New jet pack sucks but has potential...Much better way....
DCMAKER
Join Date: 2014-09-02 Member: 198219Members
Join Date: 2014-09-02 Member: 198219Members
UPDATE: I just checked and you do do the jump when you hold but its a solid diagonal line so when you hold its basically a fast lift off instead of a slow one now, which isn't bad. I guess my point of going into the ceiling would be moot if you offered option 3 plus a and b. Though 1 and 2 would still work but it just adds added control/complexity to the jet pack....whether that is good or bad is upto debate. I truly believe adding #3,a,b would add some good game play. I do think the slower regen is a disaster...lower cap..whatever. Both just nerf it too much.
Alright i like the new jump thing but you jump no matter if its a tap or a hold (from my experience i haven't played a lot since the 268 build) which is dumb because in so many section you just go into some crack in the ceiling -_- This would be a much better method that has always bugged me because i think its obvious and balanced. If you think of the lerk and how it moves and how retarded the jet pack is its really sad. The lerk also has no stamina limits but i understand these are a little incomparable. These suggestions add depth and more realism to how a jet pack would work in real life.
1)if you hold the jet pack down it functions like the normal way
2) if you tap it does the jump
2a)you can always rehold the jet pack button right after the tap to continue jet packing into the jump
As far as i could tell this isn't in the game but maybe i am mistaken
3) if you hold shift you do 1 of 2 things (which i think would make the jet pack much more realistic and usable)
3a) if your in mid air and hold shift(with/without space whatever binding makes sense), you will start to jet pack in a straight line instead of going up, which would allow you to go slightly faster and have better control/distance (or goes same speed but uses slightly less juice).
3b)if you are on the ground and start to sprint then you press and hold space in mid sprint you will now go into a jet pack boosted sprint that is slightly faster then flying because you obviously are only using power to push yourself forward or it uses less juice and does the same speed.
So lets say speed of jet pack going he standard diagonal upward angle is 1. Going in air in a straight line would be 1.1 and sprinting on ground would be 1.2 in speed.
or
So lets say power usage of jet pack going the standard diagonal upward angle is 1. Going in air in a straight line would be .9 and sprinting on ground would be .8 in power usage.
I think this adds a great deal more control and balance to the game, because the jet pack has always kinda sucked in functionality. The dynamics of this would really add a lot in my eyes and they simply make sense.
Also on a side note the decrease in jetpack power (capacity) and slower regen is really stupid...seriously??? Why? it wasn't even that good to begin with. The reduced capacity i can understand in some points but making slower regen is a complete double slap in the face and over kill...or over nerfing. The jet pack isn't even worth using anymore with how it has been butchered. If you added these functionalitys (sp? is that even a word -_-) to the jet pack it would really add a lot to game play overall. I can understand the reduced capacity but the reduced regen time is really nerfing the jetpack to an absurd level. If you added these suggestions i would get the reduced capacity but the slower regen is simply dumb.
Alright i like the new jump thing but you jump no matter if its a tap or a hold (from my experience i haven't played a lot since the 268 build) which is dumb because in so many section you just go into some crack in the ceiling -_- This would be a much better method that has always bugged me because i think its obvious and balanced. If you think of the lerk and how it moves and how retarded the jet pack is its really sad. The lerk also has no stamina limits but i understand these are a little incomparable. These suggestions add depth and more realism to how a jet pack would work in real life.
1)if you hold the jet pack down it functions like the normal way
2) if you tap it does the jump
2a)you can always rehold the jet pack button right after the tap to continue jet packing into the jump
As far as i could tell this isn't in the game but maybe i am mistaken
3) if you hold shift you do 1 of 2 things (which i think would make the jet pack much more realistic and usable)
3a) if your in mid air and hold shift(with/without space whatever binding makes sense), you will start to jet pack in a straight line instead of going up, which would allow you to go slightly faster and have better control/distance (or goes same speed but uses slightly less juice).
3b)if you are on the ground and start to sprint then you press and hold space in mid sprint you will now go into a jet pack boosted sprint that is slightly faster then flying because you obviously are only using power to push yourself forward or it uses less juice and does the same speed.
So lets say speed of jet pack going he standard diagonal upward angle is 1. Going in air in a straight line would be 1.1 and sprinting on ground would be 1.2 in speed.
or
So lets say power usage of jet pack going the standard diagonal upward angle is 1. Going in air in a straight line would be .9 and sprinting on ground would be .8 in power usage.
I think this adds a great deal more control and balance to the game, because the jet pack has always kinda sucked in functionality. The dynamics of this would really add a lot in my eyes and they simply make sense.
Also on a side note the decrease in jetpack power (capacity) and slower regen is really stupid...seriously??? Why? it wasn't even that good to begin with. The reduced capacity i can understand in some points but making slower regen is a complete double slap in the face and over kill...or over nerfing. The jet pack isn't even worth using anymore with how it has been butchered. If you added these functionalitys (sp? is that even a word -_-) to the jet pack it would really add a lot to game play overall. I can understand the reduced capacity but the reduced regen time is really nerfing the jetpack to an absurd level. If you added these suggestions i would get the reduced capacity but the slower regen is simply dumb.
Comments
Even if you can do the boost run in any direction it can't get past inertia and you can easily set it in a way that has a 1 set cool down or something. Again this would not be ESF movement...that isn't possible with a jet pack. -_- physics here...this isn't DBZ or mechmod.
Not gonna lie though I have slammed myself into the ceilings/stuck in corners many times already...
Louder!
Im not even that good, and I can still remember times I have jetted past onos/skulks/lerks to chase a fade to his hive...have time to finish him off, AND still have enough energy to dodge/jet my way back to my allies.
And as for jetpacks not being a problem with hive killing... Cargo, cave, generator...just to name a few.
What are you talking about? The jet jump is nice but their are plenty of times i want to go straight up and not forward and up....There are plenty of vents directly above you. Faceoff is a good example. Hence why if you hold it down you go straight up but if you tap it you jet jump. Why would you want to have less control? I rather have more options. I can handle tapping space for jump and holding for non jump jet pack. Can you not handle that much control -_-
You also clearly don't comprehend what i am talking about with the jetpack run. There is no reason why the jet pack cant boost your running speed.
hardly...seriously the jet pack isn't that good even in the handful of decent players. It isn't hard to kill a jet packer. You are totally wishy washy on how you apply your "logic" between lerks and jet packs. Allowing you to select between a jump or normal flight is not changing things where it would be OP or making it easier for newbs...if anything it makes it harder. What are you smoking.
Giving the ability to jet pack sprint doesn't great affect gameplay. all you would be adding is being able to sprint quickly forward in almost a complete linear direction. Do you think you would be able to dart? I dont know why this is so hard for you to understand because you clearly don't get what i am describing. you aren't even trying. do you want me to draw it for you or would that not even help.
here i drew a picture for you -_-
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fh6fdn0zoje6g8h/NS 2 jetpack run movement.png
How would this be OP?
Next I'd like to point out that though this is the internet, it is nice to read serious arguments written in a serious fashion. Spelling doesn't need to be impeccable, but capitalization is nice and punctuation is a very good idea.
Lastly, insulting the intelligence of some of the more active members of the community and people who have played NS2 for a long time isn't the best route to getting yourself or your suggestions taken more seriously.
Jetpacks as the are now are a pretty decent blend of pros and cons. They provide a significant increase in mobility for short bursts at the cost of 65 tres (not counting the AA), and only 15 pres. That's less than a shotgun, GL, or flamer.
Before 268, I could fly around in a large room for a lot longer than I can with 268 (I don't want to give an exact number but let's say 30 seconds airtime) by conserving energy and sorta hovering around. 30 seconds is a long time in a fight. It's plenty of time for me to find a semi safe place to land and recharge the pack for a few seconds, before continuing on my flight of death and destruction. However easy you think it is to kill jetpackers, I don't think the majority of people agree with you.
With the changes in 268, the reduced fuel and recharge makes the marine team have to use their jetpacks more sparingly. If they're traveling to a fight, they need to conserve fuel to have it for the fight. They also can't just fly around for ages in a large room before having to land. This is super useful for aliens, who have considerably more opportunity to catch the jetpacker on the ground where he is most vulnerable.
On the other hand, this new jetpack is much faster from the get go. So it's a lot harder for aliens to get the guy in air, or even just as they take off.
So no, it's not stupid.
With regards to your suggestion for a horizontal thrust option for the jetpack. It could be interesting. For balance sake it would need to be strictly for traveling purposes, no weapons fire allowed while thrusting horizontally on the ground. Imagine a group of marines chasing down an Onos even faster than they can now while having guns blazing. Or running away from an onos even faster than they can now, while guns are blazing. I see this being sorta like Charge, or the Exosuit's thrusters.
Your control scheme is a little clunky though. It's not very intuitive to have multiple key presses to do a single action. It would need some work.
EDIT: Also, they're not getting your suggestion because it was mired in a slew of attacks on the current system that many of us actually don't think is too bad.
Let me know when "Veteran" forum members follow this first.
pardon my control scheme that i pulled out of my ass in 2 seconds.
Also as i stated you can do this for just forward and backwards or simply just for forward movement.
you know what nm...it isn't even worth re explaining this for the 10th time. I have drawn it out, typed it in several different ways and yet you can't comprehend the concept of starting off in a sprint then pressing space (jump) to start a jet boosted sprint or how about tab shift + hold shift to activate. Instead of holding sprint for stand sprint you tap sprint then hold to activate it. Does that work? If i recall that was a convenient bind in ESF for something similar but i haven't played that in years.
here i'll bullet point it
1) hold shift (sprint) for standard sprint
2) tap shift -> hold shift to activate jet pack boosted sprint.
Is that really complicated for players to master?
So now in addition to marines who can already evade melee units quite well with a jetpack, you want to add the following:
the ability to cover large distances across the map even more quickly (thereby further improving marine map control)
the ability to chase down fleeing lifeforms even more easily
a means to drastically increase the distance between the marine and an alien (mostly melee, remember) very rapidly.
This would be an unmitigated disaster for aliens, unless you propose a series of additional marine nerf, too.
For your information, I understood what you were saying, but thank you for the wonderful drawing which cheered me up after a busy day at work.
I may be being a little harsh on you, but try to look at this the other way around. You've appeared here very recently making very bold statements about how lots of things are awful and need to be changed. The changes you've proposed have been ill-conceived, and as far as I can see unwarranted. Your tone has been trying to suggest you're a seasoned pro who fully understands the game, but absolutely no content you've written supports this. You've disagreed with competitive players, including one who was in the last world cup competition final and whose team recently won the NSL season 4 premiere division (not me, I'll add), on matters about which they absolutely definitely know inside out.
Look, I'm not against new kids on the block. I want to see this community flourish, and I want the game development to continue. However, I reserve the right not to take seriously someone who's probably only just out of green status forcibly telling the community how things are wrong and should be changed, when those suggestions make no logical sense and do not address any of the real problems that still exist in the game.
If I went and registered on let's say the LOL forums (I've seen lol played but not played it myself), and proceeded to tell them how the design of their game is wrong and how it should be improved, and then argued angrily with lol enthusiasts when they told me my comments were ridiculous, just how well do you think that would go down?
Most people tend to take things a bit slower, post here and there, get a feel for the mood and behaviour on the forums before launching into suggesting dramatic changes!
Anyways, other members have claimed what i am suggesting is basically possible already. Also you have forgotten or didn't bother reading that this can only be done in a forward sprint if you choose. One person stated that you could set it up where you can't shoot in the jet pack boost which would actually be a good idea and realistic. Also the sprint can only have limited turning capabilities, which means that it can only be used for short burst distances in most maps...we are taling about NS2 here. How many long or slowly winding corridors are there? This would have limited impact with said limits and features but would add some good added value to game play. So your points are still moot
So to break it down barney style for you:
the ability to cover large distances across the map even more quickly (thereby further improving marine map control)
Limited turning radius makes this fairly moot. It wouldn't change map control in any huge way.
the ability to chase down fleeing lifeforms even more easily
Can't really happen as stated above plus with the added limit of can't shoot while in jet pack sprint
a means to drastically increase the distance between the marine and an alien (mostly melee, remember) very rapidly.
moot again because it can be done for forward only. You can't sprint strafe or sprint backwards can you?
So again your points are moot.
Please please please put some bars on that yellow (and ironically surprised looking) face!
(I bet I get a disagree for this post).
Edit: I got an even better idea. For all 30 or so Awesome you got, you can ban someone for an hour. That would make a fun forum game :P
1. Jet pack needs more controls (you want to be able to use button combinations to effect various movements eg. sprint forward no altitude gain.
2. Slow fuel regen is pants
3. change fuel consumption rate depending to JP action
So on with the reply (just an FYI: I play public games only, and do not play Competitive or PUGs - I have clocked about 700 hrs and purchased the game on day 1, my current Hive skill is about 800 cos I am not a great player).
1. The JP actually has all those controls just using the jump key alone (if you learn how to control it). if you want to go forward quickly, you need to press your forward key, and space. Hold forward, and let go of space til you drop a bit (so you don't hit the ceiling) you maintain momentum, tap the space key BEFORE you hit the ground (hitting the ground kills momentum). Rinse and repeat til you run out of fuel. You can cover vast areas of the map this way. The limit is the ceiling height. I believe this is a deliberate design. If you are able to do lateral movement as you suggest, it would make the marines with jetpacks very very powerful. You are able to cover ground too quickly and make chasing down alien lifeforms way too easy, and could get to all your RTs and PGs very quickly to nullify alien mobility. Think of it this way, a JP/SG (15+20 res) can chase down a fleeing Onos no trouble as is, with your proposed changes, they can chase and come back after killing the onos. Jetpacks are balanced around a risk / reward... Use all your fuel to chase and you might not make it back.
2. The current JP is sacrificing fuel for better control. It is a good thing, as the old jp allowed marines to endlessly kite in certain hive rooms (Cave on refinery, Atrium on Summit, Cargo on Veil). So slow fuel regen is a fair thing.
3. has merit IF we add in all the controls you propose (but I don't think it is a good idea to add in the controls see 1. above).
Thanks.
sprint jet pack though acts very differently then the boost-fall-boost-fall method. It would either be faster with same fuel or same speed with less fuel or whatever you choose to make it...assuming you plan on making it based off of the speed/fuel consumption of the current jet pack.
BTW i didn't notice the overall speed was increased...it appeared to me only being the lift off. If speed was increased then making less fuel capacity would make sense but it appeared the few times i was playing around with the jet pack since the update it was only take off speed was affected. So i could be mistaken but i didn't see that.
As i said though making a limit on turning radius for sprint jet pack would make the boost only viable for short stints or VERY select areas. Only map i recall with huge straight ground areas are yakoshima (is that right?) and honorguard.
Also the ones that keep complain about controls how hard is it to tap shift then hold to activate sprint? or start sprint then release and press again depending on how you wanted to make it work for balancing. If you wanted to have the requirement you have to be sprinting first then hold sprint to start sprint->release and hold sprint to activate. Though if you don't care for forcing a "build up/delay" tap shift then hold to activate. That is super simply and easy binding. ESF used that for swoop or something in an old version IIRC.
Also i think i was mistaken on point 1 and 2. I haven't had time to retry it in game. I am really used to the old jet pack so maybe i was messing it up. If you are still and press space...do you just go up? I am used to just walking and holding so i assumed you can't go straight up anymore so maybe i am mistaken. If thats the case the points of 1 and 2 are relatively moot. So if you know the answer to that please let me know. I could be mistaken and was always walking/running in some form, which trigger the jet jump.
hey i wasn't the one who resorted to childish strike throughs and claiming post counts makes me smart crap blah blah petty crap
I also backed my opinion up with substance and supported my claim....the others can't say the same.
Everyone seems more then happy to piss on an idea without giving it any time to think about it. 90% of what they have said is baseless and has nothing to do with what i recommended.