There's a whole lot of good that comes with this change, even though it definitely does mix up the meta.
Would it be possible to elaborate based on which tangible metric or measure you reflect on changes made (not just this one, but in general), or in a more blunt way: What would, hypothetically, need to happen to convince you that the addition - even though done with good intention - this doesn't work as intended (by you) and should get reverted?
The majority of voices it in this thread aren't in favor of the health bar, yet you still seem convinced that it's a good thing. Maybe it's because you see the bigger picture in which it makes perfect sense to make tracking easier for Marines - If so, why not share it? I think the past posts show very clearly that the general direction isn't understood, and the changes are mostly percieved as an attempt to mimick behaviors and designs of currently more popular games that, therefore, must be a good reference.
When I try to rationalize everything the best option i'm left with is that this is all a test/beta to see what should be implemented in a hypothetic NS3
I am still in favor of a return of the balance mod. The devs get to experiment with features, people get to give feedback, and parallely we can still play the default version of ns2 where we a guaranteed certain standards.
I'm starting to lean more towards a "classic" mod. I would name it "NS2 Chemo".
I am still in favor of a return of the balance mod. The devs get to experiment with features, people get to give feedback, and parallely we can still play the default version of ns2 where we a guaranteed certain standards.
I think the ns2 beta branch on steam is available for everyone in the public. New stuff gets tested there.
I am still in favor of a return of the balance mod. The devs get to experiment with features, people get to give feedback, and parallely we can still play the default version of ns2 where we a guaranteed certain standards.
I think the ns2 beta branch on steam is available for everyone in the public. New stuff gets "tested" there.
I am still in favor of a return of the balance mod. The devs get to experiment with features, people get to give feedback, and parallely we can still play the default version of ns2 where we a guaranteed certain standards.
I think the ns2 beta branch on steam is available for everyone in the public. New stuff gets tested there.
Yeah... so how many people play there every evening, on average? The advantage of a balance mod is that you just need to switch servers, not steam branch. It's about accessibility.
@remi The healthbars are not necessarily a bad idea at all, imo it's more to do with the lack of polish that they suffer from.
They really need a smooth shading so as to not appear/disapear instantly on the screen out of nowhere.
Maybe use the same exponential shading technique as the new crosshair hit-indicator.
Because in addition to that, there is the problem that if you hit something but you don't aim at it perfectly, the healthbar disapears, very confusing.
Imo add a guaranteed duration of the healthbar after hitting some target, like just 1 second would fix this.
This is a great idea / great point. It might not be super easy to do, but it's one of those polish things that would definitely help make it feel better.
The health bar segmentation is another thing we've talked about, independent of this change. The way insight does it communicates better info, and this is a pretty easy thing to change too as its just a texture change.
There's no question that freely available health information changes the combat dynamic in a fairly intrinsic way, beyond just a quality of life change. Obviously it's a less realistic and more arcadey mechanic. However I don't think it's a bad thing in a game where combat is incredibly hectic and difficult for new players to read. Having that information improves the perceived fairness and responsiveness of the game - if I lose a fight I know whether I was close to winning or not at all, which gives me feedback on my play. Even as a veteran player that makes the combat more enjoyable to me.
There's no question that freely available health information changes the combat dynamic in a fairly intrinsic way, beyond just a quality of life change. Obviously it's a less realistic and more arcadey mechanic. However I don't think it's a bad thing in a game where combat is incredibly hectic and difficult for new players to read. Having that information improves the perceived fairness and responsiveness of the game - if I lose a fight I know whether I was close to winning or not at all, which gives me feedback on my play. Even as a veteran player that makes the combat more enjoyable to me.
You actually raise a fair point, I was initially indifferent to the change then became less impressed as time went on however this is a good argument and may sway me alittle bit.
There's no question that freely available health information changes the combat dynamic in a fairly intrinsic way, beyond just a quality of life change. Obviously it's a less realistic and more arcadey mechanic. However I don't think it's a bad thing in a game where combat is incredibly hectic and difficult for new players to read. Having that information improves the perceived fairness and responsiveness of the game - if I lose a fight I know whether I was close to winning or not at all, which gives me feedback on my play. Even as a veteran player that makes the combat more enjoyable to me.
You actually raise a fair point, I was initially indifferent to the change then became less impressed as time went on however this is a good argument and may sway me alittle bit.
Well done sir.
In a similar facet: at first I was of no opinion, then strongly disagreed with the change, and now I've mellowed. It's definitely helped me get less angry at the game and at myself.
It also helps me wreck people better as the Gorge, and that's a win.
There's no question that freely available health information changes the combat dynamic in a fairly intrinsic way, beyond just a quality of life change. Obviously it's a less realistic and more arcadey mechanic. However I don't think it's a bad thing in a game where combat is incredibly hectic and difficult for new players to read. Having that information improves the perceived fairness and responsiveness of the game - if I lose a fight I know whether I was close to winning or not at all, which gives me feedback on my play. Even as a veteran player that makes the combat more enjoyable to me.
You actually raise a fair point, I was initially indifferent to the change then became less impressed as time went on however this is a good argument and may sway me alittle bit.
Well done sir.
In a similar facet: at first I was of no opinion, then strongly disagreed with the change, and now I've mellowed. It's definitely helped me get less angry at the game and at myself.
It also helps me wreck people better as the Gorge, and that's a win.
My secondary reaction was when tracking a target in the distance, I felt the healthbars obscured the lifeform, at close range it becomes apparent marines survival chances are increased, however the urge to parasite kill has increased so it is all swings and roundabouts. I will probably warm up to the change more in the future however I do believe it requires alot more refinement that its current form.
Can someone please reign in Wyz and his over zealous moderating? This is getting ridiculous.
No, he was in the right to edit that post. I would have done the same.
This is not an imageboard, we don't communicate or mock others with memes or pictures around here, no matter how much something upsets us or how much we want replies.
Use your words, and do so civilly, please.
In the future if you take issue with any moderating please contact them directly or myself.
I can't speak for others, but my door is always open.
Can someone please reign in Wyz and his over zealous moderating? This is getting ridiculous.
No, he was in the right to edit that post. I would have done the same.
This is not an imageboard, we don't communicate or mock others with memes or pictures around here, no matter how much something upsets us or how much we want replies.
Use your words, and do so civilly, please.
In the future if you take issue with any moderating please contact them directly or myself.
I can't speak for others, but my door is always open.
Can someone please reign in Wyz and his over zealous moderating? This is getting ridiculous.
No, he was in the right to edit that post. I would have done the same.
This is not an imageboard, we don't communicate or mock others with memes or pictures around here, no matter how much something upsets us or how much we want replies.
Use your words, and do so civilly, please.
In the future if you take issue with any moderating please contact them directly or myself.
I can't speak for others, but my door is always open.
I do not know what he posted because it got deleted so quickly, same as many other posts here. I do not know what the problem with memes is though, also I do not know when he was made moderator but when your door is open, you should either consider to eject him from the comm chair or teach him to not delete all posts only because he does not like them.
Discussing that thing makes it less fun and really draws attention from the topic. (but I disagree with IronHorse about images in this specific case, because earlier in this thread there were some discussion about non-verbal communication)
Discussing that thing makes it less fun and really draws attention from the topic. (but I disagree with IronHorse about images in this specific case, because earlier in this thread there were some discussion about non-verbal communication)
We all know communicating through the medium of dance is the best solution at this stage.
GhoulofGSG9Join Date: 2013-03-31Member: 184566Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter, Pistachionauts
edited May 2016
I want to remind everyone that this thread is about Health bars on enemies and not about our community rules and moderation guidelines.
Please stay on-topic and civil or create a new thread if you want to talk about something else!
Generally your post won't be edited or removed if they are on-topic and written in a civil tone. And images without text/description are generally considered off-topic by us.
Well since the implementation of the health bars is set in stone despite the fact that the majority of people are against it with very good arguments, whereas the pro side on health bars only brings up subjective things like: "It is more fun" or "makes games better for rookies", there is not really much left to discuss on.
FrozenNew York, NYJoin Date: 2010-07-02Member: 72228Members, Constellation
There's a toggle so I'm happy, I won't lose all my targets again with the bars popping in and out. I'll just naturally adjust to the new feel of every lifeform being a bit more fragile over the next hundred or so hours.
Sarcastic, but honestly, not sarcastic. I'll get used to it and it'll be fun feeling the difference. Learning b250 fade was great fun for a good amount of time, for instance. This is much more nuanced learning.
There's a toggle so I'm happy, I won't lose all my targets again with the bars popping in and out. I'll just naturally adjust to the new feel of every lifeform being a bit more fragile over the next hundred or so hours.
Sarcastic, but honestly, not sarcastic. I'll get used to it and it'll be fun feeling the difference. Learning b250 fade was great fun for a good amount of time, for instance. This is much more nuanced learning.
on the bright side, it's saving me bullets, the health bars are real useful on not firing an extra couple shots into a dead skulk. Don't get me wrong, i'm decent at listening and guesstimating based on the ting-tings, but this only adds to that.
i'm not going to waste 2 extra bullets on jumping skulksies no more.
I don't like the idea of beeing able to prey on low enemies with information given i am not supposed to have in the quality as it is now.
If the opposite team uses teamplay to avoid that one is focused down too easy it should be rewarded, that element of game is breaking away now.
On the one hand you insist to keep unrealistic player impairment on low hp which makes it much harder for rookies to stay on track - to keep "immersion", on the other hand you clutter in ugly dark red bars.
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
edited May 2016
Are there many FPS that have RTS elements with asymetric gameplay and a commander with top down view?
I dont understand why people think that healthbars are a "gamebreaker".
If a marine cant aim, he didnt aim better with healthbars.
Its also amusing that people complain about healthbars but have no problems with damage numbers popping up in front of them.
Lets say a vet deals 180 damage on an fade so he already knows how many hp left.
Now he can see the damage he has done.
Where is the difference?
The heallthbars didnt tell him something new.
For me it looks like "the drama" around the healthbars comes from the same people who dislike any change made in the past.
New blackmail reviews inc.
The game has issues that are really a gamebreaker like the broken skill system and the shuffle based on it.
I just wonder why noone is complaining about this.
I cant deal with these healthbars. Make dmg numbers go from green>red according to player HP and make it more visible and easier to track, maybe anchor it around the crosshair.
Oh and just make Combat part of ns2 again and have rookies learn lifeform mechanics etc there.
Comments
I'm starting to lean more towards a "classic" mod. I would name it "NS2 Chemo".
I think the ns2 beta branch on steam is available for everyone in the public. New stuff gets tested there.
FTFY
Yeah... so how many people play there every evening, on average? The advantage of a balance mod is that you just need to switch servers, not steam branch. It's about accessibility.
The health bar segmentation is another thing we've talked about, independent of this change. The way insight does it communicates better info, and this is a pretty easy thing to change too as its just a texture change.
Yes, I fixed this. You'll also get an independent toggle when the next patch hits (hopefully tomorrow).
Since when did he become a moderator?
You actually raise a fair point, I was initially indifferent to the change then became less impressed as time went on however this is a good argument and may sway me alittle bit.
Well done sir.
In a similar facet: at first I was of no opinion, then strongly disagreed with the change, and now I've mellowed. It's definitely helped me get less angry at the game and at myself.
It also helps me wreck people better as the Gorge, and that's a win.
My secondary reaction was when tracking a target in the distance, I felt the healthbars obscured the lifeform, at close range it becomes apparent marines survival chances are increased, however the urge to parasite kill has increased so it is all swings and roundabouts. I will probably warm up to the change more in the future however I do believe it requires alot more refinement that its current form.
It definitively fixes those pesky nsl fades. But you don't play Onos any more.
No, he was in the right to edit that post. I would have done the same.
This is not an imageboard, we don't communicate or mock others with memes or pictures around here, no matter how much something upsets us or how much we want replies.
Use your words, and do so civilly, please.
In the future if you take issue with any moderating please contact them directly or myself.
I can't speak for others, but my door is always open.
Heehheee, oh we love your door @IronHorse
I do not know what he posted because it got deleted so quickly, same as many other posts here. I do not know what the problem with memes is though, also I do not know when he was made moderator but when your door is open, you should either consider to eject him from the comm chair or teach him to not delete all posts only because he does not like them.
edit: To next @Yojimbo post: (audio) link
We all know communicating through the medium of dance is the best solution at this stage.
Please stay on-topic and civil or create a new thread if you want to talk about something else!
Generally your post won't be edited or removed if they are on-topic and written in a civil tone. And images without text/description are generally considered off-topic by us.
Sarcastic, but honestly, not sarcastic. I'll get used to it and it'll be fun feeling the difference. Learning b250 fade was great fun for a good amount of time, for instance. This is much more nuanced learning.
Let it go Frozen
i'm not going to waste 2 extra bullets on jumping skulksies no more.
If the opposite team uses teamplay to avoid that one is focused down too easy it should be rewarded, that element of game is breaking away now.
On the one hand you insist to keep unrealistic player impairment on low hp which makes it much harder for rookies to stay on track - to keep "immersion", on the other hand you clutter in ugly dark red bars.
I dont understand why people think that healthbars are a "gamebreaker".
If a marine cant aim, he didnt aim better with healthbars.
Its also amusing that people complain about healthbars but have no problems with damage numbers popping up in front of them.
Lets say a vet deals 180 damage on an fade so he already knows how many hp left.
Now he can see the damage he has done.
Where is the difference?
The heallthbars didnt tell him something new.
For me it looks like "the drama" around the healthbars comes from the same people who dislike any change made in the past.
New blackmail reviews inc.
The game has issues that are really a gamebreaker like the broken skill system and the shuffle based on it.
I just wonder why noone is complaining about this.
Oh and just make Combat part of ns2 again and have rookies learn lifeform mechanics etc there.