It wasnt balanced in many ways but I still would say I had more fun in NS1.
It was just done better in terms of gameplay.
I want to say one of the main problems with NS2 is commanding from a gameplay perspective. A lot hangs on two individuals. In NS1, only marines had a comm, and the one saving for Hive was typically a bit more of a pliable role. If NS3 were a thing, I'd remove alien comm again, and focus on marine comm being more fun and much less of a direct support role.
It'd be nice to have a way to heal/restock marines without dropping individual med/ammo packs. I'd guess that the vast majority of a comm's time is spent dropping packs for their marines; causing a decent portion of the difficulty in commanding being the comm's ability to quickly switch between RTSing and direct support.
If someone made a mod that turns the gameplay into classic NS with no com on alien side and the ability to build anywhere, i would definitely try it out. Allowing gorges to drop buildings where they please, create another building that spawns eggs or have the egg itself be the building, untying winning conditions from killing hives, having only tech/biomass tied to having hives, using hives to change their view into a drifters view so they can move around as the drifter in first person giving support where need and then switching back to their gorge when drifter support is not necessary. Ending the game through killing all spawn points and people left instead of chairs and hives. The amount of work needed to create that seems astronomical though.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
NS1 marine comm also was more than a buff bot.
You could not get a single item without the commander. Nothing.
So you had 2 options.
- Eject the comm and get another who wild give you shinies.
- Listen to the comm and receive shinies.
Commanders with a minimum amount of a clue would feed the players which were most useful. Those meds and shotgun drops? Going to the players doing actual work.
The one receiving nothing? The guy humping the armory for 1min each spawn, never needing the ammo because he would die 2 hallways down.
If someone made a mod that turns the gameplay into classic NS with no com on alien side and the ability to build anywhere, i would definitely try it out. Allowing gorges to drop buildings where they please, create another building that spawns eggs or have the egg itself be the building, untying winning conditions from killing hives, having only tech/biomass tied to having hives, using hives to change their view into a drifters view so they can move around as the drifter in first person giving support where need and then switching back to their gorge when drifter support is not necessary. Ending the game through killing all spawn points and people left instead of chairs and hives. The amount of work needed to create that seems astronomical though.
Years ago there was a mod called nsclassic or something like that, I think that was the intention behind it. No one played it.
You could not get a single item without the commander. Nothing.
So you had 2 options.
- Eject the comm and get another who wild give you shinies.
- Listen to the comm and receive shinies.
Commanders with a minimum amount of a clue would feed the players which were most useful. Those meds and shotgun drops? Going to the players doing actual work.
The one receiving nothing? The guy humping the armory for 1min each spawn, never needing the ammo because he would die 2 hallways down.
I think this was a problem with NS1. I guarantee you that if you were to run an experiment nowadays, the more demanding comm-style of NS1 would lead to many more non-games than the current marine comm style for NS2, similar to how alien players feel with a comm that doesn't know how to cyst. I think the best way to design a commander is to essentially create a different objective based system than those on the ground.
For similar examples: Dystopia managed to have a really cool "hacking" objective for some players which others never interacted with, it was specific to the class and required the non-virtual dudes to protect you while you jacked in. Basically you were some VIP that required everybody else to support you. Symbiotic support on both sides. In NS2 it's not that commanding isn't intuitive, I think it's that the support is too one-sided. RFK actually helped alleviate that, by allowing a good team to support the comm. It wasn't great and lead to lots of stomps, but it did help that balancing act of support.
FrozenNew York, NYJoin Date: 2010-07-02Member: 72228Members, Constellation
Well atleast in ns1 marines dropped their lmg so i could take their ammo when the comm was bad. Ns2 couldnt even handle that because they can't separate dying from buying a shotgun
Talk of ammo reminded me. Couldn't you drop half of your ammo to a buddy in NS?
Any ammo that you were carrying would spawn as a separate entity when you dropped the weapon. Players often dropped their weapon so that another player that was carrying the same type of gun could use the surplus ammo to reload their own weapon.
Talk of ammo reminded me. Couldn't you drop half of your ammo to a buddy in NS?
Any ammo that you were carrying would spawn as a separate entity when you dropped the weapon. Players often dropped their weapon so that another player that was carrying the same type of gun could use the surplus ammo to reload their own weapon.
This is still the case, though "often" might not be true. The difference is surplus ammo is WASTED on death.
1) /stuck out of the map
2) build mass dc in secret room
3) build sensory chamber when mcs was voted
4) climb ladders with onos
5) bile bomb below double res on ns_veil
6) use attacked hive when onos try mc escape
7) mass crash server by squeezing elevator on ns_bast
8) elevator trapping teammate lifeforms
9) chamber into hive glitching from above
10) solo kill onos with hmg
11) block main door ns_siege
11) dogo's failcommanding
12) offense chamber tower to the upper level
1) /stuck out of the map
2) build mass dc in secret room
3) build sensory chamber when mcs was voted
4) climb ladders with onos
5) bile bomb below double res on ns_veil
6) use attacked hive when onos try mc escape
7) mass crash server by squeezing elevator on ns_bast
8) elevator trapping teammate lifeforms
9) chamber into hive glitching from above
10) solo kill onos with hmg
11) block main door ns_siege
11) dogo's failcommanding
I got some videos of me doing all of the above on wonga
I wish I had a good computer back in the day so I could record all the things I did back in NS1. But all I had was my craptop that could barely run anything lol. The first time trying to run Ns2 and my laptop ran amazing as a slideshow.
Also Gorge offensive chambers were so OP in NS1. 3 chambers + a gorge could hold off a few marines. In NS2 3 gorges + 9 or more hydras can barely hold back 2 marines. I know. I watched it happen in Veil yesterday in Skylights. Hydras need more HP or shoot more often otherwise they are much outclassed by whips.
I wish I had a good computer back in the day so I could record all the things I did back in NS1. But all I had was my craptop that could barely run anything lol. The first time trying to run Ns2 and my laptop ran amazing as a slideshow.
Also Gorge offensive chambers were so OP in NS1. 3 chambers + a gorge could hold off a few marines. In NS2 3 gorges + 9 or more hydras can barely hold back 2 marines. I know. I watched it happen in Veil yesterday in Skylights. Hydras need more HP or shoot more often otherwise they are much outclassed by whips.
Or you need more imagination/spit/clogmanagement.. 3 gorges that is fucking 90 damage per spit... not even considering hydras 3 gorges could drop 30 clogs.. so easy to make this engagement hell for any marine
My gorge aim is very sub par. But I will counter the clog argument with that once marines get grenades they just melt clogs and hydras. Now gorges with clogs in vents is my nightmare.
Still feel hydras are essentially useless in NS2 after A1 W1 + nades.
It is all skill related. I am not a great gorge but I can hold back three sufficiently low skill marines with clogs and hydras. This is not anything special.
Exactly. Its so fun spitting those marines down who just walk at you and miss all their shots though.
One other thing I miss is the atmosphere from NS1. It seemed very Sci-fi vs NS2 which feels gritty and industrial. Not that there is anything wrong with that. It's just different.
I miss the player base from 2003 NS1. I used to run a server and we had a group of regulars that frequented all the time. Matches were almost always fun, lasted forever, and those friendships carried over to many other games. Many of them were friends before Steam came along, so I have no idea where many of them are these days. Maybe they've given up games for real life.
It's interesting, but back then there was a lot of discussion about whether or not to make the transition to Steam from WON. For those who don't know, NS1 is based off the Half-Life 1 engine, and multiplayer Half-Life 1 was run on the WON network until Valve bought it out. Because I ran a server I had to make the decision as to whether to switch during the Steam beta, and that decision would impact all the regulars since they had to install Steam. After a lot of back and forth, we ultimately decided to make the transition. Steam kinda sucked back then, and it was buggy as hell, but we made it through.
NS1 was simpler and perhaps more accessible - maybe more "arcadey." NS2 is probably harder to pick up for the newcomer with all the added alien stuff. I just played NS2 for the first time recently and I miss the simplistic trio of upgrade chambers, no alien comm, hives directly correlated to new abilities, no biomass, etc. Slowly getting used to it all, but that comes to mind first as to what I miss. And CC's in vents.
NS1 was simpler and perhaps more accessible - maybe more "arcadey." NS2 is probably harder to pick up for the newcomer with all the added alien stuff. I just played NS2 for the first time recently and I miss the simplistic trio of upgrade chambers, no alien comm, hives directly correlated to new abilities, no biomass, etc. Slowly getting used to it all, but that comes to mind first as to what I miss. And CC's in vents.
Just reminiscing here, but I really disliked the NS1 mode of res usage. Alien success was wholly dependent on players sacrificing their res to build for the common good. Someone had to agree to go gorge early on and devote their res to building harvesters. Someone else had to build the upgrade chambers, then that initial gorge had to sit around and collect enough res to build a hive, typically by being lifted up into a vent by a fellow skulk to hide from the marines. They had no other abilities, so it was a lowly position to be in. Since skulk lifting into a vent was the status quo, it was often some marine's duty to buy mines and create a mine ladder into the vent system at the most likely expansion hive in order to hunt that gorge. The whole thing was inefficient.
And don't even get me started on CCs in vents... I still remember games on ns_nancy near noname hive where the marines would drop a CC in the junction of those massively long vents. Onos couldn't enter, and the tunnels were so long just a pair of JP/HMG marines could defend indefinitely if they build an armory there. The struggle was real!
And don't even get me started on CCs in vents... I still remember games on ns_nancy near noname hive where the marines would drop a CC in the junction of those massively long vents. Onos couldn't enter, and the tunnels were so long just a pair of JP/HMG marines could defend indefinitely if they build an armory there. The struggle was real!
*has PTSD flashbacks and convulses on floor thinking about vent CC's*
I miss the player base from 2003 NS1. I used to run a server and we had a group of regulars that frequented all the time. Matches were almost always fun, lasted forever, and those friendships carried over to many other games. Many of them were friends before Steam came along, so I have no idea where many of them are these days. Maybe they've given up games for real life.
It's interesting, but back then there was a lot of discussion about whether or not to make the transition to Steam from WON. For those who don't know, NS1 is based off the Half-Life 1 engine, and multiplayer Half-Life 1 was run on the WON network until Valve bought it out. Because I ran a server I had to make the decision as to whether to switch during the Steam beta, and that decision would impact all the regulars since they had to install Steam. After a lot of back and forth, we ultimately decided to make the transition. Steam kinda sucked back then, and it was buggy as hell, but we made it through.
Remember the "awesome" version handling they used during WON times
HandschuhJoin Date: 2005-03-08Member: 44338Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Community Developer
edited April 2018
Since ns1 gathers (6vs6) are happening regularly again, you can find all information on Discord (Installation Instruction, Configs, etc.) https://discord.gg/ZUSSBUA
Most of the time people meet up either in Teamspeak 3 (ensl.org) or the old gatherbot on the ENSL Page (The current Link for the current gather will be in the Discord #gather Channel)
Comments
It'd be nice to have a way to heal/restock marines without dropping individual med/ammo packs. I'd guess that the vast majority of a comm's time is spent dropping packs for their marines; causing a decent portion of the difficulty in commanding being the comm's ability to quickly switch between RTSing and direct support.
EDIT: This is an idea Nin had that I didn't like that I am bringing up because I know he it is watching.
It's not aoe but it's close enough.
You could not get a single item without the commander. Nothing.
So you had 2 options.
- Eject the comm and get another who wild give you shinies.
- Listen to the comm and receive shinies.
Commanders with a minimum amount of a clue would feed the players which were most useful. Those meds and shotgun drops? Going to the players doing actual work.
The one receiving nothing? The guy humping the armory for 1min each spawn, never needing the ammo because he would die 2 hallways down.
Years ago there was a mod called nsclassic or something like that, I think that was the intention behind it. No one played it.
Super Meta
I think this was a problem with NS1. I guarantee you that if you were to run an experiment nowadays, the more demanding comm-style of NS1 would lead to many more non-games than the current marine comm style for NS2, similar to how alien players feel with a comm that doesn't know how to cyst. I think the best way to design a commander is to essentially create a different objective based system than those on the ground.
For similar examples: Dystopia managed to have a really cool "hacking" objective for some players which others never interacted with, it was specific to the class and required the non-virtual dudes to protect you while you jacked in. Basically you were some VIP that required everybody else to support you. Symbiotic support on both sides. In NS2 it's not that commanding isn't intuitive, I think it's that the support is too one-sided. RFK actually helped alleviate that, by allowing a good team to support the comm. It wasn't great and lead to lots of stomps, but it did help that balancing act of support.
Any ammo that you were carrying would spawn as a separate entity when you dropped the weapon. Players often dropped their weapon so that another player that was carrying the same type of gun could use the surplus ammo to reload their own weapon.
This is still the case, though "often" might not be true. The difference is surplus ammo is WASTED on death.
Why, yes, monetary compensation is fine
1) /stuck out of the map
2) build mass dc in secret room
3) build sensory chamber when mcs was voted
4) climb ladders with onos
5) bile bomb below double res on ns_veil
6) use attacked hive when onos try mc escape
7) mass crash server by squeezing elevator on ns_bast
8) elevator trapping teammate lifeforms
9) chamber into hive glitching from above
10) solo kill onos with hmg
11) block main door ns_siege
11) dogo's failcommanding
12) offense chamber tower to the upper level
I got some videos of me doing all of the above on wonga
Also Gorge offensive chambers were so OP in NS1. 3 chambers + a gorge could hold off a few marines. In NS2 3 gorges + 9 or more hydras can barely hold back 2 marines. I know. I watched it happen in Veil yesterday in Skylights. Hydras need more HP or shoot more often otherwise they are much outclassed by whips.
Or you need more imagination/spit/clogmanagement.. 3 gorges that is fucking 90 damage per spit... not even considering hydras
Still feel hydras are essentially useless in NS2 after A1 W1 + nades.
One other thing I miss is the atmosphere from NS1. It seemed very Sci-fi vs NS2 which feels gritty and industrial. Not that there is anything wrong with that. It's just different.
It's interesting, but back then there was a lot of discussion about whether or not to make the transition to Steam from WON. For those who don't know, NS1 is based off the Half-Life 1 engine, and multiplayer Half-Life 1 was run on the WON network until Valve bought it out. Because I ran a server I had to make the decision as to whether to switch during the Steam beta, and that decision would impact all the regulars since they had to install Steam. After a lot of back and forth, we ultimately decided to make the transition. Steam kinda sucked back then, and it was buggy as hell, but we made it through.
Just reminiscing here, but I really disliked the NS1 mode of res usage. Alien success was wholly dependent on players sacrificing their res to build for the common good. Someone had to agree to go gorge early on and devote their res to building harvesters. Someone else had to build the upgrade chambers, then that initial gorge had to sit around and collect enough res to build a hive, typically by being lifted up into a vent by a fellow skulk to hide from the marines. They had no other abilities, so it was a lowly position to be in. Since skulk lifting into a vent was the status quo, it was often some marine's duty to buy mines and create a mine ladder into the vent system at the most likely expansion hive in order to hunt that gorge. The whole thing was inefficient.
And don't even get me started on CCs in vents... I still remember games on ns_nancy near noname hive where the marines would drop a CC in the junction of those massively long vents. Onos couldn't enter, and the tunnels were so long just a pair of JP/HMG marines could defend indefinitely if they build an armory there. The struggle was real!
*has PTSD flashbacks and convulses on floor thinking about vent CC's*
Go and "fix" lua as well plz
Remember the "awesome" version handling they used during WON times
HL v1.0.1.2
HL v1.1.0.8
HL v1.1.2.0
HL v1.1.2.2
etc...
You can't fix that which is already perfect.
https://discord.gg/ZUSSBUA
Most of the time people meet up either in Teamspeak 3 (ensl.org) or the old gatherbot on the ENSL Page (The current Link for the current gather will be in the Discord #gather Channel)
WOOOONGAH!