Attack to democracy
Shuvit_Viper
Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 62Members
Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 62Members
in Off-Topic
im sorry to be a lamer and going on with a closed topic <a href="http://www.natural-selection.org/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=1;t=1525;st=50" target="_blank">(here)</a>, but here are my two cents:
<!--QuoteBegin--doctopepa+May 05 2002,16:11--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (doctopepa @ May 05 2002,16:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Look, i wasn't calling you a racist i just thought that post sounded a bit weird. Since your not, i can't see why you took this "accusation" so serioulsy.
You have to ask when you hear these kind of things instead of just looking the other way.
I hope ya'll get the point this time...
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is what doctopepa said, and i left this unreacted, because i think he overlooked this sentence:
<!--QuoteBegin--[Shuvit.Viper]+April 12 2002,1400--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> ([Shuvit.Viper] @ April 12 2002,1400)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->
I really take this serious, especially since in my country (the netherlands) a evil right man is arising, people are voting for him. He is a racist, and i do not understand why people are wanting him to be in the parliament.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This man, named Pim Fortuyn, is the leader of a new party, which is a racist party. I -really- oppose his ideas, and i think of him as evil because the world is going down right now because of people hating each other, and he brings hate.
However, today at 1800 PM he was shot 6 times, one time in the head. He died at 18:15 and they tried to reanimate him for half an hour.
This is a real attack on democracy. A left-wing activist did not agree with his ideas (as do a lot of people here), and he shot him. This is not the way. Here in the netherlands nobody thought there was such a thing possible here. You see stuff like this about the ETA in spain, but not in here...
The world is going down. There are lots and lots of hate and war (israel, spain, taliban, molucu and everywhere else. Racism is based on hate, not on love. That is why i was so angry when called a racist. I learned from my family and parents to love. Not to hate.
<!--QuoteBegin--doctopepa+May 05 2002,16:11--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (doctopepa @ May 05 2002,16:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Look, i wasn't calling you a racist i just thought that post sounded a bit weird. Since your not, i can't see why you took this "accusation" so serioulsy.
You have to ask when you hear these kind of things instead of just looking the other way.
I hope ya'll get the point this time...
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is what doctopepa said, and i left this unreacted, because i think he overlooked this sentence:
<!--QuoteBegin--[Shuvit.Viper]+April 12 2002,1400--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> ([Shuvit.Viper] @ April 12 2002,1400)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->
I really take this serious, especially since in my country (the netherlands) a evil right man is arising, people are voting for him. He is a racist, and i do not understand why people are wanting him to be in the parliament.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This man, named Pim Fortuyn, is the leader of a new party, which is a racist party. I -really- oppose his ideas, and i think of him as evil because the world is going down right now because of people hating each other, and he brings hate.
However, today at 1800 PM he was shot 6 times, one time in the head. He died at 18:15 and they tried to reanimate him for half an hour.
This is a real attack on democracy. A left-wing activist did not agree with his ideas (as do a lot of people here), and he shot him. This is not the way. Here in the netherlands nobody thought there was such a thing possible here. You see stuff like this about the ETA in spain, but not in here...
The world is going down. There are lots and lots of hate and war (israel, spain, taliban, molucu and everywhere else. Racism is based on hate, not on love. That is why i was so angry when called a racist. I learned from my family and parents to love. Not to hate.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
That said, yeah... the world is going down. Fast. I've stopped watching the news, actually. A tad bit too depressing, wouldn't ya say?
Any (world or personal) conflict that arises (which isn't caused by misunderstandings)... comes directly from hate. That's all people seem to do is hate, and it makes me sick.
That's why we have to think before every election. Don't stick to the same politicial party just because you've supported them before. See if they have more good cases than bad.
I really dislike fanatic behaviour.
One thing we should remember though while discussing problems with the world. Only an optimist can really change anything to the better...
Tell me Hicks,what is the great difference between your superpower and russias superpower (other than language).
_=RANT WARNING=_
Wait...good things America does...
For some reason it seems that the United States of America is always fighting somewhere. God I have seem more firefights than riots in LA. We are not any better than any other country; it’s just that we are far more bellicose. Hey but the western Hemisphere (Canada excluded) is the USA's Beaytch. But in all respects I don't want to get into a "Country Bashing" thread, I have that problem with the RAF <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo--> its just that if you look on CNN its always "4 Americans dead in Yemen, Iraq, Grenada, Korea (kicked china's arse), Mogadishu, Turkey, the Balkans, Africa, and every other place on the Earth that some arsehole tries to kill civilians. The thing that makes us the world super power is that the United States of America has a national belief that ALL PEOPLE SHOULD BE FREE. It’s our Constitution that separates us from everybody else. I don't like the fact that I get shot at almost every place they send us <!--emo&:angry:--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':angry:'><!--endemo--> but hey, we get to shoot back!
But of course you could say that America is evil, but we would drop 50,000 tons of high explosive on you, your country, and you mother's house.
but i dont believe that. It maybe was the funding, but it was a sick kid i think in need of help.
And please clarify:US rangers,rant warning,bellicose,beaytch,RAF.
(bad->)For some reason it seems that the United States of America is always fighting somewhere.(<-bad)
even if against "terrorism"
And what is wrong with Russias national belief "ALL PEOPLE SHOULD BE EQUAL".
And Canada does not count as USA.
Yes i hawe seen the news and played cs and other more violent games for at least 15 years although i have not listened to slipknot i have newer consider about killing anyone.Better not listen to slipknot or i will turn in to a mass murderer
su·per·pow·er Pronunciation Key (spr-pour)
n.
A powerful and influential nation, especially a nuclear power that dominates its allies or client states in an international power bloc.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you call Russia a superpower, you might as well call all the G7 countries a superpower, if you look at economy alone.
But if you look at military strength Russia might be strong, but they can't really afford to do large military actions like lots of NATO countries can, except in it's own country. (tchetchenia <- can't really spell it).
Though many of us might hate to admit it, US is undoubtly the <i>strongest</i> superpower. It's hard to say Russia is second, since they have weapons but really don't have the money to spend them on huge campaigns.
During the Golf War the whole security council (where Russia also participates as permanent member) supported a US-lead attack on Iraq (for attacking Kuwait). Russia couldn't afford to join, though they supported the attack.
One of my society-studies teachers said that the US was today the only superpower in the world. One pupil, who is known to be very far to the left, objected strongly to this saying that Russia was a superpower, though our teacher said it was an mistake thinking of Russia as a superpower just because Soviet was once a superpower. And you also have to remember that Soviet appeared much richer than it really was, especially after the Sputnik-schock, because it showed off it's military. People made the erroneous conclusion that the rest of the Soviet (the people, non-military institutions) had a welfare matching the military budgets. Soviet was a superpower, though a superpower with a really bad economy.
I don't intend to praise USA and don't mean any offense against Russia. I just wanted to clear some misunderstandings about superpowers. I hope this discussion won't continue in a bad way, forcing the moderators to lock this thread.
Then you can set a goal and do something with it.
Judging a country off a few of its dippy basketball fans is not the way to go. I live in the US and while I admit the vast majority of the population here (or anywhere in the world) consists of greedy selfish creeps... I can assure you that the people who are a tad bit more respectable are quite honored to have a country like Canada as their neighbor.
The United States is not a "bad" or "evil" country. We have loads of respect for righteous countries. Or... at least I do.... :/
I for mine have enough problems judging single persons - so how should I be able to tell wether a country, inhabited by some million single persons, is good or bad?
I love the mentallity and ideas of some American people, many of them being members of this terrific community.
I hate the mentallity and ideas of some American people, namely those funny guys who keep stating that owning a weapon is a god given right.
I love Americas politic - they freed my country a while ago, after all.
I hate Americas poltic - they're thinking about using f***** nukes, after all.
The list goes on. Whoever tries to paint <b>anything</b> in black & white will be depressed by what he sees.
You say that the world is going down?
Well, that may be right, but take a look at history: It has never done anything else.
As Kassinger said, only optimists can change anything, so let's stand up and decide at least in which way it'll go down.
[/preachingmode]
<!--EDIT|Nemesis Zero|May 07 2002,14:47-->
As for my home country, the U.S of A, we somehow manage to be greedy and giving at the same time. It's a byproduct of our wealth. There's no blame to be assigned for that - we made this country ourselves, and very recently at that. When the chips are down, we are always there for our friends.
U.S. Rangers- A unit of highly trained fightered (below Special Operations) That makes up the United State's Army's First Strike Group. Rangers are selected from army reagulars and are trained in air-insertion.
RAF- Royal Air Force, Britian's Air Core. Their version of the rangers, The SAS are members.
Bellicose- Noun - war-like, a military hot-zone.
Rant warning - I am about to speak my mind and type incesently.
beaytch- bit*h spelled so it won't get deleted.
Also the country formaly know as Russia (now the Commonwealth of Independant States) is not a Superpower, But the Peoples Republic of China is. They have a heck load of anything military. And, in my mind, fighting is a part of human nature. Its been with us since we were apes and why I don't particulary enjoy combat, it is my job. Its about fighting for an Idea, ours is freedom. The USSR had a great political model, everybody equal, but in practice it didn't work. Power Coruptes and Communist Leadership had a tendancy to be both corupt and stupid.
Hey and I really don't mean so put canada down, some of their chaps pull my ### out of a real bad situation.
Also, A country is judged by its past actions. Yes every country has its morons, The US having alot more. But most people never leave their country. Thus they don't know how crappy the world can be. I mean I HATE LIBRALS! I went to Berkly and all I heard was stop the Wars! Stop the shooting! Of all my years as a combatant I never had wanted to kill a man more. I've be in firefights aginst 12 year old girls and yea its toughf but its kill or be killed. Wars seem to be a political game these days. And for 3/4ths of the Earth, life sucks, no TV, Ice Cream, so many things that you and I take for granted. I was born in the USSR and I love America now. Standing in line for bread for 6 hours sucked! So God Bless America, Her allies and Canada!
And i know it is human nature.
And it is exactly as you (hicks) said , A country is judged by its past actions.
And by it's leaders actions.
That is why we still hate russia for what stalin did to us in ww2.
Sorry for any dicomfort i was only irritated by your comment "...and If you don't like then we will bomb you...".
And RAF is not part of USA.
Also I didn't say the RAF was american (look up to my last post), but The RAF'S SAS is their version of the US Rangers.
Personally, I [sarcasm]LOVE[/sarcasm] the current talks between Bush and Putin about nuclear disarmament. They're working on an agreement to take nearly 4,000 nukes each out of service; however...
1) Putin wants them destroyed, Bush just wants them warehoused (so they can be put BACK into active service if need be... what's the point in "disarmament," then?).
2) Putin wants the decision to be a formal treaty; Bush wants an informal "agreement" (presumably so he can weasel around it if he has to).
3) Putin wants an official means of verifying arsenal reduction, possibly by having each country inspect the other's storage sites; Bush doesn't.
Um... why is Bush still afraid of the Russians? Aren't they our FRIENDS or something?
You say yourself that power corrupts, and you say that wars seem to be political games these days.
I agree with you on both points, and that's why I <b>am</b> one of those anti-war liberals you hate so much.
Furthermore, I really think that we should go over that 'Ami - good, Ruski - bad' thinking of the Cold War.
Both sides have produced more than enough propaganda, and both sides have tried to hide as much dirt as possible.
Just for my interest, if Stalin (who didn't reign the UdSSR for a quater of the Cold War, BTW) is the only one who tried to eliminate political opponents, what was McCarthy all about? Yes, Stalin was surely much more rutheless, and yes, I'm happy that the US 'won', but acting as if America hadn't done anything wrong in the past 50 years means raping history.
[/shortish reply]
Guess who 'They' was in the first place.
Hint: He liked blondes.
For example, most people if not all at this board would agree that the US had to fight in WWII. We are most certainly better off due to the sacrifices of men lost in war. However some of the people Hicks is talking about have said (along with a presidential candidate in the last election, I recall being Buchanan) that the US shouldn't have fought in WWII. This is the sort of people he wished to shoot. If I'm wrong Hicks, please correct me.
Now we can debate until NS comes out about specific policies of WWII such as the fire storming bombing of Tokyo and Hamburg, the Holocaust, the Bataan March, the sending of Japanese skulls back to US as mementos, kamikazes, the Rape of Nanking, Hiroshima, etc etc etc.
As for raping history, it isn't rape. History is an everyman's #####; you don't need to rape her, just use 5 bucks.
As for the differences between McCarthy and Stalin, McCarthy did it for the publicity not to get rivals out of the way. The difference is subtle but important.
For the arms talk, I'll try to get back onto you about that (studying, thought, etc).
Wow, big long post, noh? Pimpy would be proud.
Also America has writtin alot of the world history as of late. pretty good for a insignificant group of colonies, eh?
But we only write western history and or sterotypical ecosentric views make understanding other cultures really hard. Example, the Sepai rebellion in India aginst the British. Also Russia was seperated from the West for centuaries and that was a major player in the differences we have today.
And the post WWII situation in Russia appalled most of the western leadership. Stalin kill approxmentaly 900,000 of his own citizens in order to eliminate anti-communism metalities of the Russian Scholar-Gentry. He used the popular pro communism support in Europe (The Russian took berlin) and the famed Iron Curtain to mask a mass murder surpassed only by Hitler. We have done things wrong but not on that scale.
On Neclear Weapons one must under stand this, That the US and Russia mantain a balance. In a Neclear war both side would get off a massive primary salvo, their objective to kill leadership officals, population centers and most importanty the other sides missile silos. The second barrage would do far less damage and would be a clean up strike. With a balanced equation, both sides would be destroyed and a neclear war is unwinniable. But the US's anti-ballistic system means that the US could block the Russian Missles and the Russians could not block the US's. The equation is not balanced and the US could win a neclear war. Thats why Putin is trying to disarm, it Russia can win then he wants bush not to bealbe to do too much damage. Bush knows he has the upper hand and does not want to give it up.
Get it now?
Something tells me that this'll become a looooong thread.
Thanks for pointing out the thing about the liberals - well, I have to say that I'm pretty happy about the USes intervention in WW2, and I'm certainly not going to start discussing which side did the worst things then, every army of that time has had its not so glorious moments.
I knew that there is a difference between McCarthy and Stalin, I also pointed that out in my previous post, I only wanted to show that the UdSSR wasn't absolutely bad and that the US weren't absolutely good.
For the thing about history being everyones astericks (or something along the lines) - globalization has taken this facts truth.
Just look at these forums - almost everyone here is living in the western culture, but nonetheless we've got very different ideas about recent history, although we all stood on the same side during that particular time.
The free and fast exchange of opinions, just like it takes place right now, makes historical manipulation extremely difficult.
I'll be happy to discuss the arms talks, but will wait until you stated your arguments before starting another rant about Bush, who is, all patriotism and friendly feelings after 11.Sept aside, still a man blessed with the IQ of Homer Simpson IMAO.
<!--EDIT|Nemesis Zero|May 08 2002,17:45-->
On Neclear Weapons one must under stand this, That the US and Russia mantain a balance. In a Neclear war both side would get off a massive primary salvo, their objective to kill leadership officals, population centers and most importanty the other sides missile silos. The second barrage would do far less damage and would be a clean up strike. With a balanced equation, both sides would be destroyed and a neclear war is unwinniable. But the US's anti-ballistic system means that the US could block the Russian Missles and the Russians could not block the US's. The equation is not balanced and the US could win a neclear war. Thats why Putin is trying to disarm, it Russia can win then he wants bush not to bealbe to do too much damage. Bush knows he has the upper hand and does not want to give it up.
I should add that the threat of neclear was is at an all time low. Russia and America may not be the best of friends by we hate the People Republic of China. Russia Hates em cause of border viloations (Tank Battles) and America is still ###### about the PRC in Korea.
But to reiderate, The Neclear Equation is now unbalanced. America has a advantage and Russia is using diarmament to lessen that advantage. Bush sees it as a way to get some serious concessions from Russia, probly pushing for American Companies to drill in Sibera. America doesent want to incress hostilities but we want oil bad. So in the future exspect that Bush will sign the deal with Putin and then a few months later you will most likly see Exxon in Sibera.
on the superpower and nukes issuse
the USA has 4000 ICBMS(inter-contenetal ballistic missels or nukes)
china has 20
russia has 3500
EU has next to none though i love the USA (my home) the EU is far more civilized and advanced socaliy
the deffinition of a superpower is the amount of infulence
the contry has thus america has military forces everyware they have alot of infulence
russia has military forces in russia and like urkrain
that is the diffrecne
any way if there is a nuke war it will be the shortest as noone will be left to fight because the wrold would blow up
and on the anit nuke thingie um it dosent matter if we stop the nuke from hiting the US we just as dead if no one else is alive and the air is poisond the water is toxic and there is no more summer aka nuclear winter were still dead
and we could only stop about 100 missle with our curent thec
this system is dessiagned not for war but for a small attack by a teroist faction
i do think that some wars are nessacery but bad however a nuke-war is never an option!!!!!!!!!!!
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Here I will have to agrue against you. At least we aren't rioting and destroying temples on purpose. I may grant that the Europeans are more cultured than us. However more cultured /= more civilized and advanced.
And Nemesis Zero, I never intened for an major agruement about who's worse than who. In fact I was trying to a point roughly similar to yours. As for debate of history, it happens fairly often. I'm just happy that rarely one shoots the other in the debate. Anyways, I'm not that interested in a huge flamefeast at NS. Bob or Mole would eat us. <!--emo&:p--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'><!--endemo-->
Edit- Quoted too much
the USA has 4000 ICBMS(inter-contenetal ballistic missels or nukes)
<b>china has 20 </b>
russia has 3500
....<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just as a bit of off-topic random comment from the peanut gallery...
China probably has a LOT more nukes than we know about. They've even got a 'secret' nuclear plant built into a mountain that could very well be producing weapons grade materials. The US wanted to go in and 'inspect' it, but China refused to let them in. Happened a while back...
and yes china proble dose have more but then so dose america
and the EU (EUROPEIAN UNION) isnt blowing up temples that isreal and palistine just them its not the hole of the mideast just them, iraq and such havent done much of infact isreal(no offence ment) has prevented them from expandeing the ecconomys a few years ago iraq tryed to biuld a nuclear power plant but isreal blew it up and the EU is more socaly advanced the the us in some EU contrys the cops dont even need guns to be standerd issuse!or so ive heard