Oh that mod. Remind me again why it wasn't implemented in vanilla?
A lot of people disliked how it made the map darker in some areas. I think the main reason was that people thought it was also incomplete. It was viewed as incomplete because the lighting effects were by room. In some maps, this could make areas darker that weren't even close to the infestation.
KasharicHull, EnglandJoin Date: 2013-03-27Member: 184473Members, Forum Admins, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer
edited July 2017
The issue wasn't the darkness, it was the WAY the darkness was done.
A single cyst inside any location entity made the room unbearably dark, and that gave unfair advantage if you knew how to abuse it... for instance, on Tram, a single cyst in south tunnels or hub made the whole respective room insanely dark... so if aliens spawn in warehouse and cyst a certain way, they can make most of the middle lane of the map pitch black, giving them unfair advantage against the marines.
This is just a very basic example, but every map had rooms that could be hugely exploited through the use of atmospheric lighting... the devs agree, that's why it was removed again... to rework the whole idea would take a lot of time and effort that the devs just can't spare at the moment... But if they were to implement a non-exploitable variant, no one would complain about the light/dark (or at least a lot less people would)... its only because it was severely exploitable that it caused controversy.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
That's why imho you don't need anything from it but the yellow lights. If you don't darken the rooms you can make their radius smaller too to enhance the contrast.
That's why imho you don't need anything from it but the yellow lights. If you don't darken the rooms you can make their radius smaller too to enhance the contrast.
As cool as the rest of that mod was, the bioluminescence was my favorite part.
- Alien health replenishes faster when on infestation.
- Increased cost of ammo drops.
- Marine ability to Drop half of ammo pack for a buddy.
- Pickup a portion of ammo pack from fallen Marines.
- Magical system in place to clean up Steam workshop entrees to correctly categorize the mod type and identify/certify mods that work with most current build.
The lights don't show up nearly as well unless the rest of the room is dark.
What if you increase the intensity and decrease the radius? Having it illuminate nearby players would be cool even if it doesn't show up much on the room geometry.
fix your f*cking bugs. What about that? Sounds good update to me
Feel free to join us in the playtesting team (we are low on numbers after all) where you can report and TEST bug fixes, you'll see how much is actually done backstage that way... I'm sure, once you realise the amount of work that is put in, your anger will be subdued.
The lights don't show up nearly as well unless the rest of the room is dark.
What if you increase the intensity and decrease the radius? Having it illuminate nearby players would be cool even if it doesn't show up much on the room geometry.
OR, just reduce the brightness of lights throughout all the maps without having the darkness tied to the structures being placed... so all maps will be a little darker (Not ridiculously dark ofc) and the intensity of the structure lights can be increased to find a happy medium.
I don't really play the game much anymore but I wanna chime in anyway.
Marines
- Added plasmacanon. A rapidly firing projectile weapon with high damage per second.
- Added rocketlauncher Exo. A high impact high splash damage projectile weapon with slow reload speed.
- Flamethrower firerate increased. Player damage per second is now on par with the light machine gun.
- Added Magnetic wallrunning boots. Researchable at prototypelab.
- Added a CPMA-like doublejump mechanic. (Imagine doing stairjumps in NS2)
Aliens
- Added a new lifeform. (In 3 months, ez pz bros, get on it already) We call it the Scorpion. It's a bipedal creature, with an almost hoodlike figure, and it propels a harpoon-like ability that can hook marines while it screams something that resembles: "Git hold my beer!".
- Added a Warsow-like dash ability to Skulks. (Might resemble leap too much, but idc I think it's cool)
- Removed babblers. They were rookie traps and just general clutter and offered nothing to the game.
- Fixed whips.
- Removed babblers. They were rookie traps and just general clutter and offered nothing to the game.
I don't get this logic... have you ever really used babblers? they provide a fair bit of armor, and can do a ton of damage to marine structures... I kill early game extractors with babblers all the time.
A perfect example of a rookie trap offering nothing to the game would be the current iteration of boneshield.
- Removed babblers. They were rookie traps and just general clutter and offered nothing to the game.
I don't get this logic... have you ever really used babblers? they provide a fair bit of armor, and can do a ton of damage to marine structures... I kill early game extractors with babblers all the time.
A perfect example of a rookie trap offering nothing to the game would be the current iteration of boneshield.
A perfect example of a rookie trap offering nothing to the game would be the current iteration of boneshield.
Awww man, you were so close to forming a great argument... "babbler bait" <--- thats what you were looking for... "remove babbler bait and make the babblers attach to healspray/spit targets."... babbler bait = noob trap... boneshield = good ability with skill ceiling.
New player expects it to act like a shield (since ya know.. boneSHIELD) but their health goes down anyway, then when they turn to run they have no energy to run away... So instead of just running away and surviving they die because they're caught out with low health and no way to escape... sounds like a textbook example of a rookie trap to me...
Babblers attaching via spit/heal would be annoying to control... they would constantly be attaching two teammates you're trying to heal but don't want to put babblers on, and it would be impossible to stick them on an extractor and then fight and distract Marines while you're Babblers are killing the extractor
New player expects it to act like a shield (since ya know.. boneSHIELD) but their health goes down anyway, then when they turn to run they have no energy to run away... So instead of just running away and surviving they die because they're caught out with low health and no way to escape... sounds like a textbook example of a rookie trap to me...
Babblers attaching via spit/heal would be annoying to control... they would constantly be attaching two teammates you're trying to heal but don't want to put babblers on, and it would be impossible to stick them on an extractor and then fight and distract Marines while you're Babblers are killing the extractor
But... it does act like a shield... all they have to do is make the giant mental leap of walking backwards instead of turning around.
New player expects it to act like a shield (since ya know.. boneSHIELD) but their health goes down anyway, then when they turn to run they have no energy to run away... So instead of just running away and surviving they die because they're caught out with low health and no way to escape... sounds like a textbook example of a rookie trap to me...
Then people should stop expecting things and start to read what it does. Also it acts like a shield. You take a lot less damage when used. And yes, when they don't have energy to Sprint then, they hopefully learned that you have to manage your energy consumption.
^^ the above posts are a good example of the unfortunate "git gud" type of elitist mentality many members of the NS2 community have...
Rookies should just manage energy consumption better and at the same time intuitively know how quickly their health will still go down while using it. (Thus how early they need to disengage and run)
It's not like I haven't adjusted to the change and keep dying as onos. I simply don't use it and I still do just fine.
It's not like I'm suggesting anything even remotely like bringing back the heal or making it similarly op in another way.
And I'm clearly not referring to situations where the onos is facing away from the marines.
But of course the only reason for anyone to complain about it being useless must be because they suck at onos right? It couldn't possibly be wanting the skill to be useful without needing to have full hp AND energy.
Or wanting it to be useful for both rookie and pro players, instead of really only being useful for the best of the best.
Or heaven forbid wanting the strategy of trying to block their shots and time your rush with the recharge/cool down (Or likewise not shoot when you see boneshield go up) added to the Exo vs Onos battles
- First start with a dash of insults to experienced players -
- Swiftly follow insults with factless arguments filled with anecdotal evidence and heaps of snark. -
(Note: be sure to stir at this point or ingredients will curdle.)
- Drizzle with dissimiles for added Spice
- Add a touch of rhetoric that wasn't relevant to any part of the previous comments -
- And finally top off with self involved, unrelated drivel with a pinch of sarcasm for added flavour. -
(allow to sit for at least 8 hours before editing)
Maybe.... Just maybe, as crazy as it may seem... People just disagree with you. (Mind = Blown.)
I don't consider myself a good player at NS2 and I never have... I'm not an elitist, i'm not a tryhard and I'm not even a regular player anymore, I play once a week for a few hours, tops.
If I can see the flaw in your argument, then surely you must too. Let me explain.
Boneshield is NOT a noobtrap (keep reading), it has explanations in game of what it does, and it does exactly what it says... you cannot handhold everything and make every single skill immediately 100% useful to rookies (I know you want to argue here, but stay on track, stick to the point.), some things will take time to learn, having a learning curve is NOT the same as a noobtrap.
Noobtrap = Something you believe would act or logically "should" act in one way, but instead works in a different way.
Learning curve = Something that acts as it says it does, but will require time to learn how effective it is at its job.
Don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying that boneshield is great, i'm not saying that you should use it, I'm not trying to convince you that boneshield is fine as it is... I'm talking about if it is a noobtrap or not.
noobtrap = Babblerbait being on a WEAPON SLOT, but doing ZERO damage... it literally has no effect unless you have babblers present... and nowhere does it explain that effectively.
Learning curve = Boneshield... tell me again what boneshield does in game?
on thats right... its explained in game at the press of a button...
Feel free to argue, but be aware, this isn't a "git gud" mentality, its a "you cannot expect to understand 100% of a complex game such as NS2 in a few rounds." mentality.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
I do think the NS1 UI for energy and health was much better. I can imagine new players not even noticing energy and not realizing why their attacks aren't working. Much better when it was a giant bar you could read by color with your peripheral vision.
Feel free to argue, but be aware, this isn't a "git gud" mentality, its a "you cannot expect to understand 100% of a complex game such as NS2 in a few rounds." mentality.
Saying things like "make a giant mental leap of walking backwards" and "just manage energy better" are very clearly a "git gud" mentality.. how anyone could argue otherwise is a complete mystery.
Feel free to argue, but be aware, this isn't a "git gud" mentality, its a "you cannot expect to understand 100% of a complex game such as NS2 in a few rounds." mentality.
Saying things like "make a giant mental leap of walking backwards" and "just manage energy better" are very clearly a "git gud" mentality.. how anyone could argue otherwise is a complete mystery.
2 things.
1. Feel free to show me where I said anything like that at all. I don't assume to speak for others, so please don't assume that they speak for me.
2. Try to keep on topic, the debate you and I are having is one of "is boneshield a noobtrap" not one of "did other people act elitist"
Feel free to argue, but be aware, this isn't a "git gud" mentality, its a "you cannot expect to understand 100% of a complex game such as NS2 in a few rounds." mentality.
Saying things like "make a giant mental leap of walking backwards" and "just manage energy better" are very clearly a "git gud" mentality.. how anyone could argue otherwise is a complete mystery.
"Git gud" means there is room for improvement, it means you can develop your skill. I can't understand how some people think that this is a Bad thing.
Nobody would have a problem with NS2 being more intuitive at some aspects, but What you want is a drastically reduced skill ceiling to help rookies compete with vets which is completely against the idea of competition.
If you just want to play your RPG Single player Space marine adventure game, NS2 probably isn't for you. It is a PVP mutliplayer game.
Comments
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=579396696&searchtext=atmospheric
Screenshot: https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/566666c53b0852e71974f950/1920x1080/ed4e165079eaf54d25a0bb6a3fdb45bd/pV1Ag.jpg
People couldn't see properly.
Although mostly the ones that use their own mod to fix everything they don't like, anyway.
edit: The size code doesn't work anymore? Well, just imagine the second line really, really small.
A lot of people disliked how it made the map darker in some areas. I think the main reason was that people thought it was also incomplete. It was viewed as incomplete because the lighting effects were by room. In some maps, this could make areas darker that weren't even close to the infestation.
A single cyst inside any location entity made the room unbearably dark, and that gave unfair advantage if you knew how to abuse it... for instance, on Tram, a single cyst in south tunnels or hub made the whole respective room insanely dark... so if aliens spawn in warehouse and cyst a certain way, they can make most of the middle lane of the map pitch black, giving them unfair advantage against the marines.
This is just a very basic example, but every map had rooms that could be hugely exploited through the use of atmospheric lighting... the devs agree, that's why it was removed again... to rework the whole idea would take a lot of time and effort that the devs just can't spare at the moment... But if they were to implement a non-exploitable variant, no one would complain about the light/dark (or at least a lot less people would)... its only because it was severely exploitable that it caused controversy.
As cool as the rest of that mod was, the bioluminescence was my favorite part.
- Increased cost of ammo drops.
- Marine ability to Drop half of ammo pack for a buddy.
- Pickup a portion of ammo pack from fallen Marines.
- Magical system in place to clean up Steam workshop entrees to correctly categorize the mod type and identify/certify mods that work with most current build.
What if you increase the intensity and decrease the radius? Having it illuminate nearby players would be cool even if it doesn't show up much on the room geometry.
Feel free to join us in the playtesting team (we are low on numbers after all) where you can report and TEST bug fixes, you'll see how much is actually done backstage that way... I'm sure, once you realise the amount of work that is put in, your anger will be subdued.
OR, just reduce the brightness of lights throughout all the maps without having the darkness tied to the structures being placed... so all maps will be a little darker (Not ridiculously dark ofc) and the intensity of the structure lights can be increased to find a happy medium.
Marines
- Added plasmacanon. A rapidly firing projectile weapon with high damage per second.
- Added rocketlauncher Exo. A high impact high splash damage projectile weapon with slow reload speed.
- Flamethrower firerate increased. Player damage per second is now on par with the light machine gun.
- Added Magnetic wallrunning boots. Researchable at prototypelab.
- Added a CPMA-like doublejump mechanic. (Imagine doing stairjumps in NS2)
Aliens
- Added a new lifeform. (In 3 months, ez pz bros, get on it already) We call it the Scorpion. It's a bipedal creature, with an almost hoodlike figure, and it propels a harpoon-like ability that can hook marines while it screams something that resembles: "Git hold my beer!".
- Added a Warsow-like dash ability to Skulks. (Might resemble leap too much, but idc I think it's cool)
- Removed babblers. They were rookie traps and just general clutter and offered nothing to the game.
- Fixed whips.
(ok this is a very old one
I don't get this logic... have you ever really used babblers? they provide a fair bit of armor, and can do a ton of damage to marine structures... I kill early game extractors with babblers all the time.
A perfect example of a rookie trap offering nothing to the game would be the current iteration of boneshield.
Wait... what?
I was so close to agreeing with you mofo1!
yes, 100% yes, totally agree.
Awww man, you were so close to forming a great argument... "babbler bait" <--- thats what you were looking for... "remove babbler bait and make the babblers attach to healspray/spit targets."... babbler bait = noob trap... boneshield = good ability with skill ceiling.
New player expects it to act like a shield (since ya know.. boneSHIELD) but their health goes down anyway, then when they turn to run they have no energy to run away... So instead of just running away and surviving they die because they're caught out with low health and no way to escape... sounds like a textbook example of a rookie trap to me...
Babblers attaching via spit/heal would be annoying to control... they would constantly be attaching two teammates you're trying to heal but don't want to put babblers on, and it would be impossible to stick them on an extractor and then fight and distract Marines while you're Babblers are killing the extractor
But... it does act like a shield... all they have to do is make the giant mental leap of walking backwards instead of turning around.
Then people should stop expecting things and start to read what it does. Also it acts like a shield. You take a lot less damage when used. And yes, when they don't have energy to Sprint then, they hopefully learned that you have to manage your energy consumption.
Rookies should just manage energy consumption better and at the same time intuitively know how quickly their health will still go down while using it. (Thus how early they need to disengage and run)
It's not like I haven't adjusted to the change and keep dying as onos. I simply don't use it and I still do just fine.
It's not like I'm suggesting anything even remotely like bringing back the heal or making it similarly op in another way.
And I'm clearly not referring to situations where the onos is facing away from the marines.
But of course the only reason for anyone to complain about it being useless must be because they suck at onos right? It couldn't possibly be wanting the skill to be useful without needing to have full hp AND energy.
Or wanting it to be useful for both rookie and pro players, instead of really only being useful for the best of the best.
Or heaven forbid wanting the strategy of trying to block their shots and time your rush with the recharge/cool down (Or likewise not shoot when you see boneshield go up) added to the Exo vs Onos battles
Maybe.... Just maybe, as crazy as it may seem... People just disagree with you. (Mind = Blown.)
I don't consider myself a good player at NS2 and I never have... I'm not an elitist, i'm not a tryhard and I'm not even a regular player anymore, I play once a week for a few hours, tops.
If I can see the flaw in your argument, then surely you must too. Let me explain.
Boneshield is NOT a noobtrap (keep reading), it has explanations in game of what it does, and it does exactly what it says... you cannot handhold everything and make every single skill immediately 100% useful to rookies (I know you want to argue here, but stay on track, stick to the point.), some things will take time to learn, having a learning curve is NOT the same as a noobtrap.
Noobtrap = Something you believe would act or logically "should" act in one way, but instead works in a different way.
Learning curve = Something that acts as it says it does, but will require time to learn how effective it is at its job.
Don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying that boneshield is great, i'm not saying that you should use it, I'm not trying to convince you that boneshield is fine as it is... I'm talking about if it is a noobtrap or not.
noobtrap = Babblerbait being on a WEAPON SLOT, but doing ZERO damage... it literally has no effect unless you have babblers present... and nowhere does it explain that effectively.
Learning curve = Boneshield... tell me again what boneshield does in game?
Feel free to argue, but be aware, this isn't a "git gud" mentality, its a "you cannot expect to understand 100% of a complex game such as NS2 in a few rounds." mentality.
Saying things like "make a giant mental leap of walking backwards" and "just manage energy better" are very clearly a "git gud" mentality.. how anyone could argue otherwise is a complete mystery.
2 things.
1. Feel free to show me where I said anything like that at all. I don't assume to speak for others, so please don't assume that they speak for me.
2. Try to keep on topic, the debate you and I are having is one of "is boneshield a noobtrap" not one of "did other people act elitist"
"Git gud" means there is room for improvement, it means you can develop your skill. I can't understand how some people think that this is a Bad thing.
Nobody would have a problem with NS2 being more intuitive at some aspects, but What you want is a drastically reduced skill ceiling to help rookies compete with vets which is completely against the idea of competition.
If you just want to play your RPG Single player Space marine adventure game, NS2 probably isn't for you. It is a PVP mutliplayer game.