Bite bite bite, not dead :(

dePARAdePARA Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
edited August 2014 in NS2 General Discussion
I dont know if this is an real issue or only imagination.
But since 267 i miss so many bites, so many swipes.

I read a few post in in forum that other players have the same problems so there might be an hidden issue.
Example:
Marines have armor 1.
I was able to sneak behind 1 marine running straight in an long corridor whitout jumping.
What happened?
Parasite, bite, bite , bite (i turned around cause i was 100% sure he is dead, ok not dead), another bite (oops a bite in the air, but i was only 1 meter away). Im dead.

This happen so often in 267 now,cant count. I play this game a while (3,5 years), never had that before.
Its like the hitbox is 1 meter behind the physical model.

I tried it with physic multicore and without, no difference.
Has someone the same issues?


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Comments

  • AsranielAsraniel Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    Do you have multithreaded physics on? There is one known (fixed for 268) bug with that experimental option that can get the hitbox slightly out of sync with the real one.
  • MephillesMephilles Germany Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer
    if that's true that might be the cause why my shotguns don't hit anymore since 267
  • dePARAdePARA Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited August 2014
    I played one round with multithreaded physics on (noticed the descibed effect) and turned it off after mapchange with the same result.

    But a least there is an issue and im not totally mad :D
  • RicezRicez Join Date: 2013-04-13 Member: 184784Members
    One thing that I've noticed is that if you lag (network) while just running it's possible you get corrections and warping - while just running with nobody around you!

    While running behind another player I've noticed a lot more position correction and warping.
  • GhoulofGSG9GhoulofGSG9 Join Date: 2013-03-31 Member: 184566Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter, Pistachionauts
    edited August 2014
    Little tip for the future:
    If you notice any kind of those issues: enable net_stats, cheats 1 + collision damage and look how colision updates with the players movement with having a look at possible network and server issues (net_stats will show those ways better in 268 than in any build before)

    Good news is that with 268 the collision updating will improve a lot so it will be as exact as never before ;)
  • meatmachinemeatmachine South England Join Date: 2013-01-06 Member: 177858Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    It feels sometimes as though the bite cone is being predicted poorly- I've had times like @dePARA‌ has mentioned where bites I'm 100% sure I landed have done nothing, and marines with A0 survive like 5 bites, or bites have really blatently not hit a marine despite being square in the middle of the screen and less than a foot away- it's felt like I had no bite range.
    And at the same time, I've been moving at high speed past a marine, turned sideways and bit him from over a meter away- almost as if the server was taking into account my speed and then putting the bite cone way out in front of the direction I was facing without regard to whether or not I was facing the direction of travel. But what do I know ;)

    @GhoulofGSG9‌ I hope these changes will have some effect on this, it sounds like they might.
  • UncleCrunchUncleCrunch Mayonnaise land Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41365Members, Reinforced - Onos
    Glad to see I'm not crazy too. I had the same + marine side is strange At first i though it was a bad ping on some player side.


    5 bites from behind. Mr Marine A0/W0 do a 180°, booya! skulk dead. hmmm Wait a minute.


    On marine side I'm not the best shot but not the least.
    I open fire at a skulk and hear the bip sound that confirms the bullet hits (on my side at least). Then more bips... and half the clip is gone. Then more bips... and the clip is gone. ok, i draw my gun. some more bips. So many bips and no skulk died... Ok i play with nasty bastards like I am but sometimes i feel it can't be real.


    I tested my map with bots and it's the same. Some "out of alignment" stuff.



    It would be good to have a system like mobile phone (1 to 5 bars) to get a better idea of ping/cpu related issues. It can be on the score board or on a status command.

    What i mean is, you can have :
    good/bad ping
    good/bad FPS
    good/bad server tick

    It would be nice to be able to measure other things like the real delay (network + server computation lag) between players. If not fixed on the performance topic; at least we would be able to measure/compensate and play accordingly.

  • DraconisDraconis Join Date: 2003-02-18 Member: 13722Members, Reinforced - Onos
    edited August 2014
    I had noticed this issue two days ago when i turned on multi threaded physics, thought it was my connection spazing. Will try again without it.
  • SantaClawsSantaClaws Denmark Join Date: 2012-07-31 Member: 154491Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited August 2014
    On marine side I'm not the best shot but not the least.
    I open fire at a skulk and hear the bip sound that confirms the bullet hits (on my side at least). Then more bips... and half the clip is gone. Then more bips... and the clip is gone. ok, i draw my gun. some more bips. So many bips and no skulk died... Ok i play with nasty bastards like I am but sometimes i feel it can't be real.

    Hit sounds and draw damage is server side - if you hear those sounds you definetely connected. You may be conditioned to placebo or confirmation bias.

    I'm not saying there's not a hitreg issue, far from it, but I'm fairly certain that the server-side hit indicators are very accurate.
  • dePARAdePARA Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited August 2014
    Yep, the hit sound comes from the server. These are the real hits.

    @UncleCrunch
    What you described is a pack of skulks waiting for you.
    So you hit 3 or 4 skulk but from your point of view it was only one.
    And with regeneration the already chipped skulks are back in business in around 15 sec.
  • WobWob Join Date: 2005-04-08 Member: 47814Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    It's strange to me that everyone here is having alien problems. I'm having awful marine problems where LMG/Pistol will hit clearly 3-4 bullets but no damage.

    The other day I crept up on a gorge and fired a whole clip in to him only to do 310 damage with 62% accuracy. Where the other 19 bullets went I will never know but 19/50 is an unbelievably substantial number of bullets to not register.

    I once had a lerk "W" into me and the first 3 pistol shots didn't reg but the next 7 did. Literally no change in movement from him or me in movement/mouse orientation. Blood check, damage missing...

    I understand the good intentions the CDT has and that volunteering their time is very kind of them, but since b267 my gameplay experience has been hurt more than fixed.
    I alt-tab with a 50-50 chance of crashing. Previously I never crashed on alt-tab.
    I get so many more rifle-jam bugs than previously. Previously I was lucky enough never to have rifle-jam.
    The hit reg is so much worse than before.

    Alt-tabbing I can learn to not do but it's frustrating.
    Rifle-jam is annoying but I can kind of deal with it.
    Consistently poor hit reg just ruins the FPS experience and surely is the key component of the FPS side of the game. To ruin this is almost criminal.

    Like I said, I appreciate the intentions of CDT, but for me at least, the actual results of the CDT have been bad to put it simply.

  • SantaClawsSantaClaws Denmark Join Date: 2012-07-31 Member: 154491Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    @nachos‌
    I've watched your stream sometimes, and I'll confirm that it's definetely not in your head. I've had some hitreg issues myself, but on your end it seems particularly severe from my point of view.
  • zenefzenef Join Date: 2013-03-07 Member: 183762Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    You can test this by walking behind a friendly marine and colliding with thin air. It feels like the model you see is on the wrong place( ahead of the everything else). Happens often, but not always.
  • AurOn2AurOn2 COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS! Australia Join Date: 2012-01-13 Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
    I think @ironhorse put it right.
    Slippity Slope Selection 2.
    In that, Hit-reg keeps falling off the edge - and it keeps loosing it's icepick.
    Trust me, it'll be fixed next patch - broken the one after.
  • RejZoRRejZoR Slovenia Join Date: 2013-09-24 Member: 188450Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow
    Proof i'm not imagining things. And 268 build doesn't improve anything, it just made it worse. ironhorse will of course demand a fraps recording, but the issue is clearly there. not sure how a video recording will help them fix it...
  • SantaClawsSantaClaws Denmark Join Date: 2012-07-31 Member: 154491Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    RejZoR wrote: »
    Proof i'm not imagining things. And 268 build doesn't improve anything, it just made it worse. ironhorse will of course demand a fraps recording, but the issue is clearly there. not sure how a video recording will help them fix it...

    Are you joking? It's not about proof. I'm sure the CDT are aware. It's about getting a clue to where the problem is.
  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
    getting a fraps recording is NOT hard.
    For f sake people...

    last patch I took the first time 20mins and the 2nd 1hour of testing without any mods, on a local server, with netstats and rstats on. I could reproduce, record, show and report.
    Know what the hardest part of that was? Waiting for the bug to finally appear. Recording the bloody thing was a simple as 'press F10 to start vid' with fraps. (I also supplied plogs)

    Everywhere here is always complaining about hitreg, yet noone bothers to invest the time to just record a vid with netstat and report.

    Ive seen folk complain ingame and on forums complain about this issue, for far far more time investment then a video record would take.. unbelievable.
    Ive reported bugs in the past and I dont always have to supply vids. They ask for vids IF NEEDED.



    Im done with this topic.
  • RejZoRRejZoR Slovenia Join Date: 2013-09-24 Member: 188450Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow
    So, explaining what's wrong is not enough. Am i speaking Chinese by any chance?
  • inveigleinveigle Join Date: 2004-01-07 Member: 25117Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    edited August 2014
    RejZoR wrote: »
    So, explaining what's wrong is not enough. Am i speaking Chinese by any chance?

    ironhorse and the CDT know that the issue is there , pinpointing it is the issue. Videos provided as evidence will help us reproduce this. This is where you, the community, can help shape this great game. Thank you.
  • WobWob Join Date: 2005-04-08 Member: 47814Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    inveigle wrote: »
    ironhorse and the CDT know that the issue is there

    PSA might help reduce the number of complaints about this issue then.
    NeXuS wrote: »
    If there is an issue, let them know, but the constant negativity toward the CDT and others involved gets old quite fast.

    And it's not just UWE or the CDT. How many times have you seen people exploit Call of Duty? Or graphical glitches in Dota? Even after patches? AAA devs have the same issues.
    This is a game. Things happen. Bugs appear and glitches are found.

    Welcome to gaming. Get over it.

    This is silly. Of course you can be negative and critical of mistakes and poor implementation, it's one reason why developers and teams of any description work to make sure their stuff is decent quality; so they don't get negative remarks.

    Bending over when hit registration (no 1 important thing in FPS gameplay) gets ruined is ridiculous. You can't expect no outburst.

    Also people shouldn't necessarily hold their standards to other flagships in an industry. They should aim to be true to the highest standard possible regardless of what competition is offering.

    I expected the volunteers to do a worse job (in terms of actual implementation) than paid professionals. I appreciate CDT efforts, but it doesn't stop me being disappointed when they do change something important badly.
  • NeXuSNeXuS US Join Date: 2013-10-13 Member: 188681Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    edited August 2014
    To expand on what @inveigle‌ said, getting concrete and certain reproducing steps is key. Without a way to consistently reproduce a bug or glitch, patching it is near impossible. Take the reload bug for example. I don't know if it's been fixed yet or not, but for a long time, we had no way to reproduce it. It appeared mostly random. We got videos from many people showing the bug when using a JP, jumping, and just simply reloading. And because of this, we could not figure out how to fix it. I remember one PT session where we literally spent an hour and a half with 12+ people trying different ways to reproduce it with no luck. Devs need videos or repro steps to fix any problem. Always.
  • NeXuSNeXuS US Join Date: 2013-10-13 Member: 188681Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    edited August 2014
    nachos wrote: »
    inveigle wrote: »
    ironhorse and the CDT know that the issue is there

    PSA might help reduce the number of complaints about this issue then.
    NeXuS wrote: »
    If there is an issue, let them know, but the constant negativity toward the CDT and others involved gets old quite fast.

    And it's not just UWE or the CDT. How many times have you seen people exploit Call of Duty? Or graphical glitches in Dota? Even after patches? AAA devs have the same issues.
    This is a game. Things happen. Bugs appear and glitches are found.

    Welcome to gaming. Get over it.
    This is silly. Of course you can be negative and critical of mistakes and poor implementation, it's one reason why developers and teams of any description work to make sure their stuff is decent quality; so they don't get negative remarks.

    Bending over when hit registration (no 1 important thing in FPS gameplay) gets ruined is ridiculous. You can't expect no outburst.

    Also people shouldn't necessarily hold their standards to other flagships in an industry. They should aim to be true to the highest standard possible regardless of what competition is offering.

    I expected the volunteers to do a worse job (in terms of actual implementation) than paid professionals. I appreciate CDT efforts, but it doesn't stop me being disappointed when they do change something important badly.
    I expected the volunteers to do a worse job (in terms of actual implementation) than paid professionals. I appreciate CDT efforts, but it doesn't stop me being disappointed when they do change something important badly.
    Making a great game is the number one priority. I know that. My point is this is a game. One patch will fix an issue only to have another appear. It happens. Some people just don't understand that. I used other more popular games as an example because those companies have many paid professionals with many paid testers yet bugs and glitches still arise after a patch. It's part of gaming.

  • WobWob Join Date: 2005-04-08 Member: 47814Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    NeXuS wrote: »
    Making a great game is the number one priority. I know that. My point is this is a game. One patch will fix an issue only to have another appear. It happens. Some people just don't understand that. I used other more popular games as an example because those companies have many paid professionals with many paid testers yet bugs and glitches still arise after a patch. It's part of gaming.

    It's been quickly noted in the live build how hit reg is poor for multiple players at multiple levels. How this can get through playtesters is mind boggling because shooting/biting is the staple of the game. If the patch was pushed through with knowledge of hit reg issues, that's poor implementation.

    Like I said earlier, sure alt-tab is annoying, and sure rifle jam is frustrating, but simple hit reg is a serious infringement of basic gameplay which you can't just pass off as "part of gaming"
  • MendaspMendasp I touch maps in inappropriate places Valencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer
    Do these hitreg issues happen on servers with vanilla rates?
  • NeXuSNeXuS US Join Date: 2013-10-13 Member: 188681Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    edited August 2014
    I haven't playtested in about a month or so because my job requires me to be away from home but I can assure you if something as important as hit reg was noticed, they would not have released the patch. It obviously wasn't noticed by the PTs or CDT. Narfwak, our Lead PT, and others are extremely meticulous when it comes to ironing out everything before releasing a new build. I haven't noticed anything wrong with hit reg yet but that doesn't mean it's not an issue. It could be a mod or a certain server that causes it.
  • AsranielAsraniel Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    Certain network settings on the server are known to cause issues like this (thats why they are experimental and you get a warning when joining servers with changed network settings)
  • shonanshonan Join Date: 2013-01-28 Member: 182562Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    nachos wrote: »

    PSA might help reduce the number of complaints about this issue then.

    PSA: All videogames have hitreg issues, thats inevitable, no code or network/ client/ server/ connection conditions are perfect.

    I havent personally encountered any obvious hitreg issues in NS2. Cant say that for many other games.

    The fact that people claim theres hitreg issues but theres been no video proof presented makes me skeptical.
  • SantaClawsSantaClaws Denmark Join Date: 2012-07-31 Member: 154491Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited August 2014
    @shonan‌
    There is video evidence on twitch, you'd just have to sort it out cuz nobody highlighted it. But I've seen it on wobs and sykniks channel before. Strangely enough, on wobs channel it was mostly on marine side, while on sykniks it was mostly on alien side and a lot more rare compared to wobs.

    Oh and let me add. It's not strange that there is not much video evidence, for the same reason that there are hardly any streamers. The game simply doesn't have the optimisation that allows for people to maintain a high enough framerate that they can actually play the game well while streaming.
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