Aliens sneak skill won't work when marine is watching long hallway and just waits for you.
Sneak never was, is, or will be intended to work against a marine playing like this.
Of course it won't, but they removed HP buff and gave us higher speed / sneak speed.
... and I'm not saying that we should give skulk 85hp. Maybe there is some kind of different solution, maybe make gorge / skulk combo deadly? It all depends on how you want the game to be played.
Yes there is a different solution, one they seem hell bent on ignoring completely
Reducing the overall skulk model so that the new "larger" hitbox is technically the same size as before.
It solves what they were trying to do (shooting at skulks feels better/more shots hit) while at the same time keeping balance intact (since hitbox would actually be the same size it was before = no balance impact whatsoever) I mean seriously didn't they even say they wanted tweaking the hitbox to be a QoL change and not a balance change?
But no, not even a comment about that idea.. Just "lets tweak the hitbox, oh that makes marines op, lets buff skulk hp, oh that makes skulks op, lets nerf skulks again and try a different buff, oh marines are op again.." as if they're just experimenting with a "lets throw it all up against the wall and see what sticks" mentality.
Which worries me because that's exactly what the FLG team was doing with Combat... oh A is op, ok lets nerf A.. oh that makes B op, ok lets nerf B.. oh that makes A op again, ok lets buff C.. Oh now A is useless and C is op, lets buff A and nerf C.. Oh A is op again, etc... and in the end they wound up with a game that was punishment to play because it was so boring, had such frustrating balance mechanics, and was overall no fun at all anymore.
1. Establish a grand, unifying vision/concept of how the game is supposed to be like to attract and retain players. Gather some high level comp players and some of the more reasonable community members to aid in this process. They know how to play the game best. Also get someone from the outside for "consulting" that doesn't come with any baggage in regards to ns2.
2. Work on this visionary version of ns2. You don't have to do it all in one go, but if changes from that build go live, they should come with big leaps, big changes, and big intervals. The current steady trickle of featurettes that keep the playerbase in a constant state of annoyance really hurts.
3. Rebrand and relaunch the game. NS2: Special Edition/Director's Cut/Reloaded/The SCC Chronicles/Reborn/Reimagined/Rebuilt/Evolved/Amplified/The Real Deal/Electric Boogaloo 2/The Flamethrower (or all of them). Relaunch it as a separate game on steam and heavily advertise it.
Right now, there seems to be:
a) No intention of doing a relaunch or rebrand, just a vague hope that if the game gets better people will magically come back. Spoiler: They won't. NS2 had their chance with them and it missed it. You need a "new" game to catch their attention. A significantly improved game. (Granted, maybe there is a plan like that, but no dev ever mentioned it, and right now it doesn't look like you're on a good way with it.)
b) A steady trickle of featurettes (and counter featurettes!) that constantly annoy the existing playerbase. Pro tip in business*: Don't keep your customers in a state of constant annoyance. They are much better at coping with big changes every few months. I get that ns2 balance is very delicate and some counter patches will probably be needed, but that's far from impossible. Other games do it, too. (Best reason to do anything.) Remember: There's only so much a person can be upset at a time. You want to keep the general upsetness low with occasional spikes if you can't have it any other way. Right now you're doing the opposite.
c) NO VISION! This is by far the worst point. There seems to be no vision, no concept, no overarching "ideal ns2" you guys are working towards. No plan. If there is one, it doesn't show at all. Just small parts that point in the same general direction, but that do not form anything whole.
This got longer than I intended it to. Maybe I should start one of those "Hey devs listen to me" threads.
But seriously. Turn this game around.
edit: Or don't and work on NS3. After all, the game is 4 years old. But it looks like you want to turn this game around. It's just not working very well so far.
*slap me if I go overboard here but someone needs to say it, again and again and again and again
I've been beating that drum for awhile, but let's be fair here. They just did re:hp changes to skulk.
Oh you man the change that they said was experimental? The change they had to make in an effort to fix the other aspect of balance they ****ed up? (you know with that "QoL change" that wasn't intended to screw up balance)
That change? Because honestly they shouldn't get any credit for reversing that.. Not when they still fail to fix the underlying problem...
Lock hp bars to crosshair or hud
Make skulks slightly smaller
Also should be mentioned devs you wanted to fix phantom "because it was too op to be able to silently move and cloak" but instead you allow combining of Aura with Silence which is on a whole new level of retarded gameplay, no need to sneak, no need to parasite, it's completely broken to have both and it was never intended.
Also should be mentioned devs you wanted to fix phantom "because it was too op to be able to silently move and cloak" but instead you allow combining of Aura with Silence which is on a whole new level of retarded gameplay, no need to sneak, no need to parasite, it's completely broken to have both and it was never intended.
Honestly I have to disagree about that... I pretty much never use silence and Aura together. It's always either Silence + Vampirism or Silence + Focus... Aura is best paired with Celerity, and unless I'm mistaken in NS1 you could have both silence and aura. (Just what I've heard, I could be wrong as I was never able to play it)
Also the devs said that silence and speed were too op (not silence and cloak) which I have to be honest and admit they really were (despite how much I loved Celerity + Phantom Skulking!) so this has actually been one of the few good changes they've made since the PDT was formed.
I'd personally still like something to entice more frequent use of shade for first hive. Focus and Vampirism can be extremely useful early game (even slightly op) if you know how to use them.
Also the devs said that silence and speed were too op (not silence and cloak) which I have to be honest and admit they really were (despite how much I loved Celerity + Phantom Skulking!) so this has actually been one of the few good changes they've made since the PDT was formed.
If they wanted just that they could have moved celerity elsewhere. Truth is they were incorporating ideas from compmod including the separation of silence and cloak which then led to having new traits.
I can't believe this aberation was part of NS1, it makes landing 3 bites and skulking in general too easy.
Also the devs said that silence and speed were too op (not silence and cloak) which I have to be honest and admit they really were (despite how much I loved Celerity + Phantom Skulking!) so this has actually been one of the few good changes they've made since the PDT was formed.
If they wanted just that they could have moved celerity elsewhere.
You're joking right? Move the speed upgrade off of the movement hive...really?
Ok I'll take the bait... Where could they have moved celerity? Shade or Crag hive?
What should they have moved to shift hive in place of celerity?
Please I'm dying to hear your thought process on this.
It's absolutely fucking baffling that the devs have such a poor grasp on the balance of NS2.
It is even further absolutely fucking baffling that multiple users are throwing the solutions at the devs and then the devs 'listen to the community'... and then do something similar, but not so similar that it actually achieves what it sets out to achieve.
Again, it REEKS of the behaviour of one of those megalomaniacs who won't do anything unless they feel like it's their idea.
Steal the good idea, bloat/scramble/remove everything from it that makes it sensible, then slap it in-game as an 'experiment' (lol iz actually permanent change) and let the plebs deal with it.
More stunningly poor management of a moribund gaming community.
we'll have to see how it plays out, but I can't help but think as marine spawning in atrium is going to feel shitty. imagine there's a skulk harassing your base and you're the only marine around, how do you deal with the skulk? He'll just kite you around the conveniently placed glass cylinder in the center of the room (where IPs spawn, unless that has been changed), which is exactly what makes Canopy on Biodome bad for marines.
edit: I agree with putting something there to block that sightline, but a fewboxes would've been perfectly fine while fitting the maps theme much more.
Actually it is proven wrong already that "celerity + phantom was too op" is not the reason why silence was moved if you just read the changelog.
Since if you take aura and silence you now actually have old celerity too so yea no.
Fact is having both creates stupidly cheesy and 1-sided gameplay. Stop ignoring that and we might have a conversation.
Actually it is proven wrong already that "celerity + phantom was too op" is not the reason why silence was moved if you just read the changelog.
Since if you take aura and silence you now actually have old celerity too so yea no.
They also said HP bars were a QoL change. What people say, and what people do, can be two very different things.
I've been beating that drum for awhile, but let's be fair here. They just did re:hp changes to skulk.
Oh you man the change that they said was experimental? The change they had to make in an effort to fix the other aspect of balance they ****ed up? (you know with that "QoL change" that wasn't intended to screw up balance)
That change? Because honestly they shouldn't get any credit for reversing that.. Not when they still fail to fix the underlying problem...
Lock hp bars to crosshair or hud
Make skulks slightly smaller
It's not rocket science.
Its the process, not the specifics of the change. They are separate things. You don't get to pick and choose which qualifies. They may be inadequate, wrong or whatever, but its still taking back a recent change.
Anyway, I'm more convinced now that rapid iteration was a mistake. Its one thing to have changes, but its another to have change for the sake of change. Lets hope they will relook some of the other recent changes now that that period has passed.
Since if you take aura and silence you now actually have old celerity too so yea no.
Fact is having both creates stupidly cheesy and 1-sided gameplay. Stop ignoring that and we might have a conversation.
Uh no, you clearly don't understand the changelog if you think that... You should go read it again.
Also facts are that Aura + Silence clearly isn't as "cheesy" as you think. As someone who only plays Alien I would actually consider it a handicap for me to take Silence + Aura over Celerity + Aura... Especially if referring to Lerks/Fade/Oni..
Do you put celerity on shade or crag hive?
What upgrade do you move over to shift hive in place of celerity?
What I think would be better is simple, keep celerity in shift hive. Move silence where it belongs. And move focus to shift hive.
Silent movement = movement hive
Absolutely not, here's some Kharaa traits 101 for you so you better understand how it works:
Celerity boost speed, adrenaline boosts speed (through blink, flap, belly slide, charge, leap), silence boost sneak, aura boost sneak,
Do you put celerity on shade or crag hive?
What upgrade do you move over to shift hive in place of celerity?
What I think would be better is simple, keep celerity in shift hive. Move silence where it belongs. And move focus to shift hive.
That keeps Celerity + Silence as a possible combination of skills.. So clearly you refuse to accept that Celerity + Phantom was incredibly overpowered (way WAY more op than Silence + Aura could ever be under any circumstances)
Since you refuse to accept that fact, this is a pointless discussion.
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
We had this before with NS1, so here's my guide on how to deal with silence + scent of fear (aura)
Step 1: Don't Rambo
Step 2: Watch your corners and flanks
Step 3: Weld your teammates and ask for medpacks
Bonus: Mines and a well placed observatory
Congrats, you have successfully countered their combined abilities with teamwork and caution.
Your reactions might be slower because you're limited to vision only, and they'll know where you are, but if you act as a team then any benefit they had of moving silently will be lost as once they're spotted they effectively have the same combat capability as an alien lifeform without celerity or adrenaline.
We had this before with NS1, so here's my guide on how to deal with silence + scent of fear (aura)
Step 1: Don't Rambo
Step 2: Watch your corners and flanks
Step 3: Weld your teammates and ask for medpacks
Bonus: Mines and a well placed observatory
Congrats, you have successfully countered their combined abilities with teamwork and caution.
Your reactions might be slower because you're limited to vision only, and they'll know where you are, but if you act as a team then any benefit they had of moving silently will be lost as once they're spotted they effectively have the same combat capability as an alien lifeform without celerity or adrenaline.
Actually you just have to move forward normally while continuously jumping to look behind yourself
Do you put celerity on shade or crag hive?
What upgrade do you move over to shift hive in place of celerity?
What I think would be better is simple, keep celerity in shift hive. Move silence where it belongs. And move focus to shift hive.
That keeps Celerity + Silence as a possible combination of skills.. So clearly you refuse to accept that Celerity + Phantom was incredibly overpowered (way WAY more op than Silence + Aura could ever be under any circumstances)
Since you refuse to accept that fact, this is a pointless discussion.
Haha and until you actually show your source about this claim it's just an idea you pulled out your ass.
Do you put celerity on shade or crag hive?
What upgrade do you move over to shift hive in place of celerity?
What I think would be better is simple, keep celerity in shift hive. Move silence where it belongs. And move focus to shift hive.
That keeps Celerity + Silence as a possible combination of skills.. So clearly you refuse to accept that Celerity + Phantom was incredibly overpowered (way WAY more op than Silence + Aura could ever be under any circumstances)
Since you refuse to accept that fact, this is a pointless discussion.
Haha and until you actually show your source about this claim it's just an idea you pulled out your ass.
How/Why would he require a source? This is his idea of how it works/worked.
We had this before with NS1, so here's my guide on how to deal with silence + scent of fear (aura)
Step 1: Don't Rambo
Step 2: Watch your corners and flanks
Step 3: Weld your teammates and ask for medpacks
Bonus: Mines and a well placed observatory
Congrats, you have successfully countered their combined abilities with teamwork and caution.
Your reactions might be slower because you're limited to vision only, and they'll know where you are, but if you act as a team then any benefit they had of moving silently will be lost as once they're spotted they effectively have the same combat capability as an alien lifeform without celerity or adrenaline.
Actually you just have to move forward normally while continuously jumping to look behind yourself
Do you put celerity on shade or crag hive?
What upgrade do you move over to shift hive in place of celerity?
What I think would be better is simple, keep celerity in shift hive. Move silence where it belongs. And move focus to shift hive.
That keeps Celerity + Silence as a possible combination of skills.. So clearly you refuse to accept that Celerity + Phantom was incredibly overpowered (way WAY more op than Silence + Aura could ever be under any circumstances)
Since you refuse to accept that fact, this is a pointless discussion.
Haha and until you actually show your source about this claim it's just an idea you pulled out your ass.
You're funny... You have no argument so you start demanding a source..
The devs stated their motivation for splitting phantom when they did it. If you want to read it then look it up yourself. I know I'm right (and so does anyone else who read the changelog at the time) so I'm not going to waste my time linking it to someone who will just ignore it anyway.
The funniest part of this is how you're going on and on about Silence + Aura being op... Why don't you show your source? Oh wait...
Do you put celerity on shade or crag hive?
What upgrade do you move over to shift hive in place of celerity?
What I think would be better is simple, keep celerity in shift hive. Move silence where it belongs. And move focus to shift hive.
That keeps Celerity + Silence as a possible combination of skills.. So clearly you refuse to accept that Celerity + Phantom was incredibly overpowered (way WAY more op than Silence + Aura could ever be under any circumstances)
Since you refuse to accept that fact, this is a pointless discussion.
Haha and until you actually show your source about this claim it's just an idea you pulled out your ass.
You're funny... You have no argument so you start demanding a source..
The devs stated their motivation for splitting phantom when they did it. If you want to read it then look it up yourself. I know I'm right (and so does anyone else who read the changelog at the time) so I'm not going to waste my time linking it to someone who will just ignore it anyway.
The funniest part of this is how you're going on and on about Silence + Aura being op... Why don't you show your source? Oh wait...
Sorry you are completely wrong. I have arguments but you just ignore it, that doesn't make me wrong.
Aura + Silence makes skulking too easy, if you want more details read again previous posts and if you still don't understant you're beyond my ability to help or probably just too bad at this game to understand how it works.
And nope being dishonest and ignoring my posts won't make me wrong
And I'm not going to repeat myself 10 times over for some random retard on the internet that can't read.
I suppose silence + aura skulking can seem like a must use op combo if you're really bad or new at skulking in general...
I've countered your arguments and like a little kid you stuck your fingers in your ears and went "lalala i can't hear you I'm right you're wrong lalala"
I'll let the posts speak for themselves. I suggest you actually look at the changelog from the build that split phantom.. You'll see how foolish you've been.
Comments
Sneak never was, is, or will be intended to work against a marine playing like this.
Of course it won't, but they removed HP buff and gave us higher speed / sneak speed.
... and I'm not saying that we should give skulk 85hp. Maybe there is some kind of different solution, maybe make gorge / skulk combo deadly? It all depends on how you want the game to be played.
Yes there is a different solution, one they seem hell bent on ignoring completely
Reducing the overall skulk model so that the new "larger" hitbox is technically the same size as before.
It solves what they were trying to do (shooting at skulks feels better/more shots hit) while at the same time keeping balance intact (since hitbox would actually be the same size it was before = no balance impact whatsoever) I mean seriously didn't they even say they wanted tweaking the hitbox to be a QoL change and not a balance change?
But no, not even a comment about that idea.. Just "lets tweak the hitbox, oh that makes marines op, lets buff skulk hp, oh that makes skulks op, lets nerf skulks again and try a different buff, oh marines are op again.." as if they're just experimenting with a "lets throw it all up against the wall and see what sticks" mentality.
Which worries me because that's exactly what the FLG team was doing with Combat... oh A is op, ok lets nerf A.. oh that makes B op, ok lets nerf B.. oh that makes A op again, ok lets buff C.. Oh now A is useless and C is op, lets buff A and nerf C.. Oh A is op again, etc... and in the end they wound up with a game that was punishment to play because it was so boring, had such frustrating balance mechanics, and was overall no fun at all anymore.
I made a post about this a while ago, but it was on page 11 of a thread, so nobody read it:
Oh you man the change that they said was experimental? The change they had to make in an effort to fix the other aspect of balance they ****ed up? (you know with that "QoL change" that wasn't intended to screw up balance)
That change? Because honestly they shouldn't get any credit for reversing that.. Not when they still fail to fix the underlying problem...
Lock hp bars to crosshair or hud
Make skulks slightly smaller
It's not rocket science.
Oh my god, this is happening again...
Honestly I have to disagree about that... I pretty much never use silence and Aura together. It's always either Silence + Vampirism or Silence + Focus... Aura is best paired with Celerity, and unless I'm mistaken in NS1 you could have both silence and aura. (Just what I've heard, I could be wrong as I was never able to play it)
Also the devs said that silence and speed were too op (not silence and cloak) which I have to be honest and admit they really were (despite how much I loved Celerity + Phantom Skulking!) so this has actually been one of the few good changes they've made since the PDT was formed.
I'd personally still like something to entice more frequent use of shade for first hive. Focus and Vampirism can be extremely useful early game (even slightly op) if you know how to use them.
If they wanted just that they could have moved celerity elsewhere. Truth is they were incorporating ideas from compmod including the separation of silence and cloak which then led to having new traits.
I can't believe this aberation was part of NS1, it makes landing 3 bites and skulking in general too easy.
You're joking right? Move the speed upgrade off of the movement hive...really?
Ok I'll take the bait... Where could they have moved celerity? Shade or Crag hive?
What should they have moved to shift hive in place of celerity?
Please I'm dying to hear your thought process on this.
You forgot number 8) BUZZ BUZZ
It is even further absolutely fucking baffling that multiple users are throwing the solutions at the devs and then the devs 'listen to the community'... and then do something similar, but not so similar that it actually achieves what it sets out to achieve.
Again, it REEKS of the behaviour of one of those megalomaniacs who won't do anything unless they feel like it's their idea.
Steal the good idea, bloat/scramble/remove everything from it that makes it sensible, then slap it in-game as an 'experiment' (lol iz actually permanent change) and let the plebs deal with it.
More stunningly poor management of a moribund gaming community.
edit: I agree with putting something there to block that sightline, but a fewboxes would've been perfectly fine while fitting the maps theme much more.
Which is equally stupid as moving silence off the deception hive right.
Since if you take aura and silence you now actually have old celerity too so yea no.
Fact is having both creates stupidly cheesy and 1-sided gameplay. Stop ignoring that and we might have a conversation.
They also said HP bars were a QoL change. What people say, and what people do, can be two very different things.
Its the process, not the specifics of the change. They are separate things. You don't get to pick and choose which qualifies. They may be inadequate, wrong or whatever, but its still taking back a recent change.
Anyway, I'm more convinced now that rapid iteration was a mistake. Its one thing to have changes, but its another to have change for the sake of change. Lets hope they will relook some of the other recent changes now that that period has passed.
Silent movement = movement hive
Makes sense to me.. Now if they had moved Phantom in it's entirety to shift hive you might have a point...
Also I like how you completely ignored my question. Say you take celerity off of the shift hive (as you suggested) what then?
Do you put celerity on shade or crag hive?
What upgrade do you move over to shift hive in place of celerity?
Answer those two questions instead of evading and ignoring them and we might have a conversation...
Uh no, you clearly don't understand the changelog if you think that... You should go read it again.
Also facts are that Aura + Silence clearly isn't as "cheesy" as you think. As someone who only plays Alien I would actually consider it a handicap for me to take Silence + Aura over Celerity + Aura... Especially if referring to Lerks/Fade/Oni..
Absolutely not, here's some Kharaa traits 101 for you so you better understand how it works:
Celerity boost speed, adrenaline boosts speed (through blink, flap, belly slide, charge, leap), silence boost sneak, aura boost sneak,
That keeps Celerity + Silence as a possible combination of skills.. So clearly you refuse to accept that Celerity + Phantom was incredibly overpowered (way WAY more op than Silence + Aura could ever be under any circumstances)
Since you refuse to accept that fact, this is a pointless discussion.
Step 1: Don't Rambo
Step 2: Watch your corners and flanks
Step 3: Weld your teammates and ask for medpacks
Bonus: Mines and a well placed observatory
Congrats, you have successfully countered their combined abilities with teamwork and caution.
Your reactions might be slower because you're limited to vision only, and they'll know where you are, but if you act as a team then any benefit they had of moving silently will be lost as once they're spotted they effectively have the same combat capability as an alien lifeform without celerity or adrenaline.
Good luck getting your team to work with you in pub, though. :I
Actually you just have to move forward normally while continuously jumping to look behind yourself
Haha and until you actually show your source about this claim it's just an idea you pulled out your ass.
How/Why would he require a source? This is his idea of how it works/worked.
You're the one speaking nonsense here.
Shhh, I'm trying to promote teamwork.
You're funny... You have no argument so you start demanding a source..
The devs stated their motivation for splitting phantom when they did it. If you want to read it then look it up yourself. I know I'm right (and so does anyone else who read the changelog at the time) so I'm not going to waste my time linking it to someone who will just ignore it anyway.
The funniest part of this is how you're going on and on about Silence + Aura being op... Why don't you show your source? Oh wait...
Sorry you are completely wrong. I have arguments but you just ignore it, that doesn't make me wrong.
Aura + Silence makes skulking too easy, if you want more details read again previous posts and if you still don't understant you're beyond my ability to help or probably just too bad at this game to understand how it works.
And nope being dishonest and ignoring my posts won't make me wrong
And I'm not going to repeat myself 10 times over for some random retard on the internet that can't read.
Silence is a deception trait.
I've countered your arguments and like a little kid you stuck your fingers in your ears and went "lalala i can't hear you I'm right you're wrong lalala"
I'll let the posts speak for themselves. I suggest you actually look at the changelog from the build that split phantom.. You'll see how foolish you've been.
Edit: Oh yeah still waiting on your source?