Meatmachine and all the people disaNearlygreeing with my posts, you guys realize the only topics on either board (Steam or this one) that get a decent amount of posts are the ones about cheating or why the game is dead/dying? I'm sure you guys just think all those posters are just baddies who didn't "git gud".
Keeping your heads in the ground doesn't stop the sky from falling. Then again, in the case of NS2, the sky fell a long time ago.
And do any of these posts have any actual proof?
And that's why nobody takes em seriously. It is a matter of skill. Nearly 3 yrs out and I've seen maybe 2 ever, and these were years ago.
The people left who play generally have a lot of time invested into the game, it's very easy to percieve these players as cheating.. but really... they're just better.
ran into one guy pretty suspicious recently, he got pretty terrible pretty fast as soon as i jumped to specc.
beyond that, i get suspicious when i die a little too fast, with a few too few bullets.
If they're not killing me fast enough to arouse my suspicion, they're not a problem. If they 180 me, i just assume i made a noise or got unlucky and popped on their minimap.
the assumption you need to make with good players is, if you can see them, they also know exactly where you are, even if you're looking at their backside. so you play accordingly, assume that all your preperation, all your sneaking, at most buys you half a second in an engagement, and hope that's enough. Assume they'll hit like golden, and one skulk will die to one marine in every engagement, so you have to throw 2 at one, 3 at 2 etc.
mano a mano isn't going to work with people that can aim, you gotta hit them in lopsided engagements to break even.
Meatmachine and all the people disaNearlygreeing with my posts, you guys realize the only topics on either board (Steam or this one) that get a decent amount of posts are the ones about cheating or why the game is dead/dying? I'm sure you guys just think all those posters are just baddies who didn't "git gud".
Keeping your heads in the ground doesn't stop the sky from falling. Then again, in the case of NS2, the sky fell a long time ago.
And do any of these posts have any actual proof?
Unfortunately it is nearly impossible to prove cheating beyond a shadow a doubt. People have cheated in LAN tournaments for counterstrike, tournaments where referees could literally look over their shoulders. Many cheats have no HUD's showing on the screen, so even setting up a video camera in the room of the cheaters wouldn't prove anything in many cases.
Technology is great, but can also be very not so great.
you're also assuming there's an incentive to hide it, or be non-blatant while cheating here vs in CS. yes, very subtle wall hacks in CS... but there's also money on the line, and in person tournaments.
in NS2, no money, and by and large not many consequences to being called out other than a ban from a single server... which can get evaded by popping what, 15 buck?
there's simply no incentive to making or using something super subtle.
So what do you propose as valid proof? Surely just "snapping" to a skulk wouldn't suffice, neither would aiming at a skulk through a wall since skulks can be heard through walls. So is there anything that would satisfy you other than a written time-stamped confession signed in blood?
you're also assuming there's an incentive to hide it, or be non-blatant while cheating here vs in CS. yes, very subtle wall hacks in CS... but there's also money on the line, and in person tournaments.
in NS2, no money, and by and large not many consequences to being called out other than a ban from a single server... which can get evaded by popping what, 15 buck?
there's simply no incentive to making or using something super subtle.
Reputation is a major thing to alot of people. Plus, what about voice chat? If you get banned from a server, re-buy the game, and then log back into the server using the same voice, people would recognize you. There is plenty of voice changing software, but everyone will always wonder why you use it.
So is there anything that would satisfy you other than a written time-stamped confession signed in blood?
Yes, video proof. Or show me the ns2+ stats afterwards that shows their accuracy. I've never used, but have seen videos of aim bot. They don't miss unless they prefire at a wall or some other obstacle. As far as wall hacking.. is that something that will really provide a huge advantage in this game? Aliens already have it. If you have map awareness or experience as a marine, you're half-way there. So comes back to aim-botting being the only reasonable hack to use (would it help with aliens?). You would see it in their accuracy.
As @amoral said, sometimes it may seem suspicious when you die too fast, and yes I've experienced that too. But I think that's something I can safely chalk up to net-code/interpolation, especially when I notice who it was who killed me. 9 times out of 10, it's someone I know is just an eagle-eye.
@Farewelltoarms, cheating affects other games FAAAAAAAR more than it does ns2 as I'd say 99 percent of our players do not cheat. Your "hacks" are a problem of skill ceiling.
Yet other games with more cheaters are vastly more popular, so your logic does not stand
What other online multiplayer competitive FPS games on the PC are popular?
Counterstrike GO? It's only successful because of trading/$9000 knife skins/and the legacy of its predecessors.
Team Fortress 2? Hats, hats, and then some more hats
Call of Duty? Kids want to make 360 no scope kill montage videos
Battlefield/Hardline/Bad Company? Nothing more than a way for people to justify their $3000 computers because.... GRAPHIX
Arma/Red Orchestra? Realistic war-sims for people who want PTSD but don't want to join the military.
Basically, all the games I listed are only popular because of their "gimmicks". However they would all most likely be even more popular if their cheater numbers went down.
NS2 has no gimmick (RTS elements are a liability if anything) and so it can't maintain a strong playerbase while at the same time being burdened with cheating.
Also, all the games I mentioned above are not asymmetrical, meaning even the cheaters themselves are on an equal playing field relative to other cheaters. Meanwhile in NS2, even if a fade has an aimbot/wallhack/cham/speedhack/automatic bunnyhop, he is still going to get REKT by a marine who has the same cheats. So not only are non-cheating players turned off by the cheaters, but the cheaters themselves are turned off by the game because they know they are going to lose 100% of their matches when they are playing an evenly matched marine team.
So is there anything that would satisfy you other than a written time-stamped confession signed in blood?
Yes, video proof. Or show me the ns2+ stats afterwards that shows their accuracy. I've never used, but have seen videos of aim bot. They don't miss unless they prefire at a wall or some other obstacle. As far as wall hacking.. is that something that will really provide a huge advantage in this game? Aliens already have it. If you have map awareness or experience as a marine, you're half-way there. So comes back to aim-botting being the only reasonable hack to use (would it help with aliens?). You would see it in their accuracy.
As @amoral said, sometimes it may seem suspicious when you die too fast, and yes I've experienced that too. But I think that's something I can safely chalk up to net-code/interpolation, especially when I notice who it was who killed me. 9 times out of 10, it's someone I know is just an eagle-eye.
Yes wall hacks are still a major advantage, obviously. Scent if frar doesnt even make it clear the depth of where someone is, but model size is perfect. Also shade is rare and stupid and silence is a better choice for half the lifeforms
you're also assuming there's an incentive to hide it, or be non-blatant while cheating here vs in CS. yes, very subtle wall hacks in CS... but there's also money on the line, and in person tournaments.
in NS2, no money, and by and large not many consequences to being called out other than a ban from a single server... which can get evaded by popping what, 15 buck?
there's simply no incentive to making or using something super subtle.
Reputation is a major thing to alot of people. Plus, what about voice chat? If you get banned from a server, re-buy the game, and then log back into the server using the same voice, people would recognize you. There is plenty of voice changing software, but everyone will always wonder why you use it.
it's small enough, but nah, unless you're a baritone or a soprano, i don't think voice ID is all that accurate or reliable.
most people just sound like dudes ages 18-35 with terrible mics.
and a couple of real ghetto sounding black guys, and some girls, and some babies.
So is there anything that would satisfy you other than a written time-stamped confession signed in blood?
Yes, video proof. Or show me the ns2+ stats afterwards that shows their accuracy. I've never used, but have seen videos of aim bot. They don't miss unless they prefire at a wall or some other obstacle. As far as wall hacking.. is that something that will really provide a huge advantage in this game? Aliens already have it. If you have map awareness or experience as a marine, you're half-way there. So comes back to aim-botting being the only reasonable hack to use (would it help with aliens?). You would see it in their accuracy.
As @amoral said, sometimes it may seem suspicious when you die too fast, and yes I've experienced that too. But I think that's something I can safely chalk up to net-code/interpolation, especially when I notice who it was who killed me. 9 times out of 10, it's someone I know is just an eagle-eye.
nah, what i'm talking about isn't exactly like that, i know how long it takes to kill me, split second. yeah. I also know how long it takes to react to me, and that's sometimes the problem. When you start dying with almost the minimum number of bullets fired, but also as soon as he could start firing at you.
even good players need time to react, It becomes a problem when I'm the one starting the engagement, and I die as i'm locating him on my screen. reactions too fast.
Yes wall hacks are still a major advantage, obviously.
I can't deny that. All I'm saying is if you have shit aim, walling isnt going to necessarily be game changing. But if you have wallhack, you probably have an accompanying aimbot. I just think that aim would be the more tell-tale sign.
@amoral, I dunno. I think I do know what you're talking about... but if you watch some of these high level player's pov's, they cut skulks down as you described. I just don't think I've encountered what you're describing to an extent that I was convinced it was foul. The closest thing I can think of is that I've heard that binding primary fire to scrollwheel can increase rof on the pistol, but I've never tested to confirm.
I'm just dubious of the existence of many hackers in the game, if any. I just really would want to see solid (current) proof.
I really dont think there is that many hackers on public servers.
I dont cheat and im mid skilled in the competitive scene and whereas the best guys slaughter me in PCW's and i feel like a complete noob, when im on public i feel like a god and unless there are other competitive players on the server its not unusual to be top of the team with 20 kills and 3 deaths and get called a hacker.
You can watch some rubbish vids of me playing first person here-
I don't think I've ever played another FPS that has less hackers than NS2. There's just a much much bigger skill gap between new/casual players and those who have gotten really good at this game. It can be like pitting casuals who've never played a fps in their lives against Quake veterans.
When NS2 was released, the thing that was holding it back the most was piss-poor performance and everlasting loading times. Now the thing scaring off new players is simply the skill gap.
Going F2P is the last card left to play, but it needs to be handled really carefully. Only got one shot at it.
Comments
ran into one guy pretty suspicious recently, he got pretty terrible pretty fast as soon as i jumped to specc.
beyond that, i get suspicious when i die a little too fast, with a few too few bullets.
If they're not killing me fast enough to arouse my suspicion, they're not a problem. If they 180 me, i just assume i made a noise or got unlucky and popped on their minimap.
the assumption you need to make with good players is, if you can see them, they also know exactly where you are, even if you're looking at their backside. so you play accordingly, assume that all your preperation, all your sneaking, at most buys you half a second in an engagement, and hope that's enough. Assume they'll hit like golden, and one skulk will die to one marine in every engagement, so you have to throw 2 at one, 3 at 2 etc.
mano a mano isn't going to work with people that can aim, you gotta hit them in lopsided engagements to break even.
you're also assuming there's an incentive to hide it, or be non-blatant while cheating here vs in CS. yes, very subtle wall hacks in CS... but there's also money on the line, and in person tournaments.
in NS2, no money, and by and large not many consequences to being called out other than a ban from a single server... which can get evaded by popping what, 15 buck?
there's simply no incentive to making or using something super subtle.
So what do you propose as valid proof? Surely just "snapping" to a skulk wouldn't suffice, neither would aiming at a skulk through a wall since skulks can be heard through walls. So is there anything that would satisfy you other than a written time-stamped confession signed in blood?
Reputation is a major thing to alot of people. Plus, what about voice chat? If you get banned from a server, re-buy the game, and then log back into the server using the same voice, people would recognize you. There is plenty of voice changing software, but everyone will always wonder why you use it.
Yes, video proof. Or show me the ns2+ stats afterwards that shows their accuracy. I've never used, but have seen videos of aim bot. They don't miss unless they prefire at a wall or some other obstacle. As far as wall hacking.. is that something that will really provide a huge advantage in this game? Aliens already have it. If you have map awareness or experience as a marine, you're half-way there. So comes back to aim-botting being the only reasonable hack to use (would it help with aliens?). You would see it in their accuracy.
As @amoral said, sometimes it may seem suspicious when you die too fast, and yes I've experienced that too. But I think that's something I can safely chalk up to net-code/interpolation, especially when I notice who it was who killed me. 9 times out of 10, it's someone I know is just an eagle-eye.
Yes wall hacks are still a major advantage, obviously. Scent if frar doesnt even make it clear the depth of where someone is, but model size is perfect. Also shade is rare and stupid and silence is a better choice for half the lifeforms
it's small enough, but nah, unless you're a baritone or a soprano, i don't think voice ID is all that accurate or reliable.
most people just sound like dudes ages 18-35 with terrible mics.
and a couple of real ghetto sounding black guys, and some girls, and some babies.
... through terrible mics.
and, if you say so. about that reputation thing.
nah, what i'm talking about isn't exactly like that, i know how long it takes to kill me, split second. yeah. I also know how long it takes to react to me, and that's sometimes the problem. When you start dying with almost the minimum number of bullets fired, but also as soon as he could start firing at you.
even good players need time to react, It becomes a problem when I'm the one starting the engagement, and I die as i'm locating him on my screen.
I can't deny that. All I'm saying is if you have shit aim, walling isnt going to necessarily be game changing. But if you have wallhack, you probably have an accompanying aimbot. I just think that aim would be the more tell-tale sign.
@amoral, I dunno. I think I do know what you're talking about... but if you watch some of these high level player's pov's, they cut skulks down as you described. I just don't think I've encountered what you're describing to an extent that I was convinced it was foul. The closest thing I can think of is that I've heard that binding primary fire to scrollwheel can increase rof on the pistol, but I've never tested to confirm.
I'm just dubious of the existence of many hackers in the game, if any. I just really would want to see solid (current) proof.
I dont cheat and im mid skilled in the competitive scene and whereas the best guys slaughter me in PCW's and i feel like a complete noob, when im on public i feel like a god and unless there are other competitive players on the server its not unusual to be top of the team with 20 kills and 3 deaths and get called a hacker.
You can watch some rubbish vids of me playing first person here-
http://www.twitch.tv/skyicens2/v/21244022
When NS2 was released, the thing that was holding it back the most was piss-poor performance and everlasting loading times. Now the thing scaring off new players is simply the skill gap.
Going F2P is the last card left to play, but it needs to be handled really carefully. Only got one shot at it.
And this aimbot guy was so obvious it was laughable.
You think you did. Although there aren't many cheaters on NS2, there are still more than one or two.