What happened to all the modders?
_Grendel_
Join Date: 2015-05-07 Member: 204238Members
Join Date: 2015-05-07 Member: 204238Members
I've been reading over a lot of older post and there used to be a very strong modding community making some pretty awesome content. Lately it seems like the modding scene as dried up quite a bit. While there are still some mappers creating some pretty cool looking maps, most of the modders (especially the asset modders - skins/new weapon models) have vanished into thin air. Just searching for "new weapons" brings up a huge amount of ideas and half done models. I'm just wondering if there is much of a modding community left. I'd also love to know if any of the weapon models were finished. I've gone over workshop a dozen times looking for some sweet new weapons (or at least new weapon models). Found a few cool ones (one is in combat). Sadly most of the posts talking about new weapon models no longer have any of their pics 
Comments
Also some modders now work CDT, like @McGlaspie.
- Player numbers
- Server map rotations mainly focus on official maps
People only want to play highly tested and balance maps (which is fair enough), so custom maps hardly get played. In saying that, it's a double edged sword because you need players to identify changes in your map, but people only want to play the highly tested/balanced maps.
If only we had the custom map community like we had back in the NS1 days.
1. What's the point in modding for a scene this size which shows no sign of recovery: http://steamcharts.com/app/4920
2. The antiquated workshop system is an incredibly frustrating process to use.
3. The modding tools themselves aren't great (the cinematic editor doesn't even work)
I'll forever stand by the fact that every map is automatically balanced for a 2 round match. Too bad that it's not a compelling argument and doesn't make people prefer variety and flavor.
I fucking hate Dunkin' Donuts... But it is... consistent... I suppose
Granted, _fully_ implementing/supporting a mod system (in which I include great tools, great documentation and great version control) would have been several man-years worth of work... and with Unity/UE4 engines maturing, I guess the idea of licensing the Spark Engine (and thus having a monetary incentive to actually get tools/docs in place) kinda died - hard to make money competing against basically free stuff.
And Unity/UE4 may also have drained the market for the kind of modders that could have used Spark to make more advanced mods. After all, if you did not already have a relationship with NS, why would you choose to work with Spark over UE/Unity?
That said, the Spark engine actually does a lot of really cool stuff that I suspect other engines don't.
Also, the engine code (C++) is very high quality and rather enjoyable to work with .
Mind you, the first round advantage problem IS still there, it's simply greatly reduced (you'll be a bit tired by the second round).
We dont always test pure greyscales (to keep the players interested in playing the maps) but its better then nothing right?
It's true that Unity as a free engine now (or share of profit), is quite on top. Granted they started earlier, with more people etc.. but it isn't what makes it better. It's Docs and the uber import/export from free tools (like Blender etc.) natively... automatically...
Shit, this is way off-topic.
so first (on topic)
@Kalopsia : run new updates and you will get back onto the SCC maptesting sessions
And yeah ask @Mephilles as well, TAW is running comp or 7v7 maptests each week.
So if you have highly alien-favored maps, it's balanced because you play both sides ? The interesting part of balance is that you can have similar to equal chances to win both rounds. Otherwise it's just dull.
Veil is still kind of alien-favored and requires from marines some heavy stuff from the get go and the snowball effect is real. But I remember on an old version of Caged that we played during season 5, we all knew that it was favoring alien turtling and it was super hard to push without being constantly worried by the serious and deadly threat of a counterpush to which we wouldn't be able to do shit about.
So yeah, you play both rounds, so it's balanced, even if one side is heavily favored ? No that's not balanced, that's dull and boring. Especially if everyone already knows the result and expects a draw every match played on this particular map.
On caged the issue was that you were as marines able to get a fair number of RTs up, but so did the aliens and pushing them effectively was hard because of the map's size. You were failing a push on a harvester, you'd have to run for a long time to get another shot at it. PLus rotations were kind of funky back then. Now it's much better.
For me, balanced maps for both sides make up from more interesting gameplay and games overall.
What you are saying sounds boring to me, honestly. Fighting map balance shouldn't be a thing. Fighting a slight imbalance towards one of the sides can make things interesting. At the time, caged wasn't interesting. It is more now, though still flawed.
I'm working on a few small things in Unity and it's always interesting to have some insight on where and how various other engines differ.
I don't actually think this is an issue at all, the problem is there is not enough content in the form of models, sound packs, etc, new "mods" consistency is an easy fix for any server operator, or anyone willing to test there mods.
And then the problem stems from having tools which no longer work with current versions of latest software, or tools which don't have current guides or guides that work very well with latest versions of NS2, that and importing your own models with rigging/bones is a piece of shit.
Need, video/text guide on updated
Model importing from 3ds/maya/blender etc, both dynamic and static
static props etc^
Sound importing/extracting (i'm working on it kindof, i'll probably get bored of it in the next 2 days)
how to import or create new textures
The rest of the stuff like using .lua to create new mods, can be added later(there are guides out there, but they require many hack and fuck around fixes)
I mean now i know how to import models, textures, sounds etc but i cannot create new models/groups.
i cannot create the .lua files needed for those models, like for instance i was converting NS1 to NS2, i thought it'd be pretty simple but i could not for the life of me get say a resource extractor to function properly or properly animate even though i had converted to a spark enabled format, like i had 2 phase-gates from NS1, one static and one dynamic, imported into NS2 it just acted like a prop, rather annoying, didn't give me any popups to use the different model, and it was working in 3ds etc. The other issues are converting from NS1 and the model source files not containing all the needed data.
From my own perspective, I must say Unity is incredibly easy to use, and certainly the clincher is the easy asset importation, which is one of the things that really stunted the modelling options.
I loved my time modding NS2, but having way too much fun learning to make games from scratch
There are also the countless mod related bugs and annoyances that realllly kill enthusiasm.
Nothing impossible with it technically - you just need to have the time, money and people.
What would make some things much easier IMO would have been a more expanded set of 'core' libs in lua, which were more carefully documented when changes were made. This all relates to lua mods, models and other modifications are a completely different ballgame.
If you are new to modding and development, make small mods, mods that don't take much more than 10 lines of code. Make many of them, expand each time.
Trying to turn a multi-player game into a single-player game is a massive undertaking, way beyond the scope of a beginning modder.
GorgeCraft, which on the face of it is a relatively simple single-player mod took around 3 years to make, and i made many small mods before that:
Gorge Farting Bile Bomb
Fire-Breathing Lerks
are two I can think of on the spot. The code in NS2 is typed using LongName schemes which means the functions and the variables do a really good job of telling you what is happening in the code.
Don't become dis-interested in modding as a beginner because you can't make the next half-life game in a week, instead set your goals and targets much smaller and progress as you go.
If you have a lot of programming experience already, the code is very simple to understand, so I am assuming you don't have too much coding experience.
Learn to manage your expectations first, then you'll be amazed at how quickly you pick things up. Everthing is always a struggle when you start it.
Keep going and don't give up!!
Main problem with custom maps though is the learning curve. When someone plays a map for the first time, they suck. When a significant chunk of the players are first-timers, the match sucks, much like playing with a bunch of rookies. Custom maps aren't played often enough for many players to get over that initial learning curve and actually play the map decently, so every match played on them in pubs pretty much always sucks because a good chunk of the players don't know what they are doing. Even if you personally put in the effort to learn all the custom maps inside and out, that doesn't mean anyone else will, so the games played on those maps will still suck, so why put in all that effort? Why bother even playing on the maps if you know the games are going to suck because everyone else doesn't play them either?
After Overpass and Cobblestone were redesigned to fit competitive needs (interesting, a fair number of strategies possible, "fairness", etc), Train got under a huge redesign and is now being played in tournaments and leagues. Wether you like it or not, you have to play it, and I wouldn't be surprised if the map doesn't get fixes soon enough. Having a pretty important and public competitive scene, pubbers now play Train much more often in Match Making.
Other maps (the ones that come out with the Operations (like Breakout, Vanguard)) are fit to a 5v5 comp-like format but supposedly flawed and not interesting enough to be played on a pro level. However, the trend/the discovery/the changes to maps are closely linked to the comp scene. And there is a reason why maps are played by comp players, it's because they're good and balanced and make playing the game challeging and fun whatever side you're on.
NS2 is a different game, yeah we all acknoledged that, but if the NS2 competitive scene was more important and known to every ns2 player out there, maybe changes could have been brought by them. New maps, new trends, new ways of playing the game (you learn a lot from watching 'pros' playing, and you also learn to like new maps that the 'pros' play, psychologic reasonning). Hell, that's how I learned to like Jambi in the first place.
I don't know what the CDT has in store. But I do hope there is something in the likes of promoting league com-play, comp style format (for pubs = something like a ensl gather but ingame) and casual play (more than 6v6, possibly 8v8). Dropping new maps into the game like that, and making a clear cut between maps being played in comp and maps being played in pubs isn't the way to go.
I don't even think people know nexus and mineral were played in the ensl season 6, and I don't even know if people do know about ENSL or comp for that matter.
So yeah @sotanaht, high learning curve onto new custom maps, but because there is no easing into it. I remember the first time I played official maps I got lost in Tram and SUmmit, hated Refinery from the get go (Lava Falls) and learnt to hate DOcking and Generators spawn because Stability and Maintenance naturals are completely retarded.
*EDIT
If the CDT doesn't have the time to write one, maybe the guys over at FLG could help (assuming combat is similar enough to ns2). They seem to be able to get stuff into the game easily: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbjKqkKOIfM