate Counter-strike..may of been the possibility of getting shot in the head from the other side of the map with a hangun....oh yes...and the complete absence of any team work of any kind....i sure hope all them "L33t" CS players dont start playing NS...they would just go rambo and acting like arrogant n00bs...