A bright future of NS2 or Death?

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  • KasharicKasharic Hull, EnglandMembers, Forum Admins, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184473Posts: 722 mod
    Pelargir wrote: »
    Kasharic wrote: »

    Honestly, going F2P right now, would kill NS2 in a matter of a few months... it is FAR deeper that just "removing the price tag", without proper preparation and careful planning it can result in serious issues that would cause way more problems that even I am able to think of... and I can think of a LOT!

    Yeah, we keep having people saying it would require months to get a 'reasonable' system to work and implement a F2P model. F2P has been mentioned for months now and it was always the same arguments over and over again: 'we don't have a proper infrastructure.' or 'the current playerbase isn't low enough.'

    So let's put it this way, we need some 'major?' updates to allow the game to become F2P. But since the current focus isn't on it right now and has never been, it won't happen anytime soon. Even better, the actual state of the game is good enough to apparently not even think about going F2P, so by the time we realize we should go F2P, that would be too late because it would require too much time getting a 'proper infrastructure'.

    tl;dr F2P will never be introduced on NS2.

    Did I get it right?

    Yeah pretty much.

    I'm an advocate of F2P, and I do believe that the PDT should be working towards it... but the game isn't in a state where F2P would be beneficial at the moment, and unless the PDT do decide to work towards that goal, it will never be in the state to go F2P.

    In short, I'm all for F2P, but we need to do the prep first... no prep, no F2P.
    Meph isn't an NSL admin anymore!

    #blameHefty
    VetinariIeptBarakat
  • RadimaXRadimaX Members Join Date: 2013-02-05 Member: 182840Posts: 587 Advanced user
    the current playerbase isn't low enough.
    okey then what would it require 100 people to play the game? 10? 1?
  • MoFo1MoFo1 United StatesMembers Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Posts: 729 Advanced user
    RadimaX wrote: »
    the current playerbase isn't low enough.
    okey then what would it require 100 people to play the game? 10? 1?

    I imagine the threshold is low enough where you can't find a server to play on..

    Like combat in it's final months.. Maybe 1 or 2 servers with a dozen players across both... That's F2P time..


    I personally think combat should be the game going F2P with skins and such that transfer over to NS2. That let's people play a casual "tdm" style of NS2 until they're ready for more strategy, and having their skins transfer will encourage them to buy...
    VetinariThe_Welsh_WizardKasharicmeatmachine
  • StardogStardog Members Join Date: 2004-10-25 Member: 32448Posts: 303 Advanced user
    edited July 2016
    Zavaro wrote: »
    Nordic wrote: »
    Why do you think the engine is NS2's biggest flaw?
    Lights also eat performance significantly. It's bad. First map loads still take a long time. There's tons of reasons as to what is problematic with the engine. There's tons of things that I'm sure UWE would go back and redo if they had the experience they do now. You can't really take it back, now. I'm just hoping that an NS3 would be made on tech with more documentation and tools. UE4, I'm looking at you. For NS2, it'd probably take a year and a half to push it over to a new engine.

    Do I think that's worthwhile? Probably, yeah.
    Lights + Deferred rendering are the worst issues for me. I've been doing experiments in Unity and using Forward Rendering + lightmaps I can get 1.5-2ms at 900p, whereas in NS2 I can barely scrape 60fps most of the time at 720p. In Unity I can enable SSAO and AA at 900p and get 5.25ms (190fps).

    Any F2P game must be playable by loads of people. Lightmapped environments are a must. Dirty Bomb (released 2015) has slightly lower minimum requirements than NS2.

    I'd prefer NS2 not to go F2P (other than just making the price zero). For me it should be saved for a different game - NS3, or some community-developed NS-like game that has a simpler, cleaner art style, with levels that have less geometry to get snagged on. This would also boost modding. Currently, it's way too hard to make an NS2 level. You have be an AAA artist.
    coolitic
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The NetherlandsMembers, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Posts: 15,782 Advanced user
    Hmm, a game in the NS universe that is cleaner, more streamlined and has amazing performance hmm...

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" 

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly

    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue | 102 1HP Skulk escapes and counting

    WakecooliticAurOn2
  • umdum9umdum9 London ON.Members Join Date: 2015-01-24 Member: 201013Posts: 37 Advanced user
    Mephilles wrote: »
    @Nordic and here I am feeling like a bad player with 2.5k elo

    You and me both. I was so excited when I got into 900 hive skill.. )':
    "Eren, the difference between your judgement and ours is something that arises from the gap in our experience. But not relying on something like that is just fine. Choose. Whether you should believe in yourself, or believe in the Survey Corps, myself included. I myself don’t know… I never have. Whether I believed in my own abilities, or whether I believed in the decisions of my trusted comrades, in the end no one ever knew what the outcome would be. So I guess… you have to do your best to make a decision that you won’t regret."
    -Levi Ackerman
  • YojimboYojimbo EnglandMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2009-03-19 Member: 66806Posts: 1,252 Advanced user
    dePARA wrote: »

    I wish someone remade gorge race :(
    Today's rookies are tomorrow's vets.

    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

    George Carlin.
    meatmachinecooliticAurOn2
  • RadimaXRadimaX Members Join Date: 2013-02-05 Member: 182840Posts: 587 Advanced user
    The player base is not currently low enough to go free2play

    305 update inflating servers with BOTS to make it look like there is more players???
    4iK9OJV.png
  • TriggerHappyBroTriggerHappyBro OhioMembers, NS2 Playtester Join Date: 2016-05-23 Member: 217383Posts: 31 Advanced user
    RadimaX wrote: »
    305 update inflating servers with BOTS to make it look like there is more players???

    But bots don't show up in the server browser?
    IronHorseVetinaricooliticAurOn2
  • VetinariVetinari Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Posts: 3,469 Advanced user
    RadimaX wrote: »
    305 update inflating servers with BOTS to make it look like there is more players???

    But bots don't show up in the server browser?

    And neither do they in steam charts.
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

    I am good Onos
  • RadimaXRadimaX Members Join Date: 2013-02-05 Member: 182840Posts: 587 Advanced user
    i just started playing 305 yeah alot of 0 ping BOTS and people calling themselves BOTS getting votekicked as result lol this is awsome :)
  • dePARAdePARA Members, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Posts: 1,351 Advanced user
    edited July 2016
    @RadimaX

    Looks like you misunderstood the roles in your funny picture.
    I made a correct version for you:

    3wuOsTE.png


    image
    AurOn2
  • RadimaXRadimaX Members Join Date: 2013-02-05 Member: 182840Posts: 587 Advanced user
    what ns2 large community? i just made this topic because i saw declining playerbase so dont know what your correcting here is my match history from hive:
    n0vqmIN.png
    this topic is about free2play model not about wooza if you want to discuss other things go to that topic and post there plz @dePARA


  • dePARAdePARA Members, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Posts: 1,351 Advanced user
    edited July 2016
    Like i mentioned in the other F2P thread.
    90% of the "We need F2P NOW" people are ns2large players.

    And its great that you post your hive stats while ns2large servers are not whitelisted. Dont know what you are going to prove here.
    image
    AurOn2
  • RadimaXRadimaX Members Join Date: 2013-02-05 Member: 182840Posts: 587 Advanced user
    oh i did not know its not listed, my stats have reset many times aswell its first time i look on it for months, im just curious how you know 90% people that want free2play model i sfrom ns2large servers? i only recieve 90% backlash for having a different opinion, not sure what your stats is going to prove? that people from big servers want more players to play with when playerbase sinks to 24 players or? like does it make them a bad person what preferance of server they play on? months ago i talked about what could happen if ns2 was free i only met one person who agreed with me so your stats are not very accurate.
  • StardogStardog Members Join Date: 2004-10-25 Member: 32448Posts: 303 Advanced user
    edited July 2016
    dePARA wrote: »
    Like i mentioned in the other F2P thread.
    90% of the "We need F2P NOW" people are ns2large players.

    And its great that you post your hive stats while ns2large servers are not whitelisted. Dont know what you are going to prove here.
    I don't get what your point is. 90% of them play on Wooza's server and what...?

    Those 50+ people are ~20%+- of the entire remaining player base.
  • RadimaXRadimaX Members Join Date: 2013-02-05 Member: 182840Posts: 587 Advanced user
    he thinks that because out of hundreds of different servers i played over the years ONE of them happens to be ns2large now i magicly got converted into wanting a free2play game...

    there is ways to make a free2play experience fun but i understand why many dont want that, but thats beside the point all i want is to raise the amount of people playing the game so its not under a thousand and get the word out there, free 2 play weekend only works for some day and people forget about ns2´s existance but if it always was free anyone can get it anytime, not fearing there wont be servers/players and its to help uwe and the future of this game i want to concider this option instead of running ns2 into the ground and suddently there is nobody to play with like ns2:combat.
    BestProfileName
  • dePARAdePARA Members, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Posts: 1,351 Advanced user
    edited July 2016
    Dont know what you trying here with your spam @Radimax while the devs already explained the situation.
    Thats why you become 90% backlash. It get on people nerves.

    And yes, after nonstop whining that ns2large is losing more and more players (while its full like all the other servers out there btw) im not surprised that most of the "give us F2P NOW" yelling coming from people playing there.
    I believe you think this is the only chance to save your so loved server after every other try failed.

    And where i have my stats from?
    Simple, reading the pro and contra posts.

    I believe this would be the way to go:
    Talk to the guys of Faultline Games and try to bring back Combat to NS2. (THIS game is really dead)
    Release a very basic version from Combt as a Demo and reduce the Price of NS2 (Combat incl.) to 5$
    After Hive2.0 is ready and fully implemented and a few more tutorials are up a free weekend would help also.
    Post edited by dePARA on
    image
  • RadimaXRadimaX Members Join Date: 2013-02-05 Member: 182840Posts: 587 Advanced user
    havent yelled at anyone, also your telling "nonstop whining that ns2large is losing more and more players"
    i am talking about NS2, natural selection 2 losing players not induvidual servers again your mixing 2 different things up into 1
    tried to connect to wooza for 40 minutes today because it was full, so played on its only smellz server but even that dont show up on hive.
    it wont affect wooza if there is 300 or 3000 players but im just saying it could be possible to have more players. i cannot reccomend this game if its doomed in couple months and players who i already purchased copys for actually rather play a free2play because its better optimized.

    you keep bringing up woozas for like the 5th time on a topic about the future of this game. aswell on the other topic not sure why you are so set on talking about wooza is that all you wanna talk about? make a new topic then.
    migalskiMe9aAlite
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Posts: 2,679 Advanced user
    RadimaX wrote: »
    you keep bringing up woozas for like the 5th time on a topic about the future of this game. aswell on the other topic not sure why you are so set on talking about wooza is that all you wanna talk about? make a new topic then.

    It's depara, his hatred for anything wooza's or above 24 players has no limits. Simply ignore him or avoid falling for the bait.
    NordicVetinariWakeAlite
  • PelargirPelargir Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, WC 2013 - Silver, Forum staff Join Date: 2013-07-02 Member: 185857Posts: 1,199 mod
    dePARA wrote: »
    Thats why you become 90% backlash. It get on people nerves.

    Is there something about the 90% or you just love it?

    dePARA wrote: »
    I believe this would be the way to go:
    Talk to the guys of Faultline Games and try to bring back Combat to NS2. (THIS game is really dead)
    Release a very basic version from Combt as a Demo and reduce the Price of NS2 (Combat incl.) to 5$
    After Hive2.0 is ready and fully implemented and a few more tutorials are up a free weekend would help also.

    Fautline Games doesn't exist anymore - they're busy doing other things to live properly.
    Regarding Hive 2.0, fingers crossed, I've heard about it 2 years ago. And stop claiming free weekends would help, that's non sense, UWE has been doing it a lot and I can't say it's been successful so far. You get more people during that weekend, but that's it.

    And not 90% of the people who want the game to go F2P are NS2Large players, most of the people I talk to who, like me haven't been playing the game for months now and who are old comp players would possibly give it another go if the game ever goes F2P. I'd even say 'we do not need the game to go F2P', I perfectly live without it right now, that's more 'the game needs to go F2P'. But it's not gonna happen unless the playerbase reaches what 10 players? Can take a while if the overall number of player keeps going down slowly...
    "All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"

    "However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results."


    migalskiAlite
  • meatmachinemeatmachine South EnglandMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Join Date: 2013-01-06 Member: 177858Posts: 1,551 Advanced user
    Speaking in terms of business, I assume it'd be a risky decision to reintegrate and support Combat in NS2 due to the costs involved. However, guarantees of player retention simply don't exist this late in the game, and there is the old addage "a ship is safe at the shore, but that is not what it is built for".
    Too weird to live, yet too rare to die
    YojimboIronHorseNordicMe9a
  • RadimaXRadimaX Members Join Date: 2013-02-05 Member: 182840Posts: 587 Advanced user
    edited July 2016
    ns2 had 91 players on thursday, im not saying oh look on evolve it has so many players buying skins or whatever BUT even if its 20000 people trying the game its more likely they get something sold to 20000+ people (Even if its declining back to 1000) then 91 if this game still is a business model? if not then its not even a question just release it free...

    but you say oh just the game is not ready for that or we must optimize it or change stuff around for it to be out free...you cannot simply put 0:- price tag
    if you think they will rage on ns2 for being a free2play game that cost them absolutely nothing then why do you think so few players are around to play it NOW when it cost money? maybe those changes should be done long time ago and we would not even discuss free2play as an option to begin with? free weekend never gonna do anything the game goes back to its regular playerbase +20 people that wont help in the long run or a year from now. here is example why weekend wont work:
    qe796rg.png
  • VetinariVetinari Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Posts: 3,469 Advanced user
    @Radimax what happens, by your logic, once every human on earth owns the game?
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

    I am good Onos
  • KeatsKeats United StatesMembers, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2014-11-04 Member: 199413Posts: 154 Advanced user
    edited July 2016
    I don't know if NS2 had a free weekend in March (it might have), but I would bet the main increase there was Gorgeous.
    Edit: Or maybe you just wanted to say that free weekends generally have that shape. IGNORE ME
    PM sent.
  • RadimaXRadimaX Members Join Date: 2013-02-05 Member: 182840Posts: 587 Advanced user
    edited July 2016
    (its not made up on the fly to strengthen my argument) they did have a free2play weekend march 2013 thats why i used it as example from ns2 steam charts to show it wont work to have another one. now if that weekend gave ns2 50000 players that declined to 20000 and possibly stabilized at 10000 i would be all FOR IT still better then 91 players, but only thing that could do it now is going all free not just 2 days...

    steamcharts.com/app/4920#All
  • RevanCoranaRevanCorana Members Join Date: 2015-08-14 Member: 207125Posts: 571 Advanced user
    free2play NS2 = 64bit NS2
    it's a lot of work to rewrite it all
    Vetinaricoolitic
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