How could we make concede less anticlimactic? Then a discussion on end game mechanics.
Nordic
Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
If you can get your team to concede, it just ends. That is boring and anticlimactic. I often see newer players who don't fully understand the game ask "What happened, Why did we win/lose?" when a concede happens. They felt like they were not done yet.
In this thread I am not looking to discuss how to make newer players understand what is going on, but how can we can make a concede more fun for everyone.
On the TacticalGamer server we have a mod called "Win or Lose" where the winning team has 60 seconds to kill the last chair or hive. This gives a bit more closure because you feel like you actually did something. When this happens a timer shows up on the screen and says "Go kill the hive/chair." I really like this feature, but it has some problems. Players that don't play on tactical gamer are often confused as to what is happening. The regular players inform them what they need to do. I don't think this would work as well in vanilla because in a server with only rookies would not know what to do.
That is just one example of how to make concede more fun. What other ideas can we come up with?
Maybe when the aliens concede they all go xenocide. They have 10 seconds to find a marine to explode by. All aliens and alien structures would explode killing anything within a certain range. They still lose, but it gives them a little something fun to do. I don't have an equivalent idea for the marines though.
In this thread I am not looking to discuss how to make newer players understand what is going on, but how can we can make a concede more fun for everyone.
On the TacticalGamer server we have a mod called "Win or Lose" where the winning team has 60 seconds to kill the last chair or hive. This gives a bit more closure because you feel like you actually did something. When this happens a timer shows up on the screen and says "Go kill the hive/chair." I really like this feature, but it has some problems. Players that don't play on tactical gamer are often confused as to what is happening. The regular players inform them what they need to do. I don't think this would work as well in vanilla because in a server with only rookies would not know what to do.
That is just one example of how to make concede more fun. What other ideas can we come up with?
Maybe when the aliens concede they all go xenocide. They have 10 seconds to find a marine to explode by. All aliens and alien structures would explode killing anything within a certain range. They still lose, but it gives them a little something fun to do. I don't have an equivalent idea for the marines though.
Comments
Lets just make last stands so terribly boring, people will learn to concede.
LOLJK
Like that xenocide idea. Reminds me of Lemmings game concede.
Maybe some variety of random and mayhem scenarios can happen. Different thing each time. Maybe give loosing side onoses for their last life in exchange for all structures.
Some people proposed more pregame for newbies to learn. This can be natural post-game training for them too.
Though there IS a possibility it may get boring fast too. People just want to start another proper game and not doodle around. The stupid map vote delay and team making and comm choosing are bad enough delay between games already.
IDK ideas yo
Yea cus who likes healthy frame rates anyway right?
Actually, that sounds cooler as endgame tech
Can't think of an equivalent for the marines.
Who cares about frame rates with the game decided and with 60 seconds or less left in the game? :P
I don't even think it would be that bad lol
But frankly.. I'd rather spend the time to fix the need for the frequent use of concede, and just leave concede as is.
It still has a place and a use sure, but the frequency of its use speaks volumes as to a core issue with your average round, regarding slippery slopes and lack of comeback viability.
To make a game that does not have a need to concede would change a whole lot of balance things. Not only would it require more coding time, it would also take months of playtesting. In the best case scenario you might have a game that still occasionally could use a concede function. In the worst case scenario, re balancing the game pushed away the remaining player base.
A more fun concede function is more immediate. I doubt it would require much development time either.
This, but while Ode To Joy plays in the background ala Peggle.
Not a bad idea.
One of the reasons why I don't like playing there. Its annoying and pointless. When the game is over I just want to start a new game. Killing a defenseless structure and deliberately aiming away from players is not what I would call fun.
Its not perfect, and I stated as much. Seems you like concede just as it is. Do you think there could be a less anticlimactic concede that would not bother you?
Shrug. A short skippable animation?
I think that concede being anti climatic is not a problem with concede. Rather, it is because players inexplicably concede or at least seem to. If you have destroyed their last hope (hive/lifeform/base/pg/etc) and they concede, it is very clear what happened and should be satisfying enough for players. If they concede out of frustration from res pressure, it is not immediately clear to all and thus unsatisfying to those.
Also, there are players who hold very different views as to what I would consider a good game. I'm not sure if those are the majority or the minority, but there are players who very much like last stands and conceding is just out of the question to them. If they themselves refuse to concede, I don't think they like the idea of the other team conceding either.
that is, a countdown of like 30 seconds starts and if at least one player on the conceding team can stay alive, everything on the map dies.
even better, make the scenario be
Aliens:
"the Command Center is overloading the power grid, destroy it before the complex explodes!"
Marines:
"The Hive is preparing to flood the air with acidic fumes, destroy it before it finishes!
In either case, the ultimate objective of pushing a base is reinforced with players, the winning team still gets to crush the losing team, but the losing team gets that "moral victory" of taking the enemy with them.
I always try to encourage the losing team (marines) to kill at least one hive at the end of the game in a base trade. This seems to make people feel better as they at least feel like they did some damage.
Of course this kind of thing is pointless and will "extend" the game, but its a short time of playing with different rules. I doubt it will become annoying to most.
By the way, 90th viewer!
This is a much cooler version of the mod on Tactical Gamer.
Thats pretty cool, what about a selection of different scenarios that randomly take place, so that conceding isn't exactly the same each time, while still completing the same or similar objective?
I also agree with Ironhorse about the frequency of concede, but maybe fixing that + adding this would make it rarer and more exciting.
In the same way a spectre in dota 2 gets a radiance item, its pretty tough before then but that can bring you back or when zerg techs to ultras/cracklings in SC2. It's not specifically about adding some "epic" moment, its just stupid and not needed. The community and the playerbase needs to teach others that conceding just before you get fades, lerks, onos, shotguns, jetpacks, exos is completely stupid and people should challenge conceders about why they are conceding. It's not impossible to do this. The playerbase is fairly small anyway, attitudes and cognitive trends can persist across multiple servers without need for wacky concede scenarios.
I don't think punishing people for using a feature of the game is a good idea.
There are many times where the game simply cannot be won due to skill imbalance or just pure luck, and players shouldn't be punished for these scenarios as they are frustrating enough as it is.
Honestly, I think having the losing team die in a "player hunt" or "self destruct" scenario will help deter conceding since they actually die, rather than just see the "you lose" banner. This is obviously just guessing, but registering another guaranteed death in their stats may be enough of a deterrent
But yea, would require playtesting like anything.
I'd hope concede still exists, as i said previously it definitely serves a needed function, not all games can or should be salvaged.
I sincerely doubt making early game aliens stronger (where they are arguably too weak) and making late game marine tech more available and fun would push any players away..
Big logo on the screen: "Bloodshed hoo ha hooo!!! get close to an enemy!!!"
Make every player on the loosing side explosive with a 50% HP buff.
So one player should get close to the the other; leading to a big bloodshed. It should be fast.
So when when a winner kills a looser; it explodes...
Lots of blood decal everywhere.
(i mean it's dumb enough to be fast)
Fades at 8 minutes seem a fairly even game and I don't think anyone should be conceding those aliens or marines. When people want to concede early, its because TEAMS ARE UNBALANCED and the other team doesn't want to commit to ending the game to ensure a safe win.
Also, "most" and "majority" doesn't mean much. Is it closer to 51%, 75% or 99%? Regardless, games that should be conceded before 8 minutes happen often enough and limiting concede just leads to people asking for F4s. I swear, concede haters never played NS1 or NS2 before concede. The issue is not the mechanic. It is people giving up. I enjoy concede a lot more than having half my team afk/in ready room/browsing other servers. It already happens with concede and it will just get worse without it.
I am all for making concede more "exciting" and/or reducing its need but removing it is a major step backwards.
@IronHorse
Why do you hate aliens so? Always marine buffs and alien nerfs with you.
So far there have been a few good ideas on what such "fun" concede endings would be.
I like Benson "Nuclear Option" ending.
I also like the "Hunt" ending idea.
A countdown is started for 60 seconds. The round ends in 60 seconds, or when all players will are dead. The winning team should be able to easily kill all the enemy players in less time though.
The winning team has all tech upgraded automatically. If a structure like a prototype lab 3 shells is not built, one will be automatically placed. All players on the winning team will get 100 pres. Marines will be beaconed back to base so they can buy their tech. Aliens don't need a similar mechanic because they can evolve anywhere. All enemies are shown on the map, so no one can hide. Marines are given a permanent catpack effect.
The losing team loses all tres, all pres, and all upgrades. Aliens get to keep their lifeforms but have no upgrades. The losing teams health decreases at a rate that they will die in 60 seconds.
Marines:
"The hive mind committed suicide killing all hives. Make sure no kharra are left alive."
Aliens:
"The TSF has decided to pull out, and they remotely destroyed all command chairs. Make sure no marines are left alive."