Gen/Fusion spawn for Aliens is still terrible, just like real Docking! Supply Yard is a massively Marine favored room, and if Aliens spawn in Storage, they naturally get Fusion. If Aliens spawn in Fusion, they don't have a natural expansion. This means getting cut on Supply Yard/Energy Reserves is death.
The reason for this is that once Energy is cut, it is much easier for them to block Storage from a Fusion start than it is for them to block Fusion from a Storage spawn. This is simply since spawning in Storage gives much more sway in the map.
I have another stream recording being done, but we are still playing it.
Firstly i apologize for the vent issue in mine entrance, in test bile couldnt get past the fence but i suppose with networking and lag it seems to not prevent the bile. This update fixes some of the issues with the map that have been raised.
thankyou for the feedback i have received vent aside i never expected marines to be causing issues for aliens. Hopefully that has been addressed with this patch. Also to newer players please remember to use the ceiling etc when trying to get from a to b as an alien and not just run on the floor
. fixed hole in gully pass (near the south door)
. Moved mine entrance res node
. bile prevention method in mine entrance.
. moved system power node
. fixed drifter and mac issues with building tech points
. cysting through rockdown to pipe run should now work
. more lighting improvements
. added clutter to both east access and auxiliary flux corridors
. weird geometry obscuring commander view in storage fixed
. should have more areas to place structures in storage.
. finished vent from rockdown to wooza's stand
next patch i will look into the issue with energy reserve being to overpowered for marines if starting in fusion
would anyone like to see auxiliary node as an alien starting hive?
a vent from fusion vent straight into energy reserves? would this help remedy the issue of energy reserves being to easy to hold for marines or is it a case of aliens being outgunned?
ventilation. Would people like to see it made larger or a bit more roomy inside?
ceiling in system, should i open up the system ceilings and remove the meshing?
when in doubt add more vents. The balancing tool of any ns2 mapper is vents and clutter.
. vent in fusion has another entrance from energy reserve to prevent easy marine lockdown.
. ceiling in system opened up abit for alien access.
. changes to supply yard to hopefully make it abit more kind to aliens
. ready room changes
. additional lighting work
. opened up the hole in supply yard.
. added more clutter to east access and gully pass
. fixed hole in east access geometry
. fixed issue with drifters and macs building mine entrance tech point.
This was the last stream of version 3. Much trolling. You can see me being an Alien commander starting on Fusion and wanting to scream. Then another durp game happens.
Anyways, I will stream another game of it possibly tomorrow. I have to work and then raid in WILDSTUR, but there is a three hour window where I will attempt to get another game going.
. auxiliary node has been extended (more room behind tech point)
. overall ai pathing improved
. vent added in east access (above window)
. vent added in pipe run
. res node moved in rockdown to a less vulnerable place
One problem I just found in play. The east access rt does not have enough space behind it to allow and onos to fully circle around it. Auxiliary felt too small to me.
Also, we got an onos stuck in the big hole in courtyard. We used clogs to get him out. It was funny although irrelevant to balance.
Many decently skilled marines claimed there were too short line of sites. Aliens won by a landslide that game.
The map looks dirty and it is fantastic.
Balance the map a bit, some further polish, and I really think this could be an official map. It has a proven layout for the most part. It looks good and plays well.
im not sure on the balance side, i have seen more marine wins than alien on the map although i have only witnessed 5 games fully played 3 marine 2 alien wins and caught the end of a further 2 marine wins.
auxiliary will receive more changes but its size isnt really a major issue since it functions well enough.
i will look into east access rt, always nice to allow onos circling.
The locked door in the upper right corner of Lockdown confused me a couple of times. In general I would like it to be obvious which doors that can't be used. Perhaps you could make that corner darker or add a red light on it like Loki did on Kodiak.
. Fixed collision and stuck issue entrance to rockdown from woozas stand
. added coloured lighting to the doors of rockdown
. improvements to east access
. Fixed collision and stuck issue entrance to rockdown from woozas stand
. added coloured lighting to the doors of rockdown
. improvements to east access
Can I squeeze my fat onos buttocks behind the RT now?
. fixed a hole issue in storage vent that could on occasion cause the odd gorge to fall to his death.
. added some props around mine entrance powernode to help with skulking
While it is a neat idea, many problems exist with the balance of this map. Keep in mind that all and any scenarios that I bring up in this post are in a hypothetical world where both the alien team and the marine team are of completely equal skill level.
First of all, the southern tech points are entirely too marine-sided.
While I realize that the design of the map is not intended for the aliens to expand south, there are situations where you will be entirely forced to do so. If you start at Auxiliary Node, you are forced to expand as quickly as possible. The tech point is not designed in such a way that aliens can easily hold it, forcing them to expand north (since expanding to Mine Entrance would be futile). However, as is an issue in ns2_docking, marine pressure purely dominates the north side of the map, easily denying all and any expansion.
Storage has another issue with arcs. Except instead of it being from the north side, this is from the south side. Which of course is much easier for marines to hold/reinforce/traveltimes/gg
thanks for feedback, i will look into the issues but having every tech point unable to be arced outside of the room is unlikely due to the original docking issues
I believe this could be a very fun map, similar in playstyle to Veil (aside from the double node room) if it was tweaked to be a bit easier for aliens to expand up north (or just harder for marines to deny)
i thought of closing off access from energy reserves to supply yard completely also turning gully pass and mine entrance 180deg so that the tech point would be in the bottom right instead of top left
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Ok i also had also a short run through this maps and the main issues which came up (beside as gibs already pointed out that the western tech-points are ways too alien unfriendly ):
-The Alien entry in the rr didn't worked for us.
- This map suffers still from the main issue of docking that (even so the run time is a bit longer) it's for marines ways to easy to harass the alien expansion over energy reserves.
A good protected pg there can mean a instant win for marines. Because arcing the two near techpoints is very easy and aliens are can't cyst towards.
Ofc a easy fix for this would be making mine the only marine start point
. Swapped mine entrance and gully pass around (tech point now in bottom left as opposed to top right.
. Sealed off energy reserves to supply yard (vent is still usable)
. vent from central to mine entrance now goes to gully
I guess you have a lot of work ahead. I don't want to write a wall of text so i'm gonna be brief.
I did not play the map on public, just wandering here and there for tactical analysis.
I did play the original map (young Docking, and Rockdown).
Facts:
Line Of Sight:
Maannn! these are huge.
You may want to address that issue.
I did test with a GL. So if there was a 'collision' the nade would bounce left, right etc.. I was able to shoot really far away. To an extend i couldn't see the explosion (maximum distance for entities)
Timings
Not bad but Energy Reserves is a little short.
ARCing
That may be a huge issue.
I think that even competitive team would try sometimes. Especially to defuse from a distance a strong fortification in Energy Reserves. 1 Arc cost 10(RF) +5(Up) +10(Arc) =25.
-Energy reserve allow to ARC 3 RTs and a Hive
-Pipe Run is also a strong position. Helped buy the LOS to the hive (covering ARC) you can reach 2 RTs and a Hive without many efforts.
-East Access is a good place to ARC System (big LOS too)
Technicalities / Bugs or ToDo things:
Balance:
Supply yard is a Lerk fun park. The catwalk in there would be an issue for commander. The marine will try to protect himself from spikes under the catwalk. A commander will obviously have trouble dealing with this.
This vent is a gorge bile bomb spot. With the help of clogs a gorge can ruin this spot using bile bomb.
Ability to evolve gorge on the scaffolding above the PN
You can hide in the upper structures a little too easy in the whole area. not only this screenshot.
A hive fully grown (100% mature) should allow to drop the corresponding harvester.
IMO a Lerk will definitively use this to an extend it could be considered OP.
Bugs or missed things:
I'm stuck. I thought i could pass through.
Back on the corner, if i strafe on the right i end up wiggling.
You should take care about this : a skulk is able to walk on the air ceiling.
Perching yourself:
Use collision to solve
There may be an issue with 'Pathing' in energy Reserves : Its on the left and right of the power node. A whip did not find its way and could not move anywhere. I did put it on the corner along the yellow line.
Cosmetics
Rail
Maybe you should update the reflection probes
Minimap hole
Props alignment ?
Also these spots are really interesting spots for alien but there always a light in there while it sound illogical.
Comments
Gen/Fusion spawn for Aliens is still terrible, just like real Docking! Supply Yard is a massively Marine favored room, and if Aliens spawn in Storage, they naturally get Fusion. If Aliens spawn in Fusion, they don't have a natural expansion. This means getting cut on Supply Yard/Energy Reserves is death.
The reason for this is that once Energy is cut, it is much easier for them to block Storage from a Fusion start than it is for them to block Fusion from a Storage spawn. This is simply since spawning in Storage gives much more sway in the map.
I have another stream recording being done, but we are still playing it.
Firstly i apologize for the vent issue in mine entrance, in test bile couldnt get past the fence but i suppose with networking and lag it seems to not prevent the bile. This update fixes some of the issues with the map that have been raised.
thankyou for the feedback i have received vent aside i never expected marines to be causing issues for aliens. Hopefully that has been addressed with this patch. Also to newer players please remember to use the ceiling etc when trying to get from a to b as an alien and not just run on the floor
. fixed hole in gully pass (near the south door)
. Moved mine entrance res node
. bile prevention method in mine entrance.
. moved system power node
. fixed drifter and mac issues with building tech points
. cysting through rockdown to pipe run should now work
. more lighting improvements
. added clutter to both east access and auxiliary flux corridors
. weird geometry obscuring commander view in storage fixed
. should have more areas to place structures in storage.
. finished vent from rockdown to wooza's stand
next patch i will look into the issue with energy reserve being to overpowered for marines if starting in fusion
would anyone like to see auxiliary node as an alien starting hive?
a vent from fusion vent straight into energy reserves? would this help remedy the issue of energy reserves being to easy to hold for marines or is it a case of aliens being outgunned?
ventilation. Would people like to see it made larger or a bit more roomy inside?
ceiling in system, should i open up the system ceilings and remove the meshing?
when in doubt add more vents. The balancing tool of any ns2 mapper is vents and clutter.
. vent in fusion has another entrance from energy reserve to prevent easy marine lockdown.
. ceiling in system opened up abit for alien access.
. changes to supply yard to hopefully make it abit more kind to aliens
. ready room changes
. additional lighting work
small patch
. opened up the hole in supply yard.
. added more clutter to east access and gully pass
. fixed hole in east access geometry
. fixed issue with drifters and macs building mine entrance tech point.
http://www.twitch.tv/cyber_kun/b/577921644
This was the last stream of version 3. Much trolling. You can see me being an Alien commander starting on Fusion and wanting to scream. Then another durp game happens.
Anyways, I will stream another game of it possibly tomorrow. I have to work and then raid in WILDSTUR, but there is a three hour window where I will attempt to get another game going.
. auxiliary node is now a possible alien start location
. fixed occlusion issue in system.
. supply yard should be easier for aliens to assault
. auxiliary node corridor has more areas for skulks to hide.
. Overview lapping in system fixed.
. auxiliary node has been extended (more room behind tech point)
. overall ai pathing improved
. vent added in east access (above window)
. vent added in pipe run
. res node moved in rockdown to a less vulnerable place
Also, we got an onos stuck in the big hole in courtyard. We used clogs to get him out. It was funny although irrelevant to balance.
Many decently skilled marines claimed there were too short line of sites. Aliens won by a landslide that game.
The map looks dirty and it is fantastic.
Balance the map a bit, some further polish, and I really think this could be an official map. It has a proven layout for the most part. It looks good and plays well.
auxiliary will receive more changes but its size isnt really a major issue since it functions well enough.
i will look into east access rt, always nice to allow onos circling.
thanks for the feedback, it is a fun map.
The most useful thing about that is at the end of the Forgotten game when people smarter than me comment on the game. Otherwise, stomp stomp stomp.
. Fixed collision and stuck issue entrance to rockdown from woozas stand
. added coloured lighting to the doors of rockdown
. improvements to east access
Can I squeeze my fat onos buttocks behind the RT now?
. fixed a hole issue in storage vent that could on occasion cause the odd gorge to fall to his death.
. added some props around mine entrance powernode to help with skulking
First of all, the southern tech points are entirely too marine-sided.
While I realize that the design of the map is not intended for the aliens to expand south, there are situations where you will be entirely forced to do so. If you start at Auxiliary Node, you are forced to expand as quickly as possible. The tech point is not designed in such a way that aliens can easily hold it, forcing them to expand north (since expanding to Mine Entrance would be futile). However, as is an issue in ns2_docking, marine pressure purely dominates the north side of the map, easily denying all and any expansion.
Storage has another issue with arcs. Except instead of it being from the north side, this is from the south side. Which of course is much easier for marines to hold/reinforce/traveltimes/gg
That about sums it up.
Also I found an exploit.
-The Alien entry in the rr didn't worked for us.
- This map suffers still from the main issue of docking that (even so the run time is a bit longer) it's for marines ways to easy to harass the alien expansion over energy reserves.
A good protected pg there can mean a instant win for marines. Because arcing the two near techpoints is very easy and aliens are can't cyst towards.
Ofc a easy fix for this would be making mine the only marine start point
. Swapped mine entrance and gully pass around (tech point now in bottom left as opposed to top right.
. Sealed off energy reserves to supply yard (vent is still usable)
. vent from central to mine entrance now goes to gully
I did not play the map on public, just wandering here and there for tactical analysis.
I did play the original map (young Docking, and Rockdown).
Facts:
Line Of Sight:
You may want to address that issue.
I did test with a GL. So if there was a 'collision' the nade would bounce left, right etc.. I was able to shoot really far away. To an extend i couldn't see the explosion (maximum distance for entities)
Timings
Not bad but Energy Reserves is a little short.
ARCing
I think that even competitive team would try sometimes. Especially to defuse from a distance a strong fortification in Energy Reserves. 1 Arc cost 10(RF) +5(Up) +10(Arc) =25.
-Energy reserve allow to ARC 3 RTs and a Hive
-Pipe Run is also a strong position. Helped buy the LOS to the hive (covering ARC) you can reach 2 RTs and a Hive without many efforts.
-East Access is a good place to ARC System (big LOS too)
Technicalities / Bugs or ToDo things:
Supply yard is a Lerk fun park. The catwalk in there would be an issue for commander. The marine will try to protect himself from spikes under the catwalk. A commander will obviously have trouble dealing with this.
This vent is a gorge bile bomb spot. With the help of clogs a gorge can ruin this spot using bile bomb.
Ability to evolve gorge on the scaffolding above the PN
You can hide in the upper structures a little too easy in the whole area. not only this screenshot.
A hive fully grown (100% mature) should allow to drop the corresponding harvester.
IMO a Lerk will definitively use this to an extend it could be considered OP.
Bugs or missed things:
Back on the corner, if i strafe on the right i end up wiggling.
You should take care about this : a skulk is able to walk on the air ceiling.
Perching yourself:
Use collision to solve
There may be an issue with 'Pathing' in energy Reserves : Its on the left and right of the power node. A whip did not find its way and could not move anywhere. I did put it on the corner along the yellow line.
Cosmetics
Maybe you should update the reflection probes
Minimap hole
Props alignment ?
Also these spots are really interesting spots for alien but there always a light in there while it sound illogical.
Empty pipe full of nothing is empty
Hole
Things i hate
You may hate me now.
Edit : Second post incoming...
For a start.