<div class="IPBDescription">Just checking</div> 1.04 umbra blocks 5/6 as stated, not 3/4, right? I'm just asking because it was 3/4 for a while, and the change log could be in error.
Well, getting hit very quickly while in umbra is possible, if the umbra works with random numbers. Then, on average, you might block 3/4 of bullets, but if you're unlucky there may be many more that get through. Or, the opposite: none at all getting though.
5/6 would be 25 bullets passed through if you use an entire HMG magazine on the umbra. 3/4 would be 37.5 bullets in the same circumstance.
Granted; 12 more bullets (round down because that's how computers work generally, and you can't have half a bullet) would not be a huge difference, but in the case of umbra every little bit counts. I opt for 4/5 personally, making a nice round figure of 30/150 bullets passing thru the umbra to deal potential damage. 80% blockage rate is pretty high also, but we have to consider both the Marine and Alien perspective on this. If the rate of blockage is too high, then Aliens get a huge advantage, and if too low, the Marines can penetrate the umbra and make it less of an asset, therefore the lerk subdues into obsolescence. The only way to clearly determine this would be to have unbiased people try this out with each of the three figures and figure out which adds the most benefit to the gameplay.
When you consider the penetration rate as Onuma stated (assuming he's correct)...
25 bullets from a base HMG is far, far more than enough to kill a Lerk. Hell, a LMG can penetrate the Umbra enough now to seriously injure a Lerk, especially if it's upgraded. Umbra is no longer viable for pure Lerking - no more hiding in an Umbra and spiking/chewing down Marines who try to shoot you in vain. Your main role now is to cover the Fades or turrets and make sure they survive a bit longer, since they can take damage and you can't.
I'm not quite sure that I like this, to be honest. The Lerk already has enough problems, and now it's pretty much relegated to pure support (unless you are rather godly with it). The spike damage increase is nice, and if you can get into a sneaky position, you can take down phase gates pretty quickly with their lowered health - plus Lerks are the easiest way to get rid of early Jetpacker rushes. But if they have an HMG? Turn and spray a second, bye bye Lerk.
The change just seems to relegate Lerk to an even more niche position, and while we see more Lerks in 1.04, it's not because they're better - it's because Fades are more expensive. I've given up on Lerking til the major changes in 1.1 mainly because of this downgrade of Umbra. :\
I find that many marines (and myself, for quite some time) operate under the assumption that it's simply not worth shooting into an umbra, and vastly underestimate their chances. They factor in the toughness of the umbra--but not the fragility of the lerk and it's inability to dodge while remaining within the cloud.
<!--QuoteBegin--Terr+Jan 26 2003, 06:48 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Terr @ Jan 26 2003, 06:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I find that many marines (and myself, for quite some time) operate under the assumption that it's simply not worth shooting into an umbra, and vastly underestimate their chances. They factor in the toughness of the umbra--but not the fragility of the lerk and it's inability to dodge while remaining within the cloud.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Exactly - plus the uncertain boundary of the umbra tends to make Lerks feel safer than they actually are. I've been killed by LMG fire in a couple seconds of fire while in umbra. Going after a Fade in Umbra is useless - but taking out the Lerk is easier than most people realize.
Yea, I dont like the fade much so I opted to go with the fun of the lerk. Not as many lerks flying around, and I like to join the lesser used choices. Most people never expect or can deal with it being not having as much experience. *Hail Zangief!* But often when I umbra, I dont bother to look at my life and just go chewing away. But it does happen, and im always a little miffed when I umbra, it says, In Umbra, and im killed in half a second of a lone marines lmg. It happens. I just like them the way they were. More health wouldnt hurt. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
lerk is my favorite alien position after gorge (if i have a decent team)
i can own a single marine easy <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
but the umbra is weak as hell now.. I have been playin with it blockin 3/4 bullets and it sucks hella hard. I havent had to much play with the final patch but i'm hopin its a little stronger. As it is umbra gives u just a few more seconds to do damage before u run away and heal
on a side note: it feels so good jumping into an umbra and knifing a lerk with a fade right there with him <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Umbra is one of the best things about this game. It encourages teamwork.
3/4 umbra lerk was perfectly good, you just had to be a bit more careful (ie no more casting umbra and chuckling while the marines all unload their clips into you <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->). Even so, as a lerk I ain't gonna complain if they make it 5/6 <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->.
<!--QuoteBegin--Liku+Jan 27 2003, 02:27 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Liku @ Jan 27 2003, 02:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Umbra is stupidiest Weapon in the game, it makes no sence.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Neither Does the siege turret, but it's in there, isnt it? Should we remove that as well? Or Nerf it to absolute uselessness?
<!--QuoteBegin--Liku+Jan 26 2003, 09:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Liku @ Jan 26 2003, 09:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Umbra is stupidiest Weapon in the game, it makes no sence. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That's because umbra is not a weapon, it's a tool. Weapons would be the LMG, Teeth, or even a Welder. <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Liku+Jan 27 2003, 02:27 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Liku @ Jan 27 2003, 02:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Umbra is stupidiest Weapon in the game, it makes no sence. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Umbra is one of the most important abilities in the game. Its use can determine how well an attacking party takes a marine outpost aswell as how well an alien line is defended.
10% more of the rounds will get through, people... it's not a huge debilitating change, even if it *IS* dropped to 3/4.
If it was changed from 6/7 to 5/6, that means that out of an entire LMG mag expended, you've just gone from having 7 rounds penetrate the umbra to having 8 rounds penetrate. If it dropped from 6/7 to 3/4, youve gone from 7 rounds penetrating to 12 rounds penetrating.
Now, considering that, after penetrating, these rounds still have to HIT... i'm really not sure this is something you can really complain about <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> Hell, a lerk with umbra up and regeneration (instead of carapace) at the current regen rates can practically ignore the LMG fire if it's at any kind of range.
Another easy way to view this: it's gone from 17/20 to 15/20... does that seem much less painful?
I would love to be better playing as a Lerk, I can never seem to go down hallways fast tho, I always crash into the wall, then try to turn... lol
<------ noob
But Umbra is a very useful skill to have when you have fades trying to take down an outpost. 3/4 bullets blocked is better than 0/4. And it's not so much that marines can't do anything about it. Shoot down the lerk and no more Umbra.
Man I love lerk: he is the man...It's kind of easy to own most marine teams with ratios far better than 6:1 with him. Plus he's cute <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
Cute? Take a look at my sig, the Lerk doesn't even brush his teeth for God's sake! He's a scrub, like Firewater <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <3
Would you call the dirty kid in school cute?! HUH?!?! <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Any more rounds that come through, is one more the already low health lerk cant take. But I havent tried the new regen. But ive sat in umbras and never been hit, and other times ive been killed instantly by lmg fire. I think it picks a random # and decides if it goes through. Not like like stop 3, let one in. And does anyone know if theres an umbra between a marine and lerk, no one actually inside of it, if it stops bullets? I know for the lerk on the bottom it says umbra. So does the cloud itself do the bullet stopping or is it the effect of being in a cloud, In Umbra, that does the #'s?
<!--QuoteBegin--Onuma+Jan 26 2003, 10:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Onuma @ Jan 26 2003, 10:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The only way to clearly determine this would be to have unbiased people try this out with each of the three figures and figure out which adds the most benefit to the gameplay. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Or you could trust the playtesters...
<!--QuoteBegin--wlibaers+Jan 26 2003, 09:49 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (wlibaers @ Jan 26 2003, 09:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well, getting hit very quickly while in umbra is possible, if the umbra works with random numbers. Then, on average, you might block 3/4 of bullets, but if you're unlucky there may be many more that get through. Or, the opposite: none at all getting though. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yea, the randomness means you'll get streaks of good or bad luck...but it evens out within a very short time, you'll know that if you've played lerk much...
The umbra, combined with the new and improved regeneration, is a LETHAL combination for support and sniping work. I love it <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think it does, at least later in the game when a few hits do a lot more damage. And a HMG fires fast enough that those extra few hits going through add up pretty fast. I used to find that a lerk, and 2 fades could take on 2 or 3 HA/HMGs but now they just mow me and the fades down.
<!--QuoteBegin--TheGlow+Jan 27 2003, 10:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheGlow @ Jan 27 2003, 10:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Any more rounds that come through, is one more the already low health lerk cant take. But I havent tried the new regen. But ive sat in umbras and never been hit, and other times ive been killed instantly by lmg fire. I think it picks a random # and decides if it goes through. Not like like stop 3, let one in. And does anyone know if theres an umbra between a marine and lerk, no one actually inside of it, if it stops bullets? I know for the lerk on the bottom it says umbra. So does the cloud itself do the bullet stopping or is it the effect of being in a cloud, In Umbra, that does the #'s?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think umbra ONLY blocks bullets that normally hit you if you ARE in umbra.
I mean, if there is a marine shoting a lerk in umbra and a bullet doesn't hit the lerk but hits a fade that is out of umbra, this bullet doesn´t check the block condition even if this bullet passes through umbra.
Comments
Edit: Haha. It's an improvement, I guess.
3/4 would be 37.5 bullets in the same circumstance.
Granted; 12 more bullets (round down because that's how computers work generally, and you can't have half a bullet) would not be a huge difference, but in the case of umbra every little bit counts. I opt for 4/5 personally, making a nice round figure of 30/150 bullets passing thru the umbra to deal potential damage. 80% blockage rate is pretty high also, but we have to consider both the Marine and Alien perspective on this.
If the rate of blockage is too high, then Aliens get a huge advantage, and if too low, the Marines can penetrate the umbra and make it less of an asset, therefore the lerk subdues into obsolescence. The only way to clearly determine this would be to have unbiased people try this out with each of the three figures and figure out which adds the most benefit to the gameplay.
25 bullets from a base HMG is far, far more than enough to kill a Lerk. Hell, a LMG can penetrate the Umbra enough now to seriously injure a Lerk, especially if it's upgraded. Umbra is no longer viable for pure Lerking - no more hiding in an Umbra and spiking/chewing down Marines who try to shoot you in vain. Your main role now is to cover the Fades or turrets and make sure they survive a bit longer, since they can take damage and you can't.
I'm not quite sure that I like this, to be honest. The Lerk already has enough problems, and now it's pretty much relegated to pure support (unless you are rather godly with it). The spike damage increase is nice, and if you can get into a sneaky position, you can take down phase gates pretty quickly with their lowered health - plus Lerks are the easiest way to get rid of early Jetpacker rushes. But if they have an HMG? Turn and spray a second, bye bye Lerk.
The change just seems to relegate Lerk to an even more niche position, and while we see more Lerks in 1.04, it's not because they're better - it's because Fades are more expensive. I've given up on Lerking til the major changes in 1.1 mainly because of this downgrade of Umbra. :\
Exactly - plus the uncertain boundary of the umbra tends to make Lerks feel safer than they actually are. I've been killed by LMG fire in a couple seconds of fire while in umbra. Going after a Fade in Umbra is useless - but taking out the Lerk is easier than most people realize.
But often when I umbra, I dont bother to look at my life and just go chewing away. But it does happen, and im always a little miffed when I umbra, it says, In Umbra, and im killed in half a second of a lone marines lmg. It happens. I just like them the way they were. More health wouldnt hurt. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
i can own a single marine easy <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
but the umbra is weak as hell now.. I have been playin with it blockin 3/4 bullets and it sucks hella hard. I havent had to much play with the final patch but i'm hopin its a little stronger. As it is umbra gives u just a few more seconds to do damage before u run away and heal
on a side note: it feels so good jumping into an umbra and knifing a lerk with a fade right there with him <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
3/4 umbra lerk was perfectly good, you just had to be a bit more careful (ie no more casting umbra and chuckling while the marines all unload their clips into you <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->). Even so, as a lerk I ain't gonna complain if they make it 5/6 <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->.
Neither Does the siege turret, but it's in there, isnt it? Should we remove that as well? Or Nerf it to absolute uselessness?
That's because umbra is not a weapon, it's a tool. Weapons would be the LMG, Teeth, or even a Welder.
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
r4wr
Umbra is one of the most important abilities in the game. Its use can determine how well an attacking party takes a marine outpost aswell as how well an alien line is defended.
5/6 0.833333333333333333333333333333333
3/4 0.750000000000000000000000000000000
10% more of the rounds will get through, people... it's not a huge debilitating change, even if it *IS* dropped to 3/4.
If it was changed from 6/7 to 5/6, that means that out of an entire LMG mag expended, you've just gone from having 7 rounds penetrate the umbra to having 8 rounds penetrate. If it dropped from 6/7 to 3/4, youve gone from 7 rounds penetrating to 12 rounds penetrating.
Now, considering that, after penetrating, these rounds still have to HIT... i'm really not sure this is something you can really complain about <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> Hell, a lerk with umbra up and regeneration (instead of carapace) at the current regen rates can practically ignore the LMG fire if it's at any kind of range.
Another easy way to view this: it's gone from 17/20 to 15/20... does that seem much less painful?
<------ noob
But Umbra is a very useful skill to have when you have fades trying to take down an outpost. 3/4 bullets blocked is better than 0/4. And it's not so much that marines can't do anything about it. Shoot down the lerk and no more Umbra.
Would you call the dirty kid in school cute?! HUH?!?! <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Or you could trust the playtesters...
Yea, the randomness means you'll get streaks of good or bad luck...but it evens out within a very short time, you'll know that if you've played lerk much...
I used to find that a lerk, and 2 fades could take on 2 or 3 HA/HMGs but now they just mow me and the fades down.
I think umbra ONLY blocks bullets that normally hit you if you ARE in umbra.
I mean, if there is a marine shoting a lerk in umbra and a bullet doesn't hit the lerk but hits a fade that is out of umbra, this bullet doesn´t check the block condition even if this bullet passes through umbra.