A bright future of NS2 or Death?

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  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The NetherlandsMembers, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Posts: 15,782 Advanced user
    Pregame does give the vibe of "OI let's fool around until the game starts" though. Good intention aside of what it's intended purpose is, dem fools be fooling around yo :tongue:

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" 

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly

    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue | 102 1HP Skulk escapes and counting

    .trixX.IeptBarakat
  • _Grendel__Grendel_ Members Join Date: 2015-05-07 Member: 204238Posts: 87 Advanced user
    edited February 2017
    dePARA wrote: »
    **some one-sided garbage view**

    That comparison is laughable. *snip* who can't see past your own jaded views.

    Post edited by IronHorse on
    MoFo1
  • dePARAdePARA Members, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Posts: 1,351 Advanced user
    edited January 2017
    Hahahaaaahahaaahahaahaaa

    Did you ever played combat? Its exact what Mr. "My idea will save NS2" want.
    image
  • RevanCoranaRevanCorana Members Join Date: 2015-08-14 Member: 207125Posts: 571 Advanced user
    I vote fore free2play
    A big influx of newbies would allow skill segregation matchmaking fixing skill gap issue making it more enjoyable for everyone.

    Ns2 free2play will not become abusive paytowin automatically calm your ponies.
  • ZdrytchXZdrytchX AustraliaMembers Join Date: 2016-02-06 Member: 212662Posts: 101 Advanced user
    edited January 2017
    I vote free to play as well. None of my games on steam have been bought by myself, without the gift key from my Tremulous gaming clan, Knights of Reason, I wouldn't be playing NS2 even now unless I got gifted by a developer like I did for NS2: Combat.

    Current NS2 numbers doesn't even compare to what Tremulous (free, open sourced aliens vs human shooter) had when they became 4 years old.

    Current steam graphs for NS2 4 years after stat tracking started in late 2012, making Sept 2016 the 4 year anniversary of the stat tracking.

    http://steamcharts.com/app/4920#All

    ns2 had about 500 peak players on September 2016, compared to the maximum in November 2012 of 7000 peak players , or an average of 200 compared to the maximum peak of 2800 average players.

    That's pretty poor player retention compared to Tremulous when you look at this graph, which had a peak of about 6000 average unique players in a day, with 4 years later after stat tracking began, becoming 2500 unique players.

    pVNJJTL.png

    As proof of player retention, Tremulous still has games daily, even right now the game has 13 players distributed on two servers. I don't even have to check NS2, but I bet that's more than the total current number of players currently on all NS1, NS2 Combat, Russian NS2 servers, Active Japan servers AND AusNS2 servers combined RIGHT NOW.
  • .trixX..trixX. BudapestMembers Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Posts: 862 Advanced user
    edited January 2017
    ZdrytchX wrote: »
    ... free, open sourced aliens vs human shooter) had when they became 4 years old.

    You see, this is where your comparison fails. And no, im pretty sure NS2 (only) has more players than trem at any given time, 13 players barely fill a single server in NS2.

    And f2p is not an option in a game where you have to THINK to play it properly. I'd rather not listen to 13yo kids screaming about losing their lerks to 2 shotties.
    quality > quantity

    @_Grendel_ since when does sound advice count as elitism? :D
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
    coolitic
  • dePARAdePARA Members, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Posts: 1,351 Advanced user
    edited January 2017
    And the Tremulous player comparison fails on another level.
    10 years ago steam was 3 years up and far away from what it is now.
    http://kotaku.com/steam-is-10-today-remember-when-it-sucked-1297594444

    2008 was the start of the steam marketplace.
    Today you have access to thousands of games, one click and you can play them 5 min later.
    If you dont like a game, well. No problem, give it back and download another one within 5 min.
    So today game developers have a great platform to distribute there games but on the other hand this platform can be the curse for them cause they have to compete against countless other titles.

    As i said before:
    there is a Tremulous clone coming soon to steam called Murnatan
    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=800465209
    Im sure this game will have a hard time cause the reasons i posted here.

    So comparing playercounts from the pre-Steam aera with current ones is kinda stupid.
    Compare it with similar games (Asymmetric shooter with maybe RTS elements) and you see that NS2 is doing fine:
    http://steamcharts.com/app/273350
    http://steamcharts.com/app/366440
    http://steamcharts.com/app/17710
    http://steamcharts.com/app/274940
    http://steamcharts.com/app/321360
    http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=188531&p=2209050#post2209050

    Post edited by dePARA on
    image
    Kashariccoolitic
  • pagulhanpagulhan Members Join Date: 2013-08-03 Member: 186529Posts: 15 Fully active user
    Sorry but lol.
    People live for such a short time. Don't waste yours on writing lolposts man.
    but the weapons can be recycled by your teammates
    You mean someone takes if after your death. Well, you still lose it, don't you? It stays with your team but not with you.
    your problem is with LEARNING the system.
    Yeah, perhaps I used another words but that's true. For now new players have to learn a lot before they start enjoying the game (specifically, they have to stop dying). It's good to hear you want to make learning curve easier to deal with.
    But please, stop blaming a good system for a big learning curve, and for the love of god, stop saying the best thing to do is to make it easier... easier to learn yes... easier to play no.
    You missed my point. What I suggest is not making the learning curve lower but less painful so new players don't get irritated. Learning doesn't have to make you feel bad.
    Also, as a side note... there have been posts saying "this game is dead" or "this game is dying" for the past 3 years... if it is dying, its doing it VERY slowly, and its not going down without a fight.
    I'd make a joke about overzealous treatment but you know, I won't.
    I know you're still pretty new to NS2, its clear by some of the things you're suggesting
    I've got like 350 hours in since 2013 but yeah, I don't play like everyday. I come back from time to time (like now) and keep finding it you... well, you can't be bad to enjoy ns2 properly. Like if you're bad, you die. You die, you meet your rifle friend again. You're good, you get access to so much more. I just think the differance between being good and being bad is too high in terms of possibilities you have: a bad player is not only worse than a good one, their weapon is also worse as they cannot live long enough to make a good use of it.
  • dePARAdePARA Members, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Posts: 1,351 Advanced user
    Looks like you dont understand the roles of the weapons.
    Like Lifeforms have a role (skulk: resbiting/scouting, lerk: area denie/support, fade: rinekiller, Onos:meatshield) every gun a role.
    Thats part of the game.

    And if people whining and quitting the game cause they die and lose there gun, well, maybe NS2 is not there game.
    Can happen, i bought Titanfall2 recently but for me it was a horrible multiplayer experience. Refund and thats it.

    And again, a Tremulous clone is coming to steam soon and we have NS2 Combat. So play the one or the other but ffs stop with your "Tremolous did everything right, it was so awesome. Lets transform NS2 into it".
    NS2 is NS2 and thats why people play and love it.
    You love Tremulous? Then play it.

    In a half year i will necro this thread again and post the playercounts of Murnatan here.
    Lets see what game has more players then.
    image
    coolitic
  • pagulhanpagulhan Members Join Date: 2013-08-03 Member: 186529Posts: 15 Fully active user
    Like Lifeforms have a role (skulk: resbiting/scouting, lerk: area denie/support, fade: rinekiller, Onos:meatshield) every gun a role.
    Thats part of the game.
    Yeah. Just like in every other game out there where you're not limited to one gun I suppose. Please don't think ns2's unique about that.
    And if people whining and quitting the game cause they die and lose there gun, well, maybe NS2 is not there game.
    Maybe you're right but I believe this is the exact reason this thread exists: how to prevent quitting the game.

    I won't comment the latter part of your post as I already explained 3 times in a row it's not my intention to make another tremulous but you clearly don't bother to either read or to understande.
  • dePARAdePARA Members, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Posts: 1,351 Advanced user
    edited February 2017
    pagulhan wrote: »
    ]Maybe you're right but I believe this is the exact reason this thread exists: how to prevent quitting the game.

    You cant, so simple is that.
    If people dont like a game for whatever reason, they quit.
    There is no miracle "lets make everyone happy" option.

    If people have bad aim, they getting wrecked. Doesnt matter if they run around with an shotgun nonstop.
    If people dont understand the meta game, they lose nonstop.

    Why is noone playing arena shooters anymore?
    There simple, fast paced, nonstop action.
    Cause dumbed down games like CoD and others had influence on multiple generations of gamers.
    NS2 is more a oldschool game and thats why NS2 will never have a large playerbase.

    Here is a video of Fatal1ty playing Toxxic and they discuss why noone is playing arena shooters anymore around 04:00 min mark: I think these guys nailed it.

    Is the solution to dumbdown every game so its super casual friendly? Hope not.
    image
    antoucoolitic
  • RevanCoranaRevanCorana Members Join Date: 2015-08-14 Member: 207125Posts: 571 Advanced user
    Depara youre spewing so much nonsense per post it's really impressive
  • dePARAdePARA Members, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Posts: 1,351 Advanced user
    I cant top your nonsense:
    I vote fore free2play
    A big influx of newbies would allow skill segregation matchmaking fixing skill gap issue making it more enjoyable for everyone..

    image
    .trixX.Kouji_Sancoolitic
  • RevanCoranaRevanCorana Members Join Date: 2015-08-14 Member: 207125Posts: 571 Advanced user
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The NetherlandsMembers, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Posts: 15,782 Advanced user
    5.gif


    *slowly backs away from thread*

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" 

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly

    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue | 102 1HP Skulk escapes and counting

    .trixX.
  • MephillesMephilles GermanyMembers, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Posts: 972 Advanced user
    @dePARA you might remember that ns2 combat was grat for that while it was still a mod in ns2. However combat alone is not enough to survive as a game. It is a good gamemode though.

    Introducing a gamemode that does something similar would probably help alot, especially for a training environment.
    return to zero
    SantaClaws.trixX.
  • maD_maX_maD_maX_ Members Join Date: 2013-04-07 Member: 184678Posts: 470 Advanced user
    I think the question is "do I, you or we want a larger player base? And why?" Once you identify this the rest is simply a matter of logistics (how? And to what end?).

    Potential answers (probably not all inclusive..,)
    1. I don't care I can find a game every day so I'm happy.
    2. I don't care as long as the game doesn't change for that purpose.
    3. I dont want a larger player base because more players means more beginners... which means boring games(not why people play NS)
    4. I want more players!! I'm tired of seeing the same 50 people on the same 3 servers.
    5. I want more players, there are to many "pro Pub" players in proportion to player base... so I feel like I don't contribute in relation.
    6.I want more players... more beginners = more stomp!
    7. I want more players... more players means more money!! (Server donations, UWE pockets, and maybe more game support/development)


    I think Reasons 2 and 3 are the primary basis for anti F2P. I totally understand those feelings (3,000+ hrs NS2, at least that many in NS1, and 4000+ hive). The question is "is there a way to increase player base that doesn't alienate these people?"

    Personally I think there F2P is the only realistic way to effectively increase player base. So figuring out "how to go F2P ?" Should be the actual discussion?
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorMembers, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Posts: 8,194 admin
    edited February 2017
    pagulhan wrote: »
    you meet an onos with rifle - you die. In tremulous if you were fast enough, you could kill the strongest alien form with a rifle. Here onos can simply stomp and bum, you're on the ground, defenseless.
    What you are describing is NS2 without RTS elements.

    While I agree that I'd probably enjoy NS2 more without an economy (or at least a more forgiving one), I cannot deny that it is what makes the game unique, and that many others would find it to be far less impactful gameplay - as twiliteblue pointed out.

    This is why there's another thread up about training modes or alternate modes that are more casual and easier for a newer player to learn from.
    NS2 classic will never be touched, but that doesn't mean alternate modes aren't an option. (last stand, combat, scatter's assault mode etc etc)


    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
  • MoFo1MoFo1 United StatesMembers Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Posts: 729 Advanced user
    Why can't someone just make a new "combat" mod?

    If it's legalities or whatever then simply change the name of the game mode. There should be no problem with someone recreating combat in all its glory...

    It's not like faultline games has the rights to the gameplay of the combat mod...

    antoumeatmachine
  • .trixX..trixX. BudapestMembers Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Posts: 862 Advanced user
    well, a mod of that scale would require much more incentive than a pat-on-the-back from the community x)
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
    BestProfileNamecoolitic
  • BestProfileNameBestProfileName Members Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177320Posts: 448 Advanced user
    edited February 2017
    *snip* No need for name calling. -IH
    .trixX. wrote: »
    well, a mod of that scale would require much more incentive than a pat-on-the-back from the community x)

    Yeah and a lot of the time it's a shat on the back.
    Post edited by IronHorse on
  • _Grendel__Grendel_ Members Join Date: 2015-05-07 Member: 204238Posts: 87 Advanced user
    MoFo1 wrote: »

    It's not like faultline games has the rights to the gameplay of the combat mod...

    An honest question, but if this is the case, does UWE own the gameplay around NS2? Could someone just rename all the alien names, make them look different enough and pretty much make the same game under a different name?
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind youMembers Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Posts: 1,684 Advanced user
    _Grendel_ wrote: »
    MoFo1 wrote: »

    It's not like faultline games has the rights to the gameplay of the combat mod...

    An honest question, but if this is the case, does UWE own the gameplay around NS2? Could someone just rename all the alien names, make them look different enough and pretty much make the same game under a different name?

    Obviously not.
    When life gives you lemons, throw it back and demand chocolate.


  • _Grendel__Grendel_ Members Join Date: 2015-05-07 Member: 204238Posts: 87 Advanced user
    Then by that logic, I guess we'd have to know the details of the contract pertaining to combat to know who really does own the gameplay of combat
  • SantaClawsSantaClaws DenmarkMembers, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-07-31 Member: 154491Posts: 1,082 Advanced user
    I'm pretty sure you can't own gameplay. You just can't copy things like textures or models or sounds and stuff like that.

    There's a million cstrike and cod and battlefield and quake clones.

    So yea, you can just reskin combat mod if you wanted to do that. But I think some of you guys are underestimating just how much work that actually is.

    On top of that, I have to say - combat mod was a great start, but it was not without its faults gameplay wise. What a shame it would be, to waste that much work only to repeat the exact same mistakes.

    For starters, don't make a game that rewards tech for frags. It's obviously a vicious circle that's gonna cause huge snowball effects. Better to have a training mode with team based tech progression. Some sort of objective based game.
    IronHorse
  • _Grendel__Grendel_ Members Join Date: 2015-05-07 Member: 204238Posts: 87 Advanced user
    If you're right about not being able to own gameplay, I'd love to see a NS clone in the UE4/5 engine
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in KodiakMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Posts: 4,771 Advanced user
    MoFo1 wrote: »
    Why can't someone just make a new "combat" mod?
    Someone did. Nobody plays it. It is currently broken again because it is not maintained.
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Posts: 2,679 Advanced user
    Nothing short of Combat being made an official gamemode for free is likely going to revitalize Combat. The playerbase that was already there for Combat has long since left or moved on.
    Kouji_Sancoolitic
  • dePARAdePARA Members, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Posts: 1,351 Advanced user
    Btw @_Grendel_
    Im really disappointed.
    You missed some "disagrees" on some of my posts. Go 2 pages back, maybe you find them.
    image
    2cough
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