Sorry but I can't understand this community. Especially in an Early Access game where its possible to give feedback to the developers about features and so on.
What I've learned over the years: If the community want any changes from the devs they have to address problems straight away. If the devs disable one kind (maybe yours) of playing this game you have to say your opinion. Straight away. Not like sissy's.
If a player want to add 12 HC tanks in his inventory to spend the night in a coral tube so let him do this. Especially in an open game like Subnautica. Withou any restriction...
It's not about what you say but how you say it. We are the exception because the developers have earned our trust repeatedly. There's nothing wrong with stating your opinion and wishes for the game, but you need to do it in a civilized and respectful manner. Lashing out does nobody any good. All you're doing is demanding they revert to the old style without even looking for a compromise, that's not respectful to the people that wanted this change, the devs that spent time on this, and it even disrespects yourself. Would you also be demanding that the game stay on 32-bit computers because you have only that and you don't want to upgrade, even though the devs would need to remove a lot of their hard work and lower the quality?
Focus on KISS (Keep it simple stupid) or Occam's razor (cut everything not needed and take the most simple solution).
Or in this case, combine the two.
Cut the radiation gloves and have two tanks on the paper doll. They're the only gloves in the game, and after you fix the Aurora, that whole suit becomes pretty useless. It just takes up locker space. Just make the gloves part of the suit.
Focus on KISS (Keep it simple stupid) or Occam's razor (cut everything not needed and take the most simple solution).
Or in this case, combine the two.
Cut the radiation gloves and have two tanks on the paper doll. They're the only gloves in the game, and after you fix the Aurora, that whole suit becomes pretty useless. It just takes up locker space. Just make the gloves part of the suit.
Autoswitch would be a much welcome bonus too.
Good suggestion for the glove slot. Mine was different (see post above)
... Forgot that stupid, useless glove slot for the only gloves in game. That should be replaced with being able to put one big (2x2) tool or weapon into a hand/tool slot. Thus relieving you of one big tool from the inventory.
And autoswitch will probably be the only solution to satisfy pros like me and other players using 6 or more tanks in the inventory.
Then it'll be a simple tradeoff: speed vs O2 space - but without any PDA hazzle.
Hey, maybe we could even get an emergency hotkey for fast escapes before a shark gets you: Just press a hotkey to drop all inventory at once, leaving you with only paper doll equipment, but giving a speed boost once your inventory is gone. Coupled with autodrawing your equipped tool in the paper doll you could get a superfast seaglide escape or a quick aim with your stasis rifle.
Sorry but I can't understand this community. Especially in an Early Access game where its possible to give feedback to the developers about features and so on.
What I've learned over the years: If the community want any changes from the devs they have to address problems straight away. If the devs disable one kind (maybe yours) of playing this game you have to say your opinion. Straight away. Not like sissy's.
If a player want to add 12 HC tanks in his inventory to spend the night in a coral tube so let him do this. Especially in an open game like Subnautica. Withou any restriction...
It's not about what you say but how you say it. We are the exception because the developers have earned our trust repeatedly. There's nothing wrong with stating your opinion and wishes for the game, but you need to do it in a civilized and respectful manner. Lashing out does nobody any good. All you're doing is demanding they revert to the old style without even looking for a compromise, that's not respectful to the people that wanted this change, the devs that spent time on this, and it even disrespects yourself. Would you also be demanding that the game stay on 32-bit computers because you have only that and you don't want to upgrade, even though the devs would need to remove a lot of their hard work and lower the quality?
Like I see you don't get it. And your example 32/64 is not a good one. At the present time, this question should not arise. But its nice to see the thread gets life after my posts...
Cryogenic gas storage and a mixed-gas rebreather system configured for extreme depth. These technologies do exist.
Unfortunately not in the game (I heard they might do it) and I'd love to see it coming and of course saturation diving, decompression chambers, etc. But I think it's not about better tanks and breathing systems that should come.
Here I think it's more for those that want more freedom in play, hazzlefree micromanagement and no need to plan diving strategies or face the real thing. And the only thing they probably need is autoswitching of empty tanks. So I can prepare and dive with my single tank, while the others just get their inventory tanks switched at the expense of being much slower.
Unfortunately not in the game (I heard they might do it) and I'd love to see it coming and of course saturation diving, decompression chambers, etc. But I think it's not about better tanks and breathing systems that should come.
I've given up pushing the idea of incorporating an approximate form of actual gas physics in the game.
I'd be quite happy with a single advanced version of the Hi-Cap tank that provides 5 minutes of breathing mix. Do-able.
Also provides endless hours of fun watching the YouTube 'Shouty Guys' running out of lung-bung when they
inevitably forget to replenish their supply.
I also do not like this change, but to be honest the thing I objectg against is not the game mechanic, but the short diving time. Now come on, Subnautoca is an UNDERWATER game and we get 2 minutes of diving time? How are we supposed to enjoy the terrific landscape if all we can do is rush past the sights to avoid drowning?
Before the change I had the opportunity to choose, it was air supply versus inventory space (and to some degree speed) If I was exploring with the Seamoth, I took 3 air tanks, when I went wreck diving, I took 6 tanks along, simply because I did not want to drown - ever.
Now I have 1m45s with the normal tank and 2m45s with the extended, period. No choosing, no fine tuning. Now if we had like 3 different models of air tanks, a double tank which was heavier, a "normal" tank and maybe a superheavy tank for wreck diving, ok, I would say, I can still choose, the mechanics is differnt but that is ok. But these items are not in the game.
I had trouble replicating what a few people wrote about swapping air tanks in this thread: if you think this doesn't work, like I did: You have to unequip your active tank first and the reequip your other tank. I have yet to find a way to distinguish empty from full tanks. Bit I really think this mechanic is not intended and will go away so I would rather not depend on it too much.
I also do not like this change, but to be honest the thing I objectg against is not the game mechanic, but the short diving time. Now come on, Subnautoca is an UNDERWATER game and we get 2 minutes of diving time? How are we supposed to enjoy the terrific landscape if all we can do is rush past the sights to avoid drowning?
Before the change I had the opportunity to choose, it was air supply versus inventory space (and to some degree speed) If I was exploring with the Seamoth, I took 3 air tanks, when I went wreck diving, I took 6 tanks along, simply because I did not want to drown - ever.
Now I have 1m45s with the normal tank and 2m45s with the extended, period. No choosing, no fine tuning. Now if we had like 3 different models of air tanks, a double tank which was heavier, a "normal" tank and maybe a superheavy tank for wreck diving, ok, I would say, I can still choose, the mechanics is differnt but that is ok. But these items are not in the game.
I had trouble replicating what a few people wrote about swapping air tanks in this thread: if you think this doesn't work, like I did: You have to unequip your active tank first and the reequip your other tank. I have yet to find a way to distinguish empty from full tanks. Bit I really think this mechanic is not intended and will go away so I would rather not depend on it too much.
Ah, you miss time, but don't question why it takes 45sec for your lung and 60sec for a full air tank. Strange world of scuba diving if they'd tanks like this. Even if you consider that we don't speak about ingame time that runs considerably faster, the balance of lung vs tank is incredible. Maybe we should have less lung air, the lifepod a small starter tank and the fabricator and mod station the real good tanks.
And switching isn't that difficult. Tried myself:
Open PDA
Left click on equipped tank
Left click on inventory tank in upper left corner
Close PDA (but already out of trouble)
Real time: 2-3sec (that's about the time you have when vision fades at zero, so you could even do it at zero)
If they mark empty (less than 10%) tanks or color them to highlight the empty ones it would be better. But then autoswitching empty tanks is even better.
The difference would always be best as a tradeoff between space & speed vs O2 capacity. Not micromanagement hell for bad divers vs play heaven for good divers.
Ah, you miss time, but don't question why it takes 45sec for your lung and 60sec for a full air tank.
No, because that is not the problem. At least its no the problem for me.
The problem is not with my character, the problem is with me. The person in front of the monitor playing the game. I want to dive longer, I want to take in the sights. I want to play, not rush.
Whatever explanation is behind the short diving times, be it logical or not, time compression, limitations in the simulated technical equipment, this is game-mechanic, its part of the game. (Not to be confused with "no na ned - part of the game"... but that is something entirely different. :-) )
It doesn't concern the person in front of the monitor, this person is concerned about experience. And this person would still think diving time is too short if those 1m45s were perfectly balanced with the simulated day/night cycle and be divided in a believable lung vs. tank ratio.
If they mark empty (less than 10%) tanks or color them to highlight the empty ones it would be better. But then autoswitching empty tanks is even better.
I like this idea. If the tank was green we'd know if its full'ish, Yellow its about half full and Red its almost depleted. Could even put little lines in it too to show where the air level is added to the color.
Ah, you miss time, but don't question why it takes 45sec for your lung and 60sec for a full air tank.
No, because that is not the problem. At least its no the problem for me.
The problem is not with my character, the problem is with me. The person in front of the monitor playing the game. I want to dive longer, I want to take in the sights. I want to play, not rush.
Whatever explanation is behind the short diving times, be it logical or not, time compression, limitations in the simulated technical equipment, this is game-mechanic, its part of the game. (Not to be confused with "no na ned - part of the game"... but that is something entirely different. :-) )
It doesn't concern the person in front of the monitor, this person is concerned about experience. And this person would still think diving time is too short if those 1m45s were perfectly balanced with the simulated day/night cycle and be divided in a believable lung vs. tank ratio.
I'm sorry if the answer to this is obvious, but I think there's something I'm missing here. You say that you want to stay underwater indefinitely, take in the sights, and not rush. Is there some reason why you can't fulfill those desires using a Seamoth?
I also do not like this change, but to be honest the thing I objectg against is not the game mechanic, but the short diving time. Now come on, Subnautoca is an UNDERWATER game and we get 2 minutes of diving time? How are we supposed to enjoy the terrific landscape if all we can do is rush past the sights to avoid drowning?
Just in case you've never tried it, activate the unlimited "oxygen" cheat and play for a while. It's a completely different experience. With the normal short oxygen time, I feel more like a pearl diver, making a beeline for the bottom so I can grab a few resources, then zipping back up to catch my breath. With the oxygen cheat, it feels more like actual scuba diving.
I realize that tank time limit has to be scaled to suit the condensed day, and that the game needs to have challenges, but after experiencing it both ways I almost wish the developers had not put in ANY tanks! Just hold your breath. Use the Fabricator to create a bio-chip that helps you hold your breath longer, ending up with the same time underwater as we get now. Probably sounds weird, but I think it might provide a better feel in the game.
You say that you want to stay underwater indefinitely, take in the sights, and not rush. Is there some reason why you can't fulfill those desires using a Seamoth?
Putting aside the current nauseating controls for the Seamoth it doesn't quite provide the same experience / freedom as scuba diving, not to me anyway.
You say that you want to stay underwater indefinitely, take in the sights, and not rush. Is there some reason why you can't fulfill those desires using a Seamoth?
Putting aside the current nauseating controls for the Seamoth it doesn't quite provide the same experience / freedom as scuba diving, not to me anyway.
That's fair. We each have our own personal taste, and we each enjoy this game in our own way. That doesn't make any of us wrong, just different. There's no point in arguing and trying to change someone else's personal taste. All we can do is voice our opinions where the devs can see us and then move on.
No, because that is not the problem. At least its no the problem for me.
The problem is not with my character, the problem is with me. The person in front of the monitor playing the game. I want to dive longer, I want to take in the sights. I want to play, not rush.
Whatever explanation is behind the short diving times, be it logical or not, time compression, limitations in the simulated technical equipment, this is game-mechanic, its part of the game. (Not to be confused with "no na ned - part of the game"... but that is something entirely different. :-) )
It doesn't concern the person in front of the monitor, this person is concerned about experience. And this person would still think diving time is too short if those 1m45s were perfectly balanced with the simulated day/night cycle and be divided in a believable lung vs. tank ratio.
Then you should be perfect with an "autoswitch tanks on empty" system and your 3 HC tanks. That's 6m45s for you occupying 4x2 inventory and 1 doll space.
Another method, not so automatic, could be a "tank switching hotkey" that replaces an equipped tank with one of your full tanks from the inventory. Then you have the decision and still have the full experience.
If they mark empty (less than 10%) tanks or color them to highlight the empty ones it would be better. But then autoswitching empty tanks is even better.
I like this idea. If the tank was green we'd know if its full'ish, Yellow its about half full and Red its almost depleted. Could even put little lines in it too to show where the air level is added to the color.
As @Dinkelsen said, looking at the PDA breaks the underwater experience. Colorizing tanks helps to switch in less than 2 seconds, but maybe autoswitch or hotkey switching is better. The tradeoff space&speed vs O2 still holds. But you still could colorize and allow an optional or mode-dependant hotkeying or autoswitching.
I like the idea of air level on the tank (just like the devs visualize base flooding). If the tank gets a transparent air bar inside the tank it would look cool. Additionally at 30% the tank outline would go yellow and at 10% red.
Thinking more about it, I really feel there are a lot of people playing the game who like to have survival mode, but with a relaxed setting. Not so challenging. Not so real. Maybe they should have these opportunities inside a "Relaxed mode", with lowered survival rates and easier O2 solutions.
I'm sorry if the answer to this is obvious, but I think there's something I'm missing here. You say that you want to stay underwater indefinitely, take in the sights, and not rush. Is there some reason why you can't fulfill those desires using a Seamoth?
Yes, the Seamoth provides unlimited oxygen that is true, but the Seamoth cannot go everywhere, although it can go to most places. Wreck diving for instance isn't possible. I even do not mind the controls, to me they are fine. Driving the Seamoth just isn't the same as diving.
To be honest, while I do think the oxygen supply is a little low with the recent change, the balance I was aiming at is only about double the time the tank provides now. I do not need unlimited oxygen, I think an oxygen constraint is good. It is just that 2 old tanks worth of air is too little for my taste. 3 or 4 tanks woth of air would be alright. And when entering wrecks I like to be on the safe side, even if this means a slow swimming speed and small inventory.
And I miss the customizability. If I needed more air, I took along more tanks, if I needed less, I went with less tanks.
I have a very doubtful attitude to tank switching. Yes, it is possible at the moment and it even provides more air than the old method but I simply doubt that this is the way the devs envision their game. If it is, then I am wrong and all is well. I can get accustomed to switching air tanks, its ok.
But then, if I was a dev... why would I allow tank switching for extended oxygen and not simply provide more air tank models (large - small - light...) Why don't all air tanks share one oxygen amount? Why is there no auto-switching? Why do I manually have to replenish the oxygen of a tank in my inventory (by making it active)? To me there are too many hints that this is not the intended behavior. So I'd rather not get accustomed to it. Again, if it is the intended behavior, ok, no problem.
Yes, the Seamoth provides unlimited oxygen that is true, but the Seamoth cannot go everywhere, although it can go to most places. Wreck diving for instance isn't possible. I even do not mind the controls, to me they are fine. Driving the Seamoth just isn't the same as diving.
While I may have differing feelings regarding how much oxygen is necessary for wreck diving, I can still respect your assertion that using the Seamoth isn't the same as diving. As I said before, personal tastes don't make either of us wrong, just different in how we enjoy this game.
Personally, I'm hoping that they're doing this in preparation of upcoming end-game tiers of air tanks. This is the future, so surely we've invented some way of storing/pressurizing oxygen more effectively using rare and exotic materials, right? There are still a lot of raw resources that don't have any purpose yet...
Comments
It's not about what you say but how you say it. We are the exception because the developers have earned our trust repeatedly. There's nothing wrong with stating your opinion and wishes for the game, but you need to do it in a civilized and respectful manner. Lashing out does nobody any good. All you're doing is demanding they revert to the old style without even looking for a compromise, that's not respectful to the people that wanted this change, the devs that spent time on this, and it even disrespects yourself. Would you also be demanding that the game stay on 32-bit computers because you have only that and you don't want to upgrade, even though the devs would need to remove a lot of their hard work and lower the quality?
Or in this case, combine the two.
Cut the radiation gloves and have two tanks on the paper doll. They're the only gloves in the game, and after you fix the Aurora, that whole suit becomes pretty useless. It just takes up locker space. Just make the gloves part of the suit.
Autoswitch would be a much welcome bonus too.
Good suggestion for the glove slot. Mine was different (see post above)
And autoswitch will probably be the only solution to satisfy pros like me and other players using 6 or more tanks in the inventory.
Then it'll be a simple tradeoff: speed vs O2 space - but without any PDA hazzle.
Hey, maybe we could even get an emergency hotkey for fast escapes before a shark gets you: Just press a hotkey to drop all inventory at once, leaving you with only paper doll equipment, but giving a speed boost once your inventory is gone. Coupled with autodrawing your equipped tool in the paper doll you could get a superfast seaglide escape or a quick aim with your stasis rifle.
Cryogenic gas storage and a mixed-gas rebreather system configured for extreme depth. These technologies do exist.
Like I see you don't get it. And your example 32/64 is not a good one. At the present time, this question should not arise. But its nice to see the thread gets life after my posts...
Unfortunately not in the game (I heard they might do it) and I'd love to see it coming and of course saturation diving, decompression chambers, etc. But I think it's not about better tanks and breathing systems that should come.
Here I think it's more for those that want more freedom in play, hazzlefree micromanagement and no need to plan diving strategies or face the real thing. And the only thing they probably need is autoswitching of empty tanks. So I can prepare and dive with my single tank, while the others just get their inventory tanks switched at the expense of being much slower.
I've given up pushing the idea of incorporating an approximate form of actual gas physics in the game.
I'd be quite happy with a single advanced version of the Hi-Cap tank that provides 5 minutes of breathing mix. Do-able.
Also provides endless hours of fun watching the YouTube 'Shouty Guys' running out of lung-bung when they
inevitably forget to replenish their supply.
Before the change I had the opportunity to choose, it was air supply versus inventory space (and to some degree speed) If I was exploring with the Seamoth, I took 3 air tanks, when I went wreck diving, I took 6 tanks along, simply because I did not want to drown - ever.
Now I have 1m45s with the normal tank and 2m45s with the extended, period. No choosing, no fine tuning. Now if we had like 3 different models of air tanks, a double tank which was heavier, a "normal" tank and maybe a superheavy tank for wreck diving, ok, I would say, I can still choose, the mechanics is differnt but that is ok. But these items are not in the game.
I had trouble replicating what a few people wrote about swapping air tanks in this thread: if you think this doesn't work, like I did: You have to unequip your active tank first and the reequip your other tank. I have yet to find a way to distinguish empty from full tanks. Bit I really think this mechanic is not intended and will go away so I would rather not depend on it too much.
Ah, you miss time, but don't question why it takes 45sec for your lung and 60sec for a full air tank. Strange world of scuba diving if they'd tanks like this. Even if you consider that we don't speak about ingame time that runs considerably faster, the balance of lung vs tank is incredible. Maybe we should have less lung air, the lifepod a small starter tank and the fabricator and mod station the real good tanks.
And switching isn't that difficult. Tried myself:
- Open PDA
- Left click on equipped tank
- Left click on inventory tank in upper left corner
- Close PDA (but already out of trouble)
Real time: 2-3sec (that's about the time you have when vision fades at zero, so you could even do it at zero)If they mark empty (less than 10%) tanks or color them to highlight the empty ones it would be better. But then autoswitching empty tanks is even better.
The difference would always be best as a tradeoff between space & speed vs O2 capacity. Not micromanagement hell for bad divers vs play heaven for good divers.
No, because that is not the problem. At least its no the problem for me.
The problem is not with my character, the problem is with me. The person in front of the monitor playing the game. I want to dive longer, I want to take in the sights. I want to play, not rush.
Whatever explanation is behind the short diving times, be it logical or not, time compression, limitations in the simulated technical equipment, this is game-mechanic, its part of the game. (Not to be confused with "no na ned - part of the game"... but that is something entirely different. :-) )
It doesn't concern the person in front of the monitor, this person is concerned about experience. And this person would still think diving time is too short if those 1m45s were perfectly balanced with the simulated day/night cycle and be divided in a believable lung vs. tank ratio.
I like this idea. If the tank was green we'd know if its full'ish, Yellow its about half full and Red its almost depleted. Could even put little lines in it too to show where the air level is added to the color.
I'm sorry if the answer to this is obvious, but I think there's something I'm missing here. You say that you want to stay underwater indefinitely, take in the sights, and not rush. Is there some reason why you can't fulfill those desires using a Seamoth?
Just in case you've never tried it, activate the unlimited "oxygen" cheat and play for a while. It's a completely different experience. With the normal short oxygen time, I feel more like a pearl diver, making a beeline for the bottom so I can grab a few resources, then zipping back up to catch my breath. With the oxygen cheat, it feels more like actual scuba diving.
I realize that tank time limit has to be scaled to suit the condensed day, and that the game needs to have challenges, but after experiencing it both ways I almost wish the developers had not put in ANY tanks! Just hold your breath. Use the Fabricator to create a bio-chip that helps you hold your breath longer, ending up with the same time underwater as we get now. Probably sounds weird, but I think it might provide a better feel in the game.
Putting aside the current nauseating controls for the Seamoth
That's fair. We each have our own personal taste, and we each enjoy this game in our own way. That doesn't make any of us wrong, just different. There's no point in arguing and trying to change someone else's personal taste. All we can do is voice our opinions where the devs can see us and then move on.
Then you should be perfect with an "autoswitch tanks on empty" system and your 3 HC tanks. That's 6m45s for you occupying 4x2 inventory and 1 doll space.
Another method, not so automatic, could be a "tank switching hotkey" that replaces an equipped tank with one of your full tanks from the inventory. Then you have the decision and still have the full experience.
As @Dinkelsen said, looking at the PDA breaks the underwater experience. Colorizing tanks helps to switch in less than 2 seconds, but maybe autoswitch or hotkey switching is better. The tradeoff space&speed vs O2 still holds. But you still could colorize and allow an optional or mode-dependant hotkeying or autoswitching.
I like the idea of air level on the tank (just like the devs visualize base flooding). If the tank gets a transparent air bar inside the tank it would look cool. Additionally at 30% the tank outline would go yellow and at 10% red.
Thinking more about it, I really feel there are a lot of people playing the game who like to have survival mode, but with a relaxed setting. Not so challenging. Not so real. Maybe they should have these opportunities inside a "Relaxed mode", with lowered survival rates and easier O2 solutions.
Yes, the Seamoth provides unlimited oxygen that is true, but the Seamoth cannot go everywhere, although it can go to most places. Wreck diving for instance isn't possible. I even do not mind the controls, to me they are fine. Driving the Seamoth just isn't the same as diving.
To be honest, while I do think the oxygen supply is a little low with the recent change, the balance I was aiming at is only about double the time the tank provides now. I do not need unlimited oxygen, I think an oxygen constraint is good. It is just that 2 old tanks worth of air is too little for my taste. 3 or 4 tanks woth of air would be alright. And when entering wrecks I like to be on the safe side, even if this means a slow swimming speed and small inventory.
And I miss the customizability. If I needed more air, I took along more tanks, if I needed less, I went with less tanks.
I have a very doubtful attitude to tank switching. Yes, it is possible at the moment and it even provides more air than the old method but I simply doubt that this is the way the devs envision their game. If it is, then I am wrong and all is well. I can get accustomed to switching air tanks, its ok.
But then, if I was a dev... why would I allow tank switching for extended oxygen and not simply provide more air tank models (large - small - light...) Why don't all air tanks share one oxygen amount? Why is there no auto-switching? Why do I manually have to replenish the oxygen of a tank in my inventory (by making it active)? To me there are too many hints that this is not the intended behavior. So I'd rather not get accustomed to it. Again, if it is the intended behavior, ok, no problem.
While I may have differing feelings regarding how much oxygen is necessary for wreck diving, I can still respect your assertion that using the Seamoth isn't the same as diving. As I said before, personal tastes don't make either of us wrong, just different in how we enjoy this game.
Personally, I'm hoping that they're doing this in preparation of upcoming end-game tiers of air tanks. This is the future, so surely we've invented some way of storing/pressurizing oxygen more effectively using rare and exotic materials, right? There are still a lot of raw resources that don't have any purpose yet...