Cheating Or Not
juho
Join Date: 2003-02-01 Member: 12965Members
Join Date: 2003-02-01 Member: 12965Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Using aliases and binds under console</div>
I have binded +fire to my mouse AND to keyboard so I can fire rapid bursted with pistol by pressing them both wery fast.
Now today some player said that I'm cheating. Am I?
It's just a bind, nothing more. I think I'm not cheating.
The todays Console was first seen in first Quake and it was wery wery normal (and perfectly acceptable) to use complex scripts to change weapons, firing etc with console scripts, using "light skins" (a one color skin, like white so that it's more easier to spot enemies) and even a "Quake Proxy" (you connect to the proxy which connects to the server) which gives you some features like voicecomm, marking areas as names to use the names in team messages, editing some configs to make the game run smoother etc etc. All this was perfectly acceptable in QuakeWorld. But now even a simple bind seems like cheating?
Wrong or right?
I have binded +fire to my mouse AND to keyboard so I can fire rapid bursted with pistol by pressing them both wery fast.
Now today some player said that I'm cheating. Am I?
It's just a bind, nothing more. I think I'm not cheating.
The todays Console was first seen in first Quake and it was wery wery normal (and perfectly acceptable) to use complex scripts to change weapons, firing etc with console scripts, using "light skins" (a one color skin, like white so that it's more easier to spot enemies) and even a "Quake Proxy" (you connect to the proxy which connects to the server) which gives you some features like voicecomm, marking areas as names to use the names in team messages, editing some configs to make the game run smoother etc etc. All this was perfectly acceptable in QuakeWorld. But now even a simple bind seems like cheating?
Wrong or right?
Comments
bind "mouse 1" "+attack"
^^^^ Anyone who thinks thats a cheat.... lol
Are you playing the game like it's meant to be played? No.
Some time has passed since Quake 1. A number of things, namely 'tactical camping', that were considered wrong back then are considered vaild today, some things that were acceptable back then, I'm thinking of the light skins here, just go against the intention of many modern games, including NS.
I for mine can't understand why you can't just try to play the game as-is.
('Pistol script'= one button to switch from LMG completely and unload your pistol)
(New pistol script=One button to completely unload your pistol and then switch to LMG and continue firing)
Sorta defeats the purpose of it being a backup weapon when it can fire as fast as an LMG with MORE DAMAGE. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Regards,
Savant
But everybody should really think about the following: what is the use for your script? is it to get an advantage over other players? or just customization?
A toggle-use button. great. A weapon change script to cycle between primary and secondary. Fine FastLeap/Umbra/Blink thenLastInv-Script - acceptable. Switch drawviewmodel with attack... at the edge! A RapidPistoleFire thenLMGcontinue script? hmm ... A script is never a cheat, but I would consider this an advantage, that shouldn't be used (if you like the game and have any feeling for the 'beauty')
AND / BUT: everybody who NEEDs this soooooo badly... ok. I dont worry about these poor players without a sense of fairness ... and the 'beauty'. It's your onw choice, and your own responsibility.
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Can I see your badge that declares you "AUTHORITY ON THE HOW THE GAME IS SUPPOSED TO BE PLAYED!"?
I think the pistol script that lets you fire faster than normal is pretty lame.
Well he's wearing a "forum moderator" badge, which may well mean he's a dev/playtester chap. Take that as you will.
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Can I see your badge that declares you "AUTHORITY ON THE HOW THE GAME IS SUPPOSED TO BE PLAYED!"? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, let's see... I was the second fan of NS at all, playtester since NS Internet Playtest 1, am NSGuide, IRCop, and moderator.
So, all things considered, I guess I know what the Pistol is supposed to do and what not.
but a fire all pistol script would be sort of cheap... beause it cuts down on steps and allows u to do things "quicker" but in a way thats still acceptable...
juho.. ur script is not a cheat.. i can spam my bullets probably quicker than ur double firing .. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> haha cuz i have a mad clicking speed.. but thats besides the point
jus think of this... in CS before there was a no recoil SCRIPT... that negated all recoil and made it so every gun had less recoil than an mp5.. it was basically aim and fire... easy aiming.... the script helped u modify ur recoil, and pulled down aiming for u... so think how easy it is for a player? is that a cheat? well in one of the OGC hacks that came it... a "no recoil hack" was there... so therefore.. some scripts DO = hacks
I dont think binding a key or multiple keys can be considered a cheat. I have a key bound to say 'in position' as this is quicker than using the menu to let the comm know quickly were I am. I also have my movement bound to the mouse buttons and fire and strafe to the keyboard, but this is just re-organising my controls. I am pretty sure this is not cheating.
The script that fires all your pistol ammo and then changes weapon I am pretty sure marks the point were the line is crossed. The script that does the leap/blink/slash is well over the line too. Basically if you set a script to remove skill rather than increase comfort then you are probably going to cross that line, however I believe after a few years you'll realize that using two hands to fire s a waste of good beer drinking time and develop a proper trigger fnger <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
I got the idea from NS manual which says something like "can fire as fast as one can pull the trigger" from pistol. So IMHO it isn't cheating to trigger +attack every frame if possible.
What comes to the old QuakeWorld scene and their scripts, I missed the point that the average QW scene was (and still is, not counting n00bs) quite small so that everyone knew about QW Proxies (which gives you so much advantage towards player without any proxy) and everyone used them. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think that the CS scene has done much damage to half-life based games because the wide-scale cheating. Just hoping that NS scene wont have the same problem.
souris for example is changing mouse sens with a script ? you can do it with just 1 or 2 binds anyway, i have 2 different mouse sensitivities bound to my mouse wheel.
scripts generally include aliases and the likes. i use 1 "script" where i just right click to leap as skulk . thats right click and NOT bite . all it does is change my attack to slot 3, fire once, then go to previous weapon. not a lot of harm in that, i can do it just as fast without but i get a bit tired of bouncing around the map continuously changing weapon to leap .
Also about the pistol, if you can click fast enough you can fire just as fast as an lmg anyway. i can drop a whole pistol mag in <1 second although usually i dont for greater accuracy myself
also, commander scripts , they can be used but seem a bit lame. i have 2 binds for commander, to drop ammo / medpack . no harm in that, just saves having to click on medpack every time. some people are just a bit uptight about any kind of binds anyway. mainly those who are "default" players , they're all just out to have fun and hide behind their fun little world..... they just expect that people should have to play the game THEIR WAY . which is just lame really, people can play the game however they want, if you dont want to play the game with them , find a different server. no1 is forcing you to play with them :/
Any bind that performs more than one command, to me, is a cheat, an unfair advantage, and in my opinion should not be allowed. If you want to change weapons and fire and all that crap, learn to press the buttons in sequence. It's not even all that hard.
But hell, that's just my two cents. That's how I play; everyone else can play however they like. There's not really any surefire way to know who's a good player and who's a script kiddie, anyway.
Everyone can make a script. And scripts should be allowed. I don't really see how you can get advantage.
I just use a mousewheel weapon change script because I like it the way it is (like in Q3). Is it an advantage? no.
haha, thankyou souris that gave me a good chuckle.
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If you are scripting to remove the skill from the game then I think you are cheating, if you are scripting to make the controls more intuative then no, you are not cheating.
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This is probably the most accurate comment in the thread. A game element (be it an imbalanced weapon/aimbot/console command that instantly wins the game/whatever) is undesirable if it removes some form of valuable skill from the game. It's easy to fit accepted cheats such as wallhacks and aimbots into this definition, and you can apply the same ideas to any script.
The pistol, believe it or not, does not fire as fast as you can hammer the button. Make a simple fast fire script and test it if you don't believe me. There is a built in delay between each shot, which limits the firing rate of the pistol. The fastest possible firing rate is actually about as fast as its possible to hammer the fire button manually, if you really go for it. The difference between scripting the pistol and hammering it then, is that if everybody scripts the pistol, its maximum firing rate is always the same. Whereas if everybody hammers the fire button, some people will fire slightly slower than others depending on how quickly they can hammer the button.
Now, hammering the fire button to fire a pistol is rarely done in a game, simply because shooting 10 rounds very rapidly into a wall isnt very helpful. The pistol only has a small clip, and is usually pulled out after you've depleted your primary, meaning every shot counts. You have to pick your shots, whether you have a script or not, an alias can't aim for you. How often in a game, do you actually fire off 10 shots as quickly as possible with little regard for where they're going? If the answer is "not very often" why are you concerned by a script which does exactly this? Furthermore, if you do fire the pistol rapidly quite alot, do you consider your ability to hammer the fire button quickly to be a valuable skill? Do you think we are playing an extra-terrestrial themed International Track and Field?
A rapid fire pistol script allows you to fire the pistol as quickly as someone who can hammer the fire button extremely quickly. In otherwords all the script does is remove the "skill" of being able to hammer the button rapidly. This "skill" is not only relatively meaningless in NS (See paragraph on how often you actually want to hammer the pistol) It is also a "skill" which most people would consider to be rather unimportant. Seeing as you all like the word teamplay so much, let me end with this:
A rapid fire pistol script removes the variable of how quickly a player can hammer the fire button, allowing the game to focus on whichever team has the best teamplay/aim/movement skill/whatever you consider important.
Personally, i don't use a pistol script, because i find it completely worthless. I can almost fire as quickly as the script anyway if i ever wanted to, but 9 times out of 10 i'd rather aim my shots. No point in wasting a key on a script i have no use for.
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i can drop a whole pistol mag in <1 second although usually i dont for greater accuracy myself
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Thats actually an exaggeration, but you made your point ;)
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There's not really any surefire way to know who's a good player and who's a script kiddie, anyway.
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lol?
Saying that some scripts remove skill is laughable. There are 2 individual skills in this game. Aiming skill, which cannot be aided in any way except with an aimbot, and movement skill such as dodging well, navigating the map well and using the environment for cover and such intelligently. That one only comes with experience.
I hold absolutely no objection against people using a fast firing pistol script. Personally though, I don't use one, for reasons previously stated by other posters.
Too bad thats not a script, its a bind
Should you not yet have realized, the one thing a good NS player needs more than any aiming, moving, or sewing 'skillz' is tactic. You can run as fast and shoot as well as you wish - if your enemy is clever enough to fall in your back, you're dead meat.
alias = groups commands together
eg:
alias voice "+voicerecord; volume 0.1"
+voicerecord and volume are commands grouped under an alias called voice
the voice alias would then be "bind"ed to a key
Should you not yet have realized, the one thing a good NS player needs more than any aiming, moving, or sewing 'skillz' is tactic. You can run as fast and shoot as well as you wish - if your enemy is clever enough to fall in your back, you're dead meat.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Likewise, you can have the greatest strategies, tactics and teamplay in the world, you'll still lose if you and your team cannot hit an idle onos 10 feet away in a corridor.
*Bows and steps away from the box*
True, but as NS makes shooting that Onos quite easy (hitscan weapons, no CSespue recoil), whereas it strongly emphasizes the strategic aspect (structures, teamcoms, <i>the commander</i>), it's placing bigger value on strategy than combat 'skills'.
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<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->True, but as NS makes shooting that Onos quite easy (hitscan weapons, no CSespue recoil), whereas it strongly emphasizes the strategic aspect (structures, teamcoms, the commander), it's placing bigger value on strategy than combat 'skills'. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
On the same note:
You can have the best teamwork in the world with the worst-aiming players, and not win.
You can have the best-aiming players in the world with the worst teamwork, and not win.
The fact of the matter is that they go hand-in-hand, you cannot win on just 1 alone. Not enough people acknowledge this.
Ph34r meh Skillz etc.