And yep, the yellow blood is confusing in the game environment. Spores and their clouds are nearly the same yellow/green and lubricant is also yellow, because it comes from the Creepvine seeds, which are...yellow.
"I'm leaking oil from my Cyclops?! Oh shiz!! Wait, no, its spore clouds! No wait...its splattered fish blood..."
I'd like to give the dev team the benefit of doubt, but yellow blood...just doesn't work. Change it from red sure, makes sense for the alien world and also if it helps ratings (despite the giant screaming death doers that tear you and your gear apart...), but ANY OTHER colour would be great please!
ps- and ffs DON'T TOUCH THE BLOOD KELP! There's far more important things to be doing...if changing the blood colour is for ratings, what about the bugs that are STILL around for the PLAYERS, like say, the repeating bio reactor message? Or water clipping through the semi submerged base components? Or that bloody WALL of blueprint designs in the pda? And you guys are toying with blood colours and already great plants?
Seems a bit to me like icing the cake before its even cooked....
InsaneAnomalyJoin Date: 2002-05-13Member: 605Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
We changed the colour of the blood because it was the difference between a "Mild Violence" and a "Violence" rating from the ESRB. Having put so much effort into making a game that is all about a much less violence-based approach to problem solving than your typical survival game, it seemed a huge shame to end up with that "Violent" rating. Changing the blood colour was a low-cost, low-risk solution that also fits with the theme and the setting of the game.
We're not changing the blood kelp colour; at least I've never heard anything about it and I built both zones. The trello card somebody linked to eariler is regarding the blue-green pustules you'll find on the walls of the zone, that give off a little light:
This card was actually about finding a use for these things as gameplay objects. If you look a little closer at the card, you'll see that it's from almost a year ago and it's in the backlog.
Calarand77lurking in general forumsJoin Date: 2016-01-22Member: 211786Members
With that explanation, I can absolutely understand why the blood color was changed, and I can actually support the decision. I just wish a different color was chosen to replace the red to avoid confusion.
Change the color of the Gasopd clouds to a sickly neon green or whatever, so green = poisonous cloud. Then you can tell the difference between the constant little clouds of Peeper blood (which are far more common now) and the gasopod cloud (which can *kill* you).
Leave the Blood Kelp color alone, the survivor is calling it Blood Kelp because its red, not because its hemoglobin.
Change the color of the Gasopd clouds to a sickly neon green or whatever, so green = poisonous cloud. Then you can tell the difference between the constant little clouds of Peeper blood (which are far more common now) and the gasopod cloud (which can *kill* you).
Leave the Blood Kelp color alone, the survivor is calling it Blood Kelp because its red, not because its hemoglobin.
They already said they weren't changing blood oil color.
I find it absolutely bizarre that the principles of the ESRB are so archaic and misinformed ... of all the horrific things that can happen in Subnautica, little ploofs of red blood are what made them classify this game as violent? Completely ridiculous.
I am glad too that the blood oil colour is not going to be changed. That would have actually made me weep.
However, as many of us agree, yellow may not be the best option for blood as it is not only not reminiscent of blood but is far too similar to the Gasopod defense effect and can be easily misinterpreted.
If realism is the intention, and the game requires a blood compound without iron, haemocyanin (a blue, copper-based oxygen carrier) would probably be the best choice:
As @Requiemfang pointed out, many extant oceanic organisms such as the horseshoe crab (pictured) have this oxygen carrier in their blood.
Otherwise, any colour other than yellow for creature blood would probably suffice.
Change the color of the Gasopd clouds to a sickly neon green or whatever, so green = poisonous cloud.
I was thinking the same thing ... but changing the colour of the Gasopod and its attack effect would probably mean a far greater amount of work for the developers than simply changing the blood effect instead.
Regardless, I hope that this new addition can be improved and fleshed out before the release ...
The blood FX in general are going to get another pass at some point to polish them up, and we'll likely try out a few other color choice options. We are a bit limited in what colors we can go for that don't conflict with any of the numerous other FX in the game, though. But we will probably play around with it and see if we can find something that works better.
The ESRB is, from anything I've ever read, a secret panel of unqualified individuals, making arbitrary decisions about things they have no qualifications to judge. And they are scared silly of genitalia.
I haven't given the slightest crap about ESRB ratings. Ever. Except to avoid games that look TOO boring.
Sure, you have things like Hatred, which are... less than politically correct. I've played Postal2, Hatred is just trying too hard. And... I suppose it does, unfortunately, matter. If Subnautica is trying to show up on store shelves, only because suits who make purchasing decisions are idiots. *sigh* At least digital distribution can mostly not care about the ESRB, because 100k+ people have Hatred, and it's banned on frickin Twitch. (Incidentally, the Twitch banned-games list is good reading.)
But if changing the blood color changes the violence rating, that is stupid. This game is a giant trigger for anyone with any aquatic phobias, plus probably a few that we just found out we had. The first time we met the Reaper Leviathan, mostly. Hell, I got squicked on a REEFBACK the first time that I saw it. Now... I gooma-stomp the ones that are twirling, to try and help the cool guy Reefback get leveled out- it worked once!
I think the real solution here is a post-release blood color customization mod. If you wanna placate the ESRB, you'll do what you gotta.
The blood FX in general are going to get another pass at some point to polish them up, and we'll likely try out a few other color choice options. We are a bit limited in what colors we can go for that don't conflict with any of the numerous other FX in the game, though. But we will probably play around with it and see if we can find something that works better.
If talking seriously - why you don't make a creature's blood fluoriscence? Everything in this world has a luminiscence (at night)... why not blood? It MUST contain a similar chemical consists which can glowing... Why not?
The blood FX in general are going to get another pass at some point to polish them up, and we'll likely try out a few other color choice options. We are a bit limited in what colors we can go for that don't conflict with any of the numerous other FX in the game, though. But we will probably play around with it and see if we can find something that works better.
If talking seriously - why you don't make a creature's blood fluoriscence? Everything in this world has a luminiscence (at night)... why not blood? It MUST contain a similar chemical consists which can glowing... Why not?
Oh, yes! Glowing trails from fish when you nail them with a knife! Like Peeper trail, but created with pain! Or when some shark noms something but doesn't kill it.
Blood is a good indicator that you've rammed something properly, but blunt trauma doesn't really give that much blood. NBD tho, the damage indication is probably more important than realism.
I have to wonder exactly what's going through marketing's head. There was a design choice to deemphasis guns, that's fine, it's part of what makes this a proper horror game. But now that you have a scary horror game you want to reduce the rating? If you go for an E rating that would be like a horror movie getting a PG rating, a kiss a death you'd want to avoid. If it's to avoid an M rating then I guess, but an M rating in video games is still very different than an R rating for movies, it's a rating worn with pride by some of the best selling games out there. For being a solid example of horror (man helpless before cruel overpowering monsters, check, can confirm, screamed like a little girl), an M rating shouldn't hurt sales, if anything ratings below that will hurt sales, especially an E rating. But if your marketing guys have data showing that a T rating will be best for sales and they need mild violence to get there then so be it (if they say it needs an E rating then fire them because that means their methodology is clearly off).
If there's a sincere feeling that devs want to make a less violent sort of game, then why would you have a game built around giant blood thirsty killing machines? (one of the more charming aspects of the game if I do say so myself)
Guys, you can dismiss the ESRB all you want. Go on and say how much they suck because they do. I think even most of Subnautica's devs would silently agree with you.
But don't think for a moment they're inconsequential. Your games can and does lose sales based on the rating. Maybe not to a dramatic degree? But enough of one that you feel the hit. Or enough so that changing the blood is cost-effective in terms of your business model. And don't forget that anything the ERSB labels as "Adult Only" (AO) can't legally be sold on most storefronts. Or won't be carried by even the ones that do. It has a big influence on the games industry.
Do keep in mind that Subnautica is partially going for the Minecraft audience. A lot of that audience are minors. Redstone miner minors if you prefer. It makes sense financially to make this game as available to them as possible. I think the devs made this decision because they didn't think a minor change like this would.... ... ...
...
create too much blood in the water. ^_^
In the meantime, if some of you found a (legal) way to basically burn down the ESRB or limiting its power/influence? We're cheering you on, for realsies.
For some reason, this change reminds me when they changed Paal and Bart to Paul and Bart.
1. Completely uncalled for.
2. Reason for change was completely unreasonable.
3. All I can think of when I hear those names are these two guys:
This comment is what happens when you post without looking at the next page.
I made a whole thread on this hoping they would change it back. Like you said, it was completely uncalled for and it was unreasonable and most people agree that the old names were cooler and made them seem like they are from a distant future space faring culture! http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/144609/degasi-name-change
For some reason, this change reminds me when they changed Paal and Bart to Paul and Bart.
1. Completely uncalled for.
2. Reason for change was completely unreasonable.
3. All I can think of when I hear those names are these two guys:
This comment is what happens when you post without looking at the next page.
I made a whole thread on this hoping they would change it back. Like you said, it was completely uncalled for and it was unreasonable and most people agree that the old names were cooler and made them seem like they are from a distant future space faring culture! http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/144609/degasi-name-change
Yeah, I saw that and upvoted it.
What reason did UW have to change it in the first instance?
Comments
And yep, the yellow blood is confusing in the game environment. Spores and their clouds are nearly the same yellow/green and lubricant is also yellow, because it comes from the Creepvine seeds, which are...yellow.
"I'm leaking oil from my Cyclops?! Oh shiz!! Wait, no, its spore clouds! No wait...its splattered fish blood..."
I'd like to give the dev team the benefit of doubt, but yellow blood...just doesn't work. Change it from red sure, makes sense for the alien world and also if it helps ratings (despite the giant screaming death doers that tear you and your gear apart...), but ANY OTHER colour would be great please!
ps- and ffs DON'T TOUCH THE BLOOD KELP! There's far more important things to be doing...if changing the blood colour is for ratings, what about the bugs that are STILL around for the PLAYERS, like say, the repeating bio reactor message? Or water clipping through the semi submerged base components? Or that bloody WALL of blueprint designs in the pda?
Seems a bit to me like icing the cake before its even cooked....
Still, loving the game as always!
Making blood oil not red though is just wrong.
We're not changing the blood kelp colour; at least I've never heard anything about it and I built both zones. The trello card somebody linked to eariler is regarding the blue-green pustules you'll find on the walls of the zone, that give off a little light:
This card was actually about finding a use for these things as gameplay objects. If you look a little closer at the card, you'll see that it's from almost a year ago and it's in the backlog.
1. Completely uncalled for.
2. Reason for change was completely unreasonable.
3. All I can think of when I hear those names are these two guys:
This comment is what happens when you post without looking at the next page.
Below 10 metres, haemoglobin-based blood turns a murky green colour. Selective colour absorption of light at depth.
Science!
Well, Earth fish are...
What does purple have to do with cold blood?
Hope we have a colour choice in options for the blood, or another colour is chosen over yellow... Just my 2c...
I have NO idea why they would change blood color for any rating, when THIS can happen:
For that matter, I just ran into the Sea Dragon the other day.
Leave the Blood Kelp color alone, the survivor is calling it Blood Kelp because its red, not because its hemoglobin.
The ESRB? Nobody pays any attention to those fools.
They already said they weren't changing blood oil color.
I find it absolutely bizarre that the principles of the ESRB are so archaic and misinformed ... of all the horrific things that can happen in Subnautica, little ploofs of red blood are what made them classify this game as violent? Completely ridiculous.
I am glad too that the blood oil colour is not going to be changed. That would have actually made me weep.
However, as many of us agree, yellow may not be the best option for blood as it is not only not reminiscent of blood but is far too similar to the Gasopod defense effect and can be easily misinterpreted.
If realism is the intention, and the game requires a blood compound without iron, haemocyanin (a blue, copper-based oxygen carrier) would probably be the best choice:
As @Requiemfang pointed out, many extant oceanic organisms such as the horseshoe crab (pictured) have this oxygen carrier in their blood.
Otherwise, any colour other than yellow for creature blood would probably suffice.
I was thinking the same thing ... but changing the colour of the Gasopod and its attack effect would probably mean a far greater amount of work for the developers than simply changing the blood effect instead.
Regardless, I hope that this new addition can be improved and fleshed out before the release ...
I haven't given the slightest crap about ESRB ratings. Ever. Except to avoid games that look TOO boring.
Sure, you have things like Hatred, which are... less than politically correct. I've played Postal2, Hatred is just trying too hard. And... I suppose it does, unfortunately, matter. If Subnautica is trying to show up on store shelves, only because suits who make purchasing decisions are idiots. *sigh* At least digital distribution can mostly not care about the ESRB, because 100k+ people have Hatred, and it's banned on frickin Twitch. (Incidentally, the Twitch banned-games list is good reading.)
But if changing the blood color changes the violence rating, that is stupid. This game is a giant trigger for anyone with any aquatic phobias, plus probably a few that we just found out we had. The first time we met the Reaper Leviathan, mostly. Hell, I got squicked on a REEFBACK the first time that I saw it. Now... I gooma-stomp the ones that are twirling, to try and help the cool guy Reefback get leveled out- it worked once!
I think the real solution here is a post-release blood color customization mod. If you wanna placate the ESRB, you'll do what you gotta.
If talking seriously - why you don't make a creature's blood fluoriscence? Everything in this world has a luminiscence (at night)... why not blood? It MUST contain a similar chemical consists which can glowing... Why not?
Oh, yes! Glowing trails from fish when you nail them with a knife! Like Peeper trail, but created with pain! Or when some shark noms something but doesn't kill it.
Blood is a good indicator that you've rammed something properly, but blunt trauma doesn't really give that much blood. NBD tho, the damage indication is probably more important than realism.
If there's a sincere feeling that devs want to make a less violent sort of game, then why would you have a game built around giant blood thirsty killing machines? (one of the more charming aspects of the game if I do say so myself)
But don't think for a moment they're inconsequential. Your games can and does lose sales based on the rating. Maybe not to a dramatic degree? But enough of one that you feel the hit. Or enough so that changing the blood is cost-effective in terms of your business model. And don't forget that anything the ERSB labels as "Adult Only" (AO) can't legally be sold on most storefronts. Or won't be carried by even the ones that do. It has a big influence on the games industry.
Do keep in mind that Subnautica is partially going for the Minecraft audience. A lot of that audience are minors. Redstone miner minors if you prefer. It makes sense financially to make this game as available to them as possible. I think the devs made this decision because they didn't think a minor change like this would.... ... ...
...
create too much blood in the water. ^_^
In the meantime, if some of you found a (legal) way to basically burn down the ESRB or limiting its power/influence? We're cheering you on, for realsies.
I made a whole thread on this hoping they would change it back. Like you said, it was completely uncalled for and it was unreasonable and most people agree that the old names were cooler and made them seem like they are from a distant future space faring culture!
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/144609/degasi-name-change
Yeah, I saw that and upvoted it.
What reason did UW have to change it in the first instance?
I'll be damned if I'll retcon what I've written so far to accommodate that change.