Build 327 - UNEARTHED - Natural Selection 2

245

Comments

  • MoFo1MoFo1 United States Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Members Posts: 724 Advanced user
    edited April 25
    Wouldn't it be easier to like number the tunnels or something? Then whenever either end of a tunnel dies, default the remaining end to an entrance.

    No more confusion. You could just look at the tunnel and see "ok that was tunnel two" then you just click on the second tunnel's exit in the menu.

    Having both ends of a tunnel die whenever one end gets destroyed would suck.



    @Mephilles. I'm playing at 2k basically. 1440p.

    I haven't memorized the actual numbers yet but it's like 2200 x 1440. (Just recently upgraded from 1920x1080 60hz to 1440p 144hz)

    I think it's a mod causing the issue as sometimes I have the little circle (which IS half hidden behind my health bar) and sometimes it's just not there at all.

    I've had to mention several times to people who are complaining about it as well. "no they didn't remove the parasite circle it's bugged"
    Oliverphj
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,465 Advanced user
    ZEROibis wrote: »
    Vetinari wrote: »
    Something I suggest to beige on sunday: Stop separating tunnel ends. If one tunnel dies, the other end dies, too (after all aliens have left it). When you drop a tunnel, a second blueprint sticks to your mouse, which is the other end. Only after you have placed that second tunnel both ends actually appear and start to grow. Now there is no ambiguity, and you could probably get by with a single button.
    The only problem I could see here is having to pan from one tunnel spot to the other, but you'd have to test how much of an issue that actually is.

    The problem with this is that you then need to be able to build both ends at the same time. If it worked like you are describing it would be really bad for aliens.

    Why, though? The only benefit I could see to building one end of the tunnel significantly earlier than the other is that i allows you to spread out the cost of it. Which is probably not necessary if you adjust the price.
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

    I am good Onos
  • ZEROibisZEROibis Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69176Members, Constellation Posts: 1,017 Advanced user
    Vetinari wrote: »
    ZEROibis wrote: »
    Vetinari wrote: »
    Something I suggest to beige on sunday: Stop separating tunnel ends. If one tunnel dies, the other end dies, too (after all aliens have left it). When you drop a tunnel, a second blueprint sticks to your mouse, which is the other end. Only after you have placed that second tunnel both ends actually appear and start to grow. Now there is no ambiguity, and you could probably get by with a single button.
    The only problem I could see here is having to pan from one tunnel spot to the other, but you'd have to test how much of an issue that actually is.

    The problem with this is that you then need to be able to build both ends at the same time. If it worked like you are describing it would be really bad for aliens.

    Why, though? The only benefit I could see to building one end of the tunnel significantly earlier than the other is that i allows you to spread out the cost of it. Which is probably not necessary if you adjust the price.


    Game starts, I drop a tunnel in base george builds in base and moved on to first natural. George builds natural george moves on to next RT and builds that. By now my infestation has spread to where I want the other end. Now I drop that end and the george builds it.

    If I had to drop both ends at the same time I would not be able to do this. Thus this would significantly delay the time it takes to get tunnels up.

    Another situation is lets say I am ready to drop both ends. I drop one end and then as I go to place my second end the game conditions suddenly change and I can not place it where I want. I guess I need to cancel the entire operation now?

    You could go from the current 8 buttons to 4 buttons but your not going to get it down to just 1 button.

    Another situation.

    Lets say I have 2 hives up. I have two tunnels up. One one of each of the two different tunnels gets killed. I only want to replace one of them and I need it to be the second one. With only 1 button I would need to know some hotkey to execute this action and place only the end for the second tunnel instead of the first tunnel.



    Also wanted to add a bug report for the tunnels:
    Currently when a tunnel is unbuilt you can select it and the option to upgrade to an infested tunnel is not grayed out. It should be grayed out until the tunnel is built.
    image
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    .trixX.IronHorseOliverphj
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,465 Advanced user
    ZEROibis wrote: »
    Game starts, I drop a tunnel in base george builds in base and moved on to first natural. George builds natural george moves on to next RT and builds that. By now my infestation has spread to where I want the other end. Now I drop that end and the george builds it.

    If I had to drop both ends at the same time I would not be able to do this. Thus this would significantly delay the time it takes to get tunnels up.

    If both tunnel ends are treated as essentially one structure, like I am suggesting, it would make sense to share health pools and build time. A shared health pool raises some questions about what happens if one end dies - but if you leave that aside for a second, a shared build percentage (i.e. gorge heals one end, both ends get growth bonus) would actually mean your gorges don't have to stick around early on and you get into the match faster.
    ZEROibis wrote: »
    Another situation is lets say I am ready to drop both ends. I drop one end and then as I go to place my second end the game conditions suddenly change and I can not place it where I want. I guess I need to cancel the entire operation now?

    Yes. You press escape or right click and you cancel it, nothing happens. Imagine it like building streets in cities skylines: You click somewhere, which places the first end, then you go to where you want it to end, and you click again to confirm the whole thing. If you cancel in the middle nothing happens.

    ZEROibis wrote: »
    You could go from the current 8 buttons to 4 buttons but your not going to get it down to just 1 button.

    Why not? With this system there is no more need to distinguish tunnels, or to distinguish entrances from exits. You just need one button to initiate a tunnel drop. After pressing the button you click where you want the tunnel entrance to be, then where you want the exit to be. If you are already at maximum tunnels, you can't place the first end and get some kind of notification if you click. At no point do you need a second button.

    ZEROibis wrote: »
    Another situation.

    Lets say I have 2 hives up. I have two tunnels up. One one of each of the two different tunnels gets killed. I only want to replace one of them and I need it to be the second one. With only 1 button I would need to know some hotkey to execute this action and place only the end for the second tunnel instead of the first tunnel.

    With the system I am proposing, this is not possible. When one end dies, the other dies, too. If you want to get the tunnel back up you place both ends again.




    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

    I am good Onos
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Posts: 8,191 admin
    "When one end dies, the other dies, too."

    We tried this, it did not work for a number of reasons.. from intuitive gameplay to technical issues and bugs.
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,465 Advanced user
    IronHorse wrote: »
    "When one end dies, the other dies, too."

    We tried this, it did not work for a number of reasons.. from intuitive gameplay to technical issues and bugs.

    Glad to see you tried it, though.
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

    I am good Onos
  • RadimaXRadimaX Join Date: 2013-02-05 Member: 182840Members Posts: 587 Advanced user
    edited April 25
    Absolutely nobody:
    Babblers:
    8se1vqd25n5y.png

    - Not sure how many you could control at once, i just spectated for a couple of second before game crashed.
    Post edited by RadimaX on
    ZavaroNintendows
  • colonoscopy_odysseycolonoscopy_odyssey Melbourne Join Date: 2014-04-25 Member: 195607Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 59 Advanced user
    i'm curious, what's with the random rooms / parts of the map outside the main map? for example, ore processing from tram is randomly floating around
  • ZEROibisZEROibis Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69176Members, Constellation Posts: 1,017 Advanced user
    i'm curious, what's with the random rooms / parts of the map outside the main map? for example, ore processing from tram is randomly floating around

    In older games this would be done for skyboxing purposes. This would be commonly seen in games like CS:S and CS skyboxes. Not sure if they are doing the same but that is what I would assume.
    image
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    Server IP: NS2CO.IBISGaming.com
  • KasharicKasharic Hull, England Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184473Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 683 Advanced user
    i'm curious, what's with the random rooms / parts of the map outside the main map? for example, ore processing from tram is randomly floating around

    I'm going to assume you're talking about Unearthed.

    The reason you can find those rooms is because in the ready room it is tradition for mappers to put in "secret rooms" that players can spend their time trying to find while they seed servers... Unearthed has 2 secret rooms, if you're floating around in spectate, you will find them, but to truly enjoy them, I recommend going marine, then returning to the ready room and trying to find the entrances. there you will be greeted with mini-puzzles (puzzles are unique to unearthed at the moment).

    Ore Processing is part of a chain of "vent trick jumps" that i've put together as a kind of assault course, all of the trick jumps in this secret room are possible in the live versions of the maps also, so you could, if you get good enough at them, use them in a round to sneak up on unknowing aliens etc.
    Meph isn't an NSL admin anymore!

    #blameHefty
    .trixX.skav2
  • colonoscopy_odysseycolonoscopy_odyssey Melbourne Join Date: 2014-04-25 Member: 195607Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 59 Advanced user
    edited April 26
    Sounds like you put a lot of love into this man, congratulations and well done

    Haven’t had a chance to play a proper round yet, but the map is very pretty and eye catching
    KasharicIronHorse
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Posts: 8,191 admin
    edited April 27
    PSA:

    To those who do not see status UI icons, or the parasite timer while playing marine... you need to ensure you have both HIGH HUD DETAIL enabled in vanilla options, and that you are not utilizing NS2+'s "Minimal HUD" option, as that will disable High HUD detail, by design.
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
  • NousWandererNousWanderer Join Date: 2010-05-07 Member: 71646Members Posts: 258 Advanced user
    IronHorse wrote: »
    PSA:

    To those who do not see status UI icons, or the parasite timer while playing marine... you need to ensure you have both HIGH HUD DETAIL enabled in vanilla options, and that you are not utilizing NS2+'s "Minimal HUD" option, as that will disable High HUD detail, by design.
    As a temporary measure, fine, but I think this is a strong argument for giving the status UI icons their own toggle setting at some point in the nearish future. NS2 is a lot more enjoyable with a simpler HUD.

    As of writing this, I don't remember which visual elements are controlled via the vanilla HUD detail setting vs. NS2+'s "minimal HUD" setting, but I'm fairly happy with what they do in conjunction. And yet I think the new status icons are valuable and worth enabling! I'm probably not alone there.

    IronHorseskav2BeigeAlert
  • AtokuAtoku Switzerland(VS) Join Date: 2012-11-16 Member: 171815Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 5 Fully active user
    Removing the tunnel to the gorge... Well with that change it appear that game are boring because alien cannot make comeback anymore and marine com doesn't need to pay attention than usual. Gorge is important for the team but now...well you still need it, but it's different.
    Oliverphj
  • KasharicKasharic Hull, England Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184473Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 683 Advanced user
    Atoku wrote: »
    Removing the tunnel to the gorge... Well with that change it appear that game are boring because alien cannot make comeback anymore and marine com doesn't need to pay attention than usual. Gorge is important for the team but now...well you still need it, but it's different.

    Go and play the god damn game... you'll see just how capable aliens are without your precious gorge tunnel rushes... Spoiler alert... They still win!
    Meph isn't an NSL admin anymore!

    #blameHefty
    .trixX.
  • NintendowsNintendows Join Date: 2016-11-07 Member: 223716Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 379 Advanced user
    Kasharic wrote: »
    Atoku wrote: »
    Removing the tunnel to the gorge... Well with that change it appear that game are boring because alien cannot make comeback anymore and marine com doesn't need to pay attention than usual. Gorge is important for the team but now...well you still need it, but it's different.

    Go and play the god damn game... you'll see just how capable aliens are without your precious gorge tunnel rushes... Spoiler alert... They still win!

    The fact that removing gorge tunnels hasn't affected alien winrates in a negative way really proves that it was unnecessary.
  • KasharicKasharic Hull, England Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184473Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 683 Advanced user
    edited April 28
    Nintendows wrote: »
    Kasharic wrote: »
    Atoku wrote: »
    Removing the tunnel to the gorge... Well with that change it appear that game are boring because alien cannot make comeback anymore and marine com doesn't need to pay attention than usual. Gorge is important for the team but now...well you still need it, but it's different.

    Go and play the god damn game... you'll see just how capable aliens are without your precious gorge tunnel rushes... Spoiler alert... They still win!

    The fact that removing gorge tunnels hasn't affected alien winrates in a negative way really proves that it was unnecessary.

    I think you'll find the plethora of balance changes put in place to ensure that the removal of gorge tunnels didn't impact balance proves that the 5 months of ironing out the creases in the patch were worth while... But of course, you'd know all about all of that wouldn't you nin.

    MANY gorge buffs
    Movement tweaks
    Cyst improvements
    RT health drain off of infestation reduction.
    etc etc etc

    You know, that huge balance change list that was released a few weeks ago... yeah... those changes... If it were just the tunnels being changed and nothing else, Aliens would be getting shit on in every round and you know it, now quit being jaded and facetious.
    Meph isn't an NSL admin anymore!

    #blameHefty
  • MoFo1MoFo1 United States Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Members Posts: 724 Advanced user
    edited April 28
    First off let's remember that ever since ther build went live we've had a metric crapton of rookies that skew any statistics as it's infinitely easier to win as rookie on alien. (Easier to command alien as well)

    Honestly I think the majority of Alien wins right now are due to a bad commander on marine (ie not getting upgrades quickly enough) and marines lacking teamwork (which is still required)

    Once people understand the new meta of "rush a2 with AA + rush hives = ez win" that win rate will start to change.

    Tunnels being moved to commander isn't the problem.. The cyst chain being harder to grow, tunnels needing infestation, the hive having less health, GL's doing 5x damage to hives... these are the problems.

    Imagine if bile bomb did 5x more damage AND Gorges could still drop tunnels.. That's basically what the marines have right now.

    Ninja phasegate rushes are still very much a thing (easy to pull off as well) while Aliens struggle just to get a tunnel up past the "front lines" for aliens to get behind them and bite res.


    It also sucks that the one thing I was most useful at doing on marine was watching for and blocking tunnel rushes. As a marine who can't aim I was able to make a major contribution to the win while at the same time managing to eek out a tiny bit of fun from the miserable experience that is marine play.

    Now gorges are so fast it's virtually impossible for me to kill one, and since tunnels past the front lines are no longer a thing there's nothing for me to do but run around and die with the team. The tunnel change + gorge buffs completely ruined marine play for me.
    Oliverphj
  • NintendowsNintendows Join Date: 2016-11-07 Member: 223716Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 379 Advanced user
    Kasharic wrote: »
    now quit being jaded and facetious.

    That's pretty rude. Please try to be kinder in the future, there's no need for this.

    All I do is try to help this game, yet people like you seem to think I have some negative intention. It really makes it very difficult to continue to contribute.
    Oliverphj
  • KasharicKasharic Hull, England Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184473Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 683 Advanced user
    Nintendows wrote: »
    Kasharic wrote: »
    now quit being jaded and facetious.

    That's pretty rude. Please try to be kinder in the future, there's no need for this.

    All I do is try to help this game, yet people like you seem to think I have some negative intention. It really makes it very difficult to continue to contribute.

    I don't consider complaining about things endlessly as an attempt to help the game... I don't consider consistently trashing the time and effort the devs put into the game "helpful" because you disagree with the choices.

    Sorry if I come across as harsh, but I've seen this for so long and it is infuriating, you want to help? actually help.
    Meph isn't an NSL admin anymore!

    #blameHefty
  • NintendowsNintendows Join Date: 2016-11-07 Member: 223716Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 379 Advanced user
    Kasharic wrote: »
    Nintendows wrote: »
    Kasharic wrote: »
    now quit being jaded and facetious.

    That's pretty rude. Please try to be kinder in the future, there's no need for this.

    All I do is try to help this game, yet people like you seem to think I have some negative intention. It really makes it very difficult to continue to contribute.

    I don't consider complaining about things endlessly as an attempt to help the game... I don't consider consistently trashing the time and effort the devs put into the game "helpful" because you disagree with the choices.

    Sorry if I come across as harsh, but I've seen this for so long and it is infuriating, you want to help? actually help.

    Oh please, show me some examples of "complaining about things endlessly". Now who's being "jaded"?

    And how have I not been helping? Or are you just being facetious now?

    This reads like a joke, but I'm not quite seeing the humour.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,754 Advanced user
    edited April 29
    0hQyd5L.gif
    Post edited by Nordic on
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
    SquishpokePOOPFACE
  • KasharicKasharic Hull, England Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184473Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 683 Advanced user
    Put your popcorn away Nordic, i'm not going to waste my time.
    Meph isn't an NSL admin anymore!

    #blameHefty
  • NintendowsNintendows Join Date: 2016-11-07 Member: 223716Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 379 Advanced user
    Kasharic wrote: »
    Put your popcorn away Nordic, i'm not going to waste my time.

    Not sure if you're being ironic, but that's a good example of a jaded response. Which, if you did deliberatly, is also a good example of being facetious...
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,754 Advanced user
    Nin is a known troll.
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
    KasharicSquishpokePOOPFACE
  • KasharicKasharic Hull, England Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184473Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 683 Advanced user
    Nordic wrote: »
    Nin is a known troll.

    He's also known to try to score points and such to create some faux moral high ground to back up his arguments at a later date... its why i'm not rising to his bait.
    Meph isn't an NSL admin anymore!

    #blameHefty
    Nordic
  • NintendowsNintendows Join Date: 2016-11-07 Member: 223716Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 379 Advanced user
    Kasharic wrote: »
    Nordic wrote: »
    Nin is a known troll.

    He's also known to try to score points and such to create some faux moral high ground to back up his arguments at a later date... its why i'm not rising to his bait.

    You've been baited by nordic.

    On another note, I beg you: Please answer my questions! I really am curious as to how you think I'm not helping NS2. Please.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,754 Advanced user
    edited April 29
    Nintendows wrote: »
    On another note, I beg you: Please answer my questions! I really am curious as to how you think I'm not helping NS2. Please.
    IronHorse wrote: »
    3) You don't need to reset or wait anymore! An additional Infantry Portal automatically spawns whenever more players arrive on the team, not just at the round start anymore, but at any point in a round. (Credit goes to @Nintendows !)
    Proof that nin helps.
    Nintendows wrote: »
    Kasharic wrote: »
    Nordic wrote: »
    Nin is a known troll.

    He's also known to try to score points and such to create some faux moral high ground to back up his arguments at a later date... its why i'm not rising to his bait.
    You've been baited by nordic.
    Was he though? Was anything untrue said my fellow line walker? You are a known troll. You do create faux moral high grounds.
    Post edited by Nordic on
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
    SquishpokePOOPFACE
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members Posts: 856 Advanced user
    edited April 29
    Kasharic wrote: »
    I don't consider complaining about things endlessly as an attempt to help the game... I don't consider consistently trashing the time and effort the devs put into the game "helpful" because you disagree with the choices.

    Nin seems quite conservative with his critique. If someone was trashing the devs at some point, you might want to point at me :P
    Regarding this patch: I think it's the best the game had seen (except for the early performance improvements).
    But there are points that need complaining; for example the ludicrous GL damage and arbitrary limitation of max players.
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
    NintendowsZEROibisskav2
  • KasharicKasharic Hull, England Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184473Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 683 Advanced user
    edited April 29
    .trixX. wrote: »
    But there are points that need complaining; for example the ludicrous GL damage and arbitrary limitation of max players.

    The GL damage is too high yes.
    The max player count is not an arbitrary change. Go play Overwatch 12 vs 12... oh wait, you can't, because (like ns2) it was designed as a 6 vs 6 game and (unlike ns2) has no higher playercount servers. NS2 was never designed to be played at higher playercounts, hence the large servers being relegated to the arcade tab... the fact that the playercount wasn't reduced to 8 vs 8 or lower is just a demonstration that UWE accepts that some people enjoy larger playercounts and came to a compromise.
    Meph isn't an NSL admin anymore!

    #blameHefty
    Nintendows
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