DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
different software pushes your hardware in different ways.
In your usb polling rate is HIGH then your cpu use will also be HIGH, relative speaking. If your polling rate is LOW, then cpu usage is also LOW.
Now dont see these/high/low as insane huge spikes. Its not. But ns2 is one of the games at the moment wich completely pushes cpu to itx absolute maximum due to like the logics thread. So where other games give your computer cpu to spare, ns2 wants it all because it uses it all.
So the polling rate starts to matter.
I have a i7 930 which is quite strong, so I can keep a high polling rate next to ns2 pushing onwards.
Now do not get me wrong. ns2 is not wrong in asking cpu power, thats what it should do, what any power should do. And windows is doing what its supposed to, priorising cpu power. The total cpu power needed was just more then you had.
(fun fact, if you use older ps/2 this issue does not exist)
Additional info:
If you have a gaming mouse you can install mouse software from your manufacturer in many cases. One of the settings you are usually able to change is polling rate. Bonus point is these drivers are whql/signed. Thats means more rigorous testing, less abuse and a lesser chance to have your windows panic and go in bluescreen.
Probably not a problem for you, but just saying. Wont harm to check aye?
The weird part is I've got an i5 2500. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly sure an i5 2500 is more powerful than an i7 930.
But according to you, NS2 is using so much processing power that it's literally dominating all the other processes, including mouse functionality which in the end hurts performance. That sounds like something the developers should address to ensure that there's enough cycles for mouse polling. This way people won't go mad and quit the game out of frustration. I was "this" close to flipping the table and leaving NS2 for good.
PS/2 eh? I wonder if running my mouse through a a ps/2 adapter would improve things further.
Running through ps/2 is more responsive than usb(due to how interruptions work), however is ps/2 the mouse only polls at 125hz so in the end it's very choppy and unsmooth, however it's more responsive. A keyboard is something you should use in a ps/2 slot though
3 cores I heard. One for each thread: render, client, predict. It's a limitation of Lua which doesn't allow for true multithreading. Which is good and bad.
I also heard 2 cores, closer to 1.5 though, since the logic thread is so much larger than the render thread. I wonder if you have a quad core this means you can keep polling at 1000hz since you still have 2 untapped cores. I seem to have no issues with it.
Setting my polling rate back to 1000hz doesn't seem to reproduce the issue. Which is incredibly frustrating that I can't reproduce it now. This leads me to think that it isn't simply down to polling rate but something else.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
ns2 has 3 or 4 threads last I remember, so technicly should be able to run on as many cores.
But in almost every case a cpu realises its best to shove it on 1 or 2 cores and simply turboboost (soft overclock) the one core left.
So if I run ns2, my 4 core, 8 threads cpu will effectively use 1 core and overlock it.
@Ironsoul
depends. You have more Ghz but my CPUs memory bandwidth is larger. Also a bit more cache and different instructions. So all boils down to 'what does it use'.
But yes, you're i5 should not max out on cpu on its usb so lets blaim something else.
Also not every usb mouse or keyboard CAN work on ps/2 correctly anymore. has to do with the keyboard/mouse itself.
Did you check 'polution' on your usb from different usb hardware?
if two usb devices is too much then I should just give up now. I got a playstation 3 controller and the mouse plugged into a hub right now. But as I said this problem has been happening for quite some time regardless of the set up. I think it was a software configuration issue.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
Wow... dont get me wrong on the usb polution.
I did not mean 2 usb devices are to much. I ment that they can and will interfere with other usb devices.
Think either broken hardware and/or suck drivers for the usb hardware in question. Installing non MS drivers but the manufacturer drivers is usually a good step forward in this regard.
I'm stunned, because I've had this problem for such a long time I genuinely thought it was a problem with NS2.
This is my experience with about 80% of tech support users.. they are so so sure that its nothing on their end almost every time :-P
The problem exists more for NS2 than other games because NS2 is highly CPU intensive.. much more than almost any game i can recommend. (i have even begun to recommend it over prime95 in some cases lol)
And since polling rates are just added CPU cycles, it makes sense that its interrupting typical operations and delaying frames.
The most common google searches on polling rates yields this exact symptom
If you start getting issues with anything again, my first recommendation is to assume its MSI afterburner's overlays.. ns2 does not play well with overlays.
Thank you very much for providing your solution!
Edit: I see i am late to responding. hehe..
I would never plug a gaming mouse into a USB hub that may or may not come with added latencies..
If you cannot reproduce it with polling rate increase (be sure you restarted to take effect), it may just have been the drivers used.
No problem @Ironsoul - glad that fixed it for you!
I can guess why this is happening.
With polling at 1000, your Mouse gets huge priority CPU time over NS2 because it's a system device. NS2 is a CPU intensive game, and so your PC is too busy making the mouse move as a priority because it has to send that info to NS2.
Once you lower your polling rate to 500 or below, that's literally HALF the CPU time needed for mouse movement, which NS2 eats up like a puppy and sausage.
Here's what seems to have done it: installing an unsigned mouse driver designed for competetive gamers. Then uninstalling the driver didn't re-break things which is strange.
Obraxis suggested I try to use a polling rate program from some sort of quake oriented competetive website.
P.S. Oh computers, how wonderfully awful you can be. Stuff like this makes me want to go back to console gaming, I'll try to stay with PC though.
You optimized your input latency on PC. Nothing can fix the high latency that is common in console games.
Yeah but I since removed the driver which would theoretically undo any optimisations. Problem is still for all intents and purposes gone.
Windows 7 home premium 64 bit and logitech g9x. I've also done tests with other mice but before "fixing the problem" all mice and all ports had the same problem.
Here's what seems to have done it: installing an unsigned mouse driver designed for competetive gamers. Then uninstalling the driver didn't re-break things which is strange.
you missed the point of his reply, i think. you never actually said or linked to what you used, thus others who may be suffering from the problem continue to suffer.
Has anyone done a test on perceived mouse latency? At which MS latency do most users starts to feel the "mouse lag" effect? I'm sure there's been research on this subject somewhere.
I'm having a similar issue, my keyboard input is severely lagged all of a sudden. It was fine before, but now it takes almost 15 seconds for the game to register an input.
Comments
In your usb polling rate is HIGH then your cpu use will also be HIGH, relative speaking. If your polling rate is LOW, then cpu usage is also LOW.
Now dont see these/high/low as insane huge spikes. Its not. But ns2 is one of the games at the moment wich completely pushes cpu to itx absolute maximum due to like the logics thread. So where other games give your computer cpu to spare, ns2 wants it all because it uses it all.
So the polling rate starts to matter.
I have a i7 930 which is quite strong, so I can keep a high polling rate next to ns2 pushing onwards.
Now do not get me wrong. ns2 is not wrong in asking cpu power, thats what it should do, what any power should do. And windows is doing what its supposed to, priorising cpu power. The total cpu power needed was just more then you had.
(fun fact, if you use older ps/2 this issue does not exist)
Additional info:
If you have a gaming mouse you can install mouse software from your manufacturer in many cases. One of the settings you are usually able to change is polling rate. Bonus point is these drivers are whql/signed. Thats means more rigorous testing, less abuse and a lesser chance to have your windows panic and go in bluescreen.
Probably not a problem for you, but just saying. Wont harm to check aye?
The weird part is I've got an i5 2500. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly sure an i5 2500 is more powerful than an i7 930.
But according to you, NS2 is using so much processing power that it's literally dominating all the other processes, including mouse functionality which in the end hurts performance. That sounds like something the developers should address to ensure that there's enough cycles for mouse polling. This way people won't go mad and quit the game out of frustration. I was "this" close to flipping the table and leaving NS2 for good.
PS/2 eh? I wonder if running my mouse through a a ps/2 adapter would improve things further.
Also afaik ns2 doesn't utilize more than 2 cores
But in almost every case a cpu realises its best to shove it on 1 or 2 cores and simply turboboost (soft overclock) the one core left.
So if I run ns2, my 4 core, 8 threads cpu will effectively use 1 core and overlock it.
@Ironsoul
depends. You have more Ghz but my CPUs memory bandwidth is larger. Also a bit more cache and different instructions. So all boils down to 'what does it use'.
But yes, you're i5 should not max out on cpu on its usb so lets blaim something else.
Also not every usb mouse or keyboard CAN work on ps/2 correctly anymore. has to do with the keyboard/mouse itself.
Did you check 'polution' on your usb from different usb hardware?
I did not mean 2 usb devices are to much. I ment that they can and will interfere with other usb devices.
Think either broken hardware and/or suck drivers for the usb hardware in question. Installing non MS drivers but the manufacturer drivers is usually a good step forward in this regard.
The problem exists more for NS2 than other games because NS2 is highly CPU intensive.. much more than almost any game i can recommend. (i have even begun to recommend it over prime95 in some cases lol)
And since polling rates are just added CPU cycles, it makes sense that its interrupting typical operations and delaying frames.
The most common google searches on polling rates yields this exact symptom
If you start getting issues with anything again, my first recommendation is to assume its MSI afterburner's overlays.. ns2 does not play well with overlays.
Thank you very much for providing your solution!
Edit: I see i am late to responding. hehe..
I would never plug a gaming mouse into a USB hub that may or may not come with added latencies..
If you cannot reproduce it with polling rate increase (be sure you restarted to take effect), it may just have been the drivers used.
I can guess why this is happening.
With polling at 1000, your Mouse gets huge priority CPU time over NS2 because it's a system device. NS2 is a CPU intensive game, and so your PC is too busy making the mouse move as a priority because it has to send that info to NS2.
Once you lower your polling rate to 500 or below, that's literally HALF the CPU time needed for mouse movement, which NS2 eats up like a puppy and sausage.
Glad it's all working now!
hah.
Here's what seems to have done it: installing an unsigned mouse driver designed for competetive gamers. Then uninstalling the driver didn't re-break things which is strange.
What mouse and OS are you using?
Windows 7 home premium 64 bit and logitech g9x. I've also done tests with other mice but before "fixing the problem" all mice and all ports had the same problem.
you missed the point of his reply, i think. you never actually said or linked to what you used, thus others who may be suffering from the problem continue to suffer.
Not 100% sure, just fairly sure.
looks like it was last year, around 55ish minutes:
Happened to me once...