Nationalism and Ns2

NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
The other day I was spectating on my regular server. There was a European spectating with me. He said that Americans play too defensively. My regular server does tend to play a bit to defensively as marines, even compared to other American servers so it seems like it could be true. This was not the first time I have heard a comment like this either.

Are Europeans more aggressive in their play? Are Americans really that defensive? Is this just a public difference, or does it apply to competitive ns2 also?
I have also heard that Aus players are/were bad ass in their play of ns2? Is/ this true?

How do different regions of the world differ in their approach to playing ns2?
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Comments

  • PelargirPelargir Join Date: 2013-07-02 Member: 185857Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, WC 2013 - Silver, Forum staff
    I like the title of your thread.

    Personally, I don't necessarily play the same way all the games.
  • MephillesMephilles Germany Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer
    I can only speak for myself here but I think russians have a very weird way of playing ns2 the only exception is maybe crazycat (I don't mean his team... only him)
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    Pelargir wrote: »
    I like the title of your thread.

    Personally, I don't necessarily play the same way all the games.
    I was hoping the title might turn some heads.

    Sure, I play differently in different games myself all depending on my mood. I don't know if I could call what I do rather defensive or rather offensive. During the most recent draft tournament, our commander kept saying "Don't be pussy" in a Russian accent most of us were trying to be defensive.
    Mephilles wrote: »
    I can only speak for myself here but I think russians have a very weird way of playing ns2 the only exception is maybe crazycat (I don't mean his team... only him)

    This is what I am talking about. Russia has its own separate ns2 community in many ways. I hear things like this, that Russians play weird. But HOW do they play weird? What is different?
  • PelargirPelargir Join Date: 2013-07-02 Member: 185857Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, WC 2013 - Silver, Forum staff
    I must agree that Russians have some kind of different gameplay. Some might say it's not really efficient though. And I mean public Russian players. But again, I play differently depending of the situation, who's playing with me and against me. Such various factors allow me to play either defensive or aggressive if needs be. I won't push if there are already people doing so for instance, it's basically my feeling on NS2. I don't have otherwise a particular role.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited July 2015
    Pelargir wrote: »
    I must agree that Russians have some kind of different gameplay. Some might say it's not really efficient though. And I mean public Russian players.
    You torment me with your vagueness.
  • PelargirPelargir Join Date: 2013-07-02 Member: 185857Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, WC 2013 - Silver, Forum staff
    Nordic wrote: »
    Pelargir wrote: »
    I must agree that Russians have some kind of different gameplay. Some might say it's not really efficient though. And I mean public Russian players.
    Your torment me with your vagueness.

    In other words, they play bad and I don't understand why the level is so low on their servers. You got it now? I still prefer my first sentence...
  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
    yeh, russian pub servers have a odd amount of low skilled players.
  • ZavaroZavaro Tucson, Arizona Join Date: 2005-02-14 Member: 41174Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
    Russian pubs are great because everybody is always having a good time. Russians best group na
  • EggOfAwesomeEggOfAwesome Join Date: 2015-01-31 Member: 201139Members
    What about Canadians? Literally, is there no Canadian ns2 community or what? 35 million of us, yet I seem to be the only one playing ns2 :s
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    What about Canadians? Literally, is there no Canadian ns2 community or what? 35 million of us, yet I seem to be the only one playing ns2 :s
    I said Americans, but it is the NA community. For all intents and purposes your American in this thread.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    Nordic wrote: »
    What about Canadians? Literally, is there no Canadian ns2 community or what? 35 million of us, yet I seem to be the only one playing ns2 :s
    I said Americans, but it is the NA community. For all intents and purposes your American in this thread.
    Welcome to the party downstairs
  • RaZDaZRaZDaZ Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167331Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited July 2015
    I'd say its more to do with the quality of players. The more experienced and skilled the player is, the greater the tendency of high aggression. This is particularly pertinent in SC2 where Korean players are extremely aggressive compared to their NA and EU counterparts. They can just execute it much better. The korean ladder is known for having very aggressive players there particularly terrans whereas in EU or NA, the amount of aggression is much lower.

    A greater knowledge of the game and confidence of your own abilities allows you to play much more aggressively than otherwise another less skilled player normally would since you are more qualified to quickly analyse the situation and execute a strategy.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    RaZDaZ wrote: »
    I'd say its more to do with the quality of players. The more experienced and skilled the player is, the greater the tendency of high aggression. This is particularly pertinent in SC2 where Korean players are extremely aggressive compared to their NA and EU counterparts. They can just execute it much better. The korean ladder is known for having very aggressive players there particularly terrans whereas in EU or NA, the amount of aggression is much lower.

    A greater knowledge of the game and confidence of your own abilities allows you to play much more aggressively than otherwise another less skilled player normally would since you are more qualified to quickly analyse the situation and execute a strategy.
    That is a pretty good answer. By what I have heard that EU players are more aggressive than NA players, and AUS players are just badass... Does that mean that AUS > EU > NA in terms of general skill?
  • 2cough2cough Rocky Mountain High Join Date: 2013-03-14 Member: 183952Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    I've had some pretty enjoyable games on the Russian servers. Seems almost like how pubs were shortly after release when there were still a lot of people playing and everyone was sort of on par with one another as far as the learning curve.
  • AeglosAeglos Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Members
    Nordic wrote: »
    RaZDaZ wrote: »
    I'd say its more to do with the quality of players. The more experienced and skilled the player is, the greater the tendency of high aggression. This is particularly pertinent in SC2 where Korean players are extremely aggressive compared to their NA and EU counterparts. They can just execute it much better. The korean ladder is known for having very aggressive players there particularly terrans whereas in EU or NA, the amount of aggression is much lower.

    A greater knowledge of the game and confidence of your own abilities allows you to play much more aggressively than otherwise another less skilled player normally would since you are more qualified to quickly analyse the situation and execute a strategy.
    That is a pretty good answer. By what I have heard that EU players are more aggressive than NA players, and AUS players are just badass... Does that mean that AUS > EU > NA in terms of general skill?

    I think the main difference is that NA has a lot more players and servers and there isn't much of a community. I think its partially because there is a steady stream of players starting the game and quitting after a few weeks which results in individuals improving but not the server and then that results in the skill stagnating. AU and JP had less players and only a couple of servers each, so they have more of a community, play longer and eventually get better. Those that don't improve tend to migrate to other games or servers.

    For any pub server you play on, if you have regulars, they should be considerably higher skilled than the rest the average servers anywhere.
  • DaweiDawei Australia Join Date: 2013-12-23 Member: 190664Members
    edited July 2015
    Nordic wrote: »
    ...Does that mean that AUS > EU > NA in terms of general skill?
    Probably not anymore, but half a year ago AUS pub games definitely had a high level of general skill - maybe even higher than Calego's/Medi's No Rookie captains servers. And often more than half the server would be competitive players. People actually welded each other (even the non-comp players) and a lot of the time the commanders had competitive experience too and even medded without you calling. But nowadays many top players have moved onto CSGO and Dirtybomb and there's been a moderate resurgence of low skill players.

    Another thing I've noticed is that American pub commanders get phase gates way too early. They research phase tech before even getting weapons 1 with the expectation of securing tech points but by the time it's finished, aliens have taken 60-75% map control and phase tech never gets a chance to be used. Perhaps this contributes a lot to the 'defensiveness' in American pubs?
  • PelargirPelargir Join Date: 2013-07-02 Member: 185857Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, WC 2013 - Silver, Forum staff
    Dawei wrote: »
    Nordic wrote: »
    ...Does that mean that AUS > EU > NA in terms of general skill?
    Probably not anymore, but half a year ago AUS pub games definitely had a high level of general skill - maybe even higher than Calego's/Medi's No Rookie captains servers. And often more than half the server would be competitive players. People actually welded each other (even the non-comp players) and a lot of the time the commanders had competitive experience too and even medded without you calling. But nowadays many top players have moved onto CSGO and Dirtybomb and there's been a moderate resurgence of low skill players.

    Another thing I've noticed is that American pub commanders get phase gates way too early. They research phase tech before even getting weapons 1 with the expectation of securing tech points but by the time it's finished, aliens have taken 60-75% map control and phase tech never gets a chance to be used. Perhaps this contributes a lot to the 'defensiveness' in American pubs?

    I'm sorry but I played a couple of times on AUS at that time and the level wasn't this high to be honest. The most popular EU servers gathered better players in my opinion, so you take away the random servers and rookie friendly ones. Maybe your players were more intelligent in their way to play the game, as you said, welding each other, and that kind of stuff but the overall skill, the individual skill level was at best, equal to those EU servers I'm referring to. Despite the silly ping difference between me and you, I've never felt any kind of difficulty or hard challenge. And well, the lesser amount of servers might help to gather up all the players onto one or two servers and therefore, increase this skill level, I guess.
  • SebSeb Melbourne, AU Join Date: 2013-04-01 Member: 184576Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, WC 2013 - Silver, Retired Community Developer
    Pelargir wrote: »
    Dawei wrote: »
    Nordic wrote: »
    ...Does that mean that AUS > EU > NA in terms of general skill?
    Probably not anymore, but half a year ago AUS pub games definitely had a high level of general skill - maybe even higher than Calego's/Medi's No Rookie captains servers. And often more than half the server would be competitive players. People actually welded each other (even the non-comp players) and a lot of the time the commanders had competitive experience too and even medded without you calling. But nowadays many top players have moved onto CSGO and Dirtybomb and there's been a moderate resurgence of low skill players.

    Another thing I've noticed is that American pub commanders get phase gates way too early. They research phase tech before even getting weapons 1 with the expectation of securing tech points but by the time it's finished, aliens have taken 60-75% map control and phase tech never gets a chance to be used. Perhaps this contributes a lot to the 'defensiveness' in American pubs?

    I'm sorry but I played a couple of times on AUS at that time and the level wasn't this high to be honest. The most popular EU servers gathered better players in my opinion, so you take away the random servers and rookie friendly ones. Maybe your players were more intelligent in their way to play the game, as you said, welding each other, and that kind of stuff but the overall skill, the individual skill level was at best, equal to those EU servers I'm referring to. Despite the silly ping difference between me and you, I've never felt any kind of difficulty or hard challenge. And well, the lesser amount of servers might help to gather up all the players onto one or two servers and therefore, increase this skill level, I guess.

    Pela is just a stick in the mud, it depends when you played, with any server the skill will vary depending on who's in the game. I've had games on Aus servers where it felt like a 9v9 comp game and also games where I've just alt-f4'd immediately.
  • PelargirPelargir Join Date: 2013-07-02 Member: 185857Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, WC 2013 - Silver, Forum staff
    Seb wrote: »
    Pelargir wrote: »
    Dawei wrote: »
    Nordic wrote: »
    ...Does that mean that AUS > EU > NA in terms of general skill?
    Probably not anymore, but half a year ago AUS pub games definitely had a high level of general skill - maybe even higher than Calego's/Medi's No Rookie captains servers. And often more than half the server would be competitive players. People actually welded each other (even the non-comp players) and a lot of the time the commanders had competitive experience too and even medded without you calling. But nowadays many top players have moved onto CSGO and Dirtybomb and there's been a moderate resurgence of low skill players.

    Another thing I've noticed is that American pub commanders get phase gates way too early. They research phase tech before even getting weapons 1 with the expectation of securing tech points but by the time it's finished, aliens have taken 60-75% map control and phase tech never gets a chance to be used. Perhaps this contributes a lot to the 'defensiveness' in American pubs?

    I'm sorry but I played a couple of times on AUS at that time and the level wasn't this high to be honest. The most popular EU servers gathered better players in my opinion, so you take away the random servers and rookie friendly ones. Maybe your players were more intelligent in their way to play the game, as you said, welding each other, and that kind of stuff but the overall skill, the individual skill level was at best, equal to those EU servers I'm referring to. Despite the silly ping difference between me and you, I've never felt any kind of difficulty or hard challenge. And well, the lesser amount of servers might help to gather up all the players onto one or two servers and therefore, increase this skill level, I guess.

    Pela is just a stick in the mud, it depends when you played, with any server the skill will vary depending on who's in the game. I've had games on Aus servers where it felt like a 9v9 comp game and also games where I've just alt-f4'd immediately.

    Mainly EU mornings so AUS evenings. But I agree, there are good and bad players in every countries. To me, there's no continent with a higher skill level in overall. Only servers at best.
  • EggOfAwesomeEggOfAwesome Join Date: 2015-01-31 Member: 201139Members
    Nordic wrote: »
    What about Canadians? Literally, is there no Canadian ns2 community or what? 35 million of us, yet I seem to be the only one playing ns2 :s
    I said Americans, but it is the NA community. For all intents and purposes your American in this thread.
    If you mean that, what would France count as? Just off the coast of Newfoundland they own an island or two, yet France is in europe too. So, mind blown. French ns2 is both EU and NA. B)
  • YojimboYojimbo England Join Date: 2009-03-19 Member: 66806Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    You should see the Japanese players, there's no need to research xenocide!
  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    Hmm, so I'm a European with a Japanese play style :D
  • TheriusTherius Join Date: 2009-03-06 Member: 66642Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    Now this is just an anecdote, but in my games, more often than not when the commander discourages people from pushing and goes straight for safe phase gates, they have been American. Most of the arguments I've had with a commander who does not drop a single medpack to the marine who got to the alien natural within the first minute, telling them to "go with the team, stop ramboing, you are useless alone", has been with an American. And they tend to be extremely vocal about their absolute confidence in them being in the right.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited July 2015
    Therius wrote: »
    Now this is just an anecdote, but in my games, more often than not when the commander discourages people from pushing and goes straight for safe phase gates, they have been American. Most of the arguments I've had with a commander who does not drop a single medpack to the marine who got to the alien natural within the first minute, telling them to "go with the team, stop ramboing, you are useless alone", has been with an American. And they tend to be extremely vocal about their absolute confidence in them being in the right.
    That is the kind of anecdotal nationalism I am looking for! Although that is not how I, an American, play ns2.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    The Dutch just flood the base and then reclaim the land...
  • 2cough2cough Rocky Mountain High Join Date: 2013-03-14 Member: 183952Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    Guess what, I've had shit commanders in russian servers, eu servers, and na servers... go figure.

    There are top tiers and low tiers wherever you are. personally i feel like i rarely see pgs before upgrades anymore and i play predominantly NA servers. The ones that do usually get chewed out once we start getting destroyed. Granted I try to stick to the captains server where bad comms are pretty much not allowed, but others, you get a mix of everything.
  • meatmachinemeatmachine South England Join Date: 2013-01-06 Member: 177858Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    I avoid playing on American servers. Loud, loud commanders with no idea how to play the game. PGs on every tech point. No meds ever. PGs on every tech point.

    Russians are just... Weird, yeah. I remember comming for the russians on russia#1 or something once, it was the weirdest game ever. I mean, except for the commander who barely spoke 6 words in russian, it was just odd. Marines run around like confused guinea pigs for 10 minutes, and then successfully turtling for 30 mins with only data+crossroads. I do love playing with the russians though :)

    I think it's more of a thing like someone mentioned above, in that server-based communities stagnate to a certain extent. Pub servers with regular populations develop their own meta games. YO clan had very same-y games for the last 6 months/year it was regularly populated. When I went to play on TTO servers, the game flows were quite different.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited July 2015
    I avoid playing on American servers. Loud, loud commanders with no idea how to play the game. PGs on every tech point. No meds ever. PGs on every tech point.

    Russians are just... Weird, yeah. I remember comming for the russians on russia#1 or something once, it was the weirdest game ever. I mean, except for the commander who barely spoke 6 words in russian, it was just odd. Marines run around like confused guinea pigs for 10 minutes, and then successfully turtling for 30 mins with only data+crossroads. I do love playing with the russians though :)

    I think it's more of a thing like someone mentioned above, in that server-based communities stagnate to a certain extent. Pub servers with regular populations develop their own meta games. YO clan had very same-y games for the last 6 months/year it was regularly populated. When I went to play on TTO servers, the game flows were quite different.
    There is more of that nationalism I was asking for. I know the kind of american servers you speak of. I avoid them too.
  • MartigenMartigen Australia Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2714Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Reinforced - Onos
    Great topic :)

    My experience -- and note, this is strictly pub play:

    * Koreans -- Of all the worldwide servers I've played on, the Koreans exhibit the most teamwork. If you're a comm, and you ask marines to go somewhere, they all do it. No people randomly running off doing their own thing, which is most US/EU games, these guys actually listen and follow your orders. It's like a commander's wet dream. On top of this, they all look out for eachother, lots of welding etc.

    * French -- haven't played on an all-french server but played a number of times with french comms on EU servers. This is just my experience of a handful of comms, but they all seemed to be risk-averse, thinking it better to hold onto current ground at all costs and rarely risking one tech point to take another.

    * US/AU -- mostly we play the same, I think, though there seem to be more egos on the field on American servers.

    Anecdotally, clan play:

    * I've not done NS2 competitively, but back in NS1 days one thing I definitely noticed in the competitive scene vis-a-vis aussies and yanks is that aussies tended to take a lot more risks and think outside the box, like a flat-out relocation outside a hive in a tournament game.
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