So the plants...
Herugrim
The Poconos Join Date: 2016-08-15 Member: 221402Members
The Poconos Join Date: 2016-08-15 Member: 221402Members
Alright, so neuter the tree because the fruit was to OP. But why keep it? Feels like a kick in the balls every time I see it.
In fact, why keep edible plants at all at this point? Sure it's nice to have options, or it was, but there's one problem. See the endgame is going to be in the lava biome. I went there once, it took a long time. I was starving to death when I got back home to eat. Yeah it's my fault I didn't pack fruit, but here's the thing.
Before we had two options. We could farm cured fish and bottled water, or make two small planters in the cyclops, one for the tree and the other for melons. The Mellon were better than the tree but they grew back slower, the tree made a good counter balance since it could grow so much fruit. Now all we have are the melons and they don't grow back every fast so they aren't really viable on their own. There's the potatoes but, well, those provide less food than the hanging fruit and grow as slowly as the melons so they aren't viable either.
Bottom line is, we don't have a farming option for this anymore. There's no choice but to find and scan the aquarium fragments and the multipurpose room, build multiple room with multiple tanks, wait for the fish to copoulate, scan the water filtrater fragments and wait for it to generate a lot of salt and water, build extra power generators to power water filtration machines, then harvest and cure a whole bunch of fish. Will probably have to stockpile the Cyclops full of cured fish and water so we can forget about collecting any resources in the lava biome until we build a base down there, assuming we can.
Anyway bottom line is even if players want to use fruit rather than stockpile fish they don't have a choice anymore, so why bother keeping the farming mechanics around? It's just a beginner's trap now. A grand time waster.
I mean, I know everyone would rather the game be more challenging than leave players with options, which is why the fruit was gutted to begin with. So why waste time pretending there are options in a sandbox game like this?
In fact, why keep edible plants at all at this point? Sure it's nice to have options, or it was, but there's one problem. See the endgame is going to be in the lava biome. I went there once, it took a long time. I was starving to death when I got back home to eat. Yeah it's my fault I didn't pack fruit, but here's the thing.
Before we had two options. We could farm cured fish and bottled water, or make two small planters in the cyclops, one for the tree and the other for melons. The Mellon were better than the tree but they grew back slower, the tree made a good counter balance since it could grow so much fruit. Now all we have are the melons and they don't grow back every fast so they aren't really viable on their own. There's the potatoes but, well, those provide less food than the hanging fruit and grow as slowly as the melons so they aren't viable either.
Bottom line is, we don't have a farming option for this anymore. There's no choice but to find and scan the aquarium fragments and the multipurpose room, build multiple room with multiple tanks, wait for the fish to copoulate, scan the water filtrater fragments and wait for it to generate a lot of salt and water, build extra power generators to power water filtration machines, then harvest and cure a whole bunch of fish. Will probably have to stockpile the Cyclops full of cured fish and water so we can forget about collecting any resources in the lava biome until we build a base down there, assuming we can.
Anyway bottom line is even if players want to use fruit rather than stockpile fish they don't have a choice anymore, so why bother keeping the farming mechanics around? It's just a beginner's trap now. A grand time waster.
I mean, I know everyone would rather the game be more challenging than leave players with options, which is why the fruit was gutted to begin with. So why waste time pretending there are options in a sandbox game like this?
Comments
The lantern fruit was OP. Not gamebreaking, but clearly the best go-to option when you were at your base or on your cyclops. Kind of like how there's really no reason for most of the fish for food, since some are clearly better than others, even in the same biome. This is the sort of thing that will be adjusted as long as the game is in development, and probably even after launch.
As for other options: you can use the heat knife in most biomes to cook fish on the go. You can salt fish without the dehydrator, and catch fish by hand (especially once they fix all the 'extinction' bugs). And you can still plant food and use that, even if it isn't as good as it used to be.
You can't salt fish from scratch. You need salt to do it, and you need a lot of it to stockpile cured fish. Sure you can farm it instead of generating it but you need the water anyway.
And your assuming the heated blade will work on lava larva? I'm sure it won't work on the lizards, they are predators after all.
The lantern fruit was only OP if you never left your habitat and still needed another fruit to balance it out. You couldn't take it on long trips, which was the balance. Now it is useless, taking up space and tricking players into thinking they have options.
They are also beautification assets.
Seriously, someone pops in and says "hey guys, you broke the farming system, better toss it all" and the best you've got is HerpaDerp kid reading the company line? We only had 3 edible plants and you complained that one of them was OP, which it wasn't and got it Negated, not Nerfed. If it was Nerfed it's effects would be reduced or it would be impaired in some way but still useful. That is how you balance gameplay, not by removing something that cripples a feature in the game. That's not balancing, that's pure idiocy. Out of the three edible plants the hanging fruit was the lynch pin that made the other two viable for different senarios. On their own the potato and the melon are something to keep in your habitat just to mix things up, but are no good on the move.
They could've added other edible plants. Wheres the edible mushrooms? I know Acid Mushrooms used to be edible but that didn't make much sense (eating acid, come on now) but no reason there couldn't be edible mushrooms for us to grow. We can cure fish but we can't make dried fruit? Of course with the regular in game fruit rendered useless that would be useless as well but that's why they shouldn't have done it in the first place.
I like the farming system. It's cool to grow plants and be able to eat them, or at least have the option. Breaking it like they did is not balance, it just forces everybody to fish. God forbid we have options. Hell would freeze over if you lazy 'hardcore' windbags had to challenge yourselves to fish as you needed instead of growing trees and never leaving your multipurpose room.
Rooms make the game too easy! We can build them right away there's no point to keeping the pod around so hide them so deep we can't find them until we have submarines or on islands that new players will have no idea exist to force them to look stuff up on the internet to know what they are supposed to do. Hide aquariums, too. We have to farm fish now but it must take as much time as possible to do so or it is too easy and game is bad!
Tree with fruit is too easy. All we need is a couple pots and we can go anywhere without fear of food or water! Nerf the trees to make them useless and force us to take time to farm fish in multiple tanks over time because it is better if it takes longer and force players to do it. Don't give them options it's too easy.
Having one O2 tank with twice as much oxygen that we can switch out is too easy. We should have to craft and stack multiple tanks if we want to dive deep or explore wrecks and caves, so that then all the tanks can slow us down so we have to use the Glider. Then change the glider so it uses up more power and we have to farm batteries because we need something to arbitrarily reduce our inventory space so between extra tanks and batteries we can't loot as much, forces players to farm more materials and spend more time prepping before exploring and makes game better.
You guys aren't making the game any harder. Your turning an open world sandbox into an underwater grindfest. It's becoming slow and boring. Then you'll all be complaining when we finally have to go into the lava biome and your sick of catching and raising the same damn fish all the time.
I can't disagree with that. I like to use the exterior bed right outside a window with bio-luminescent plants like koosh and membrane trees. Though nothing glows quite as bright as Creep Vine seed clusters, for some reason.
I don't remember that in the game description. The area we can explore is awfully large for exploration not to matter, and there's an awful lot of stuff we can craft that is completely unnecessary for survival.
If the only point is to live then all you need is a single multipurpose room and a large aquarium. Then it's game over.
You misunderstand. I meant that a lot of the core game mechanics are centered around survival, and that this isn't exactly a pure sandbox. You have to survive to be able to explore.
It really isn't a big deal. I'd made some posts about this pre-reset, but there is absolutely no problem here, just unnecessary raging.
First group: The explorers. They explore all the time, and get resources while they're at it (so they do fill up inventory, but it's slower). they'll be gone from base for an hour to two.
I believe I am part of this group. I do not gather resources quick or efficiently, I try to explore and hey some ore there. okay. Even pre-nerf, the lantern fruits were just worthless to me. Yeah I could feed myself in my base or cyclops - but I was out quickly and the food didn't last for long. So I never even bothered with it just because it couldn't satisfy my needs.
Second group: Not really a name for it, but the group that takes half an hour to an hour on trips. They have slightly more preference for the fruit, as they can heal at base, they spend a bit more time there, so they can probably eat a few more - but once again, the lantern fruit would take up too much space and rot too quickly for their explorals, so they'd need another source of food (or on the go)
Third group: people who often return to the base/cyclops. They ofcourse, have a huge preference for the lantern fruit, as they'd never need anything else because their food never reaches 0 before they return. - The problems thus lies in this "group" (not WITH the group.. not blaming anyone.)
here-in lies another issue. If this group doesn't want problems and just wants to go out etc. Their fix is: build more trees. This adds unnecesary tedium without fixing the problems. I am not sure how to fix it, but I have a solution that /may/ work below.
I believe options in a single player is great - I think the lantern fruit shouldn't have been nerfed because you can choose not to use them - however by these forums I am told that is a horrible argument.
so I have a proposed change:
Lantern fruit trees can grow max 3/4 fruits on a tree. They can rot ON the tree, and this takes exactly two trips of hunger going from 100 to 0. And they take longer to grow.
This way there is no added benefit to having more trees than allows for max hunger filling, as the fruit are simply rotten. You can feed yourself to full once, but it'll take a long while before being able to use them again. You can't stock up on trees since the fruit would simply rot before.
This way you can use the fruit for your own benefit, and don't worry about food - for a while. (Or you'd have to time the trees to exactly start growing at 50% of the other trees, to have a constant supply) - which is still doable.
Not sure if this adds more tedium or anything, but it feels like this way you don't just have to endlessly put new trees in your base if you want to be free of hunger (which people can choose to do, that is their choice, I believe the game should have this option), but it does take a bit of micro gameplay to do so.
It's essentially the same with everything, crafter timers.. you can wait yourself, people can play their game in their own way. I am for making the game for the worst player possible - but that's just me.
Extended forays in the Cyclops? Sure if... at the point that I have gotten to I still find little utility to the cyclops. Sure we can grow veggies on board. Back to my earlier point. Not portable on our persons. Take up a huge a inventory space.
A still suit mitigates some of the water issues. I really only used lantern fruit to rehydrate anyway. Several small bases scattered here, and there with taters Melons, and lantern fruit to snack on as the need arises.
Plus the odd fish.
Just my two cents.
You absolutely still can.
. . . in that case, I'm confused about what this thread is about.
I assume he's upset about the nerf, and is saying it "killed" farming,
Specifically the lantern fruit will/does (depending on stable/experimental) give more like 5 food and 3 water now, instead of 13/11. It's really not a big deal - you just need to grow more.
And others are thinking its a huge conspiracy all because a playtester made one joke.
It was Obraxis, not "some playtester", but yes.
These balances do need to happen, but man, guys, you don't have to nerf things so damned hard all the time. Little adjustments, tiny ones, those are the key. Moderation, geez.
The thing is you can't just grow more. You can't eat too much of one thing it makes you sick. People used to get by on creepvine, so it was nerfed to the point of being useless as a good. It is at least still a crafting ingredient.
Farming used to be a nice alternative to catching fish, easier as many note because they grow back on their own and don't need giant tanks with dedicated rooms. The drawback to fruit was you couldn't take it with you on long excursions. However with the Cyclops you could plant a tree with either a potatoe plant or a melon pot and you had easily replenishing food and water.
However people claimed you could pocket a few hanging fruit and never have to eat again but that was never possible, fruit rots too fast. However the hanging fruit got completely negated, much like the creep vine. This made the tree completely useless as a food source. The potatoes and melons are still there but they aren't compatible as well as the fruit was, meaning you no longer have the option of using fruit in the Cyclops.
Diving to the lava zone requires the cyclops, the seamoth can't reach it. You need food because it is a long trip just to get there, nonetheless explore. The lava zone is empty now but will be a required location. To visit to complete the game later so everyone must go there eventually. Back in the day you could stock cured fish or plant a couple of lots. But now the plants are useless for this purpose so you must farm cured fish.
You can still feed off plants at your habitat well enough, but ultimately to reach the new area you must farm fish. We had choices, now we do not.
And for reference the still suit has been removed, so no more easy water. We must farm fish, and we must farm water, hence the water filtration is also pretty much a must have.
The point is they broke their own feature due to misinformation. Personally I'd rather they just man up and have the balls to admit it and just do away with the whole thing, since all it does right now is trick people into thinking there are choices.
Well, I know Obraxis made the card, but I was referring to the "Space peaches joke" made by someone whose name I can't remember.
I can confirm that eating too much of anything at one time will cause the "bleeding" (presumably vomiting).
Assuming the lantern fruit is no longer nutritious enough to fill you up without incurring the overeating penalty, I don't like this change. I'm not sure I'm a fan of removing the stillsuit, either. I like having the hunger/thirst mechanics as something that I need to keep an eye on, but I don't want to spend a lot of time trying to keep my character from starving.
I needed more vegetables in my diet anyway.
Was it? Ima need to see some paperwork.