@Roobubba
my point exact.. I was commenting on the recent addition that it no longer works in combat. If its to strong its fine making it a lower % but making it flat out refuse to work in combat....
Many aliens have plenty speed to run back to the hive to heal. It removed more viability then it adds this... no combat regen.
* Onos pretty much always gets hit, its like impossible to miss. Feels rather pointless to even remotely consider regen on a onos for any reason.
* Gorge can use in combat regen to be more effective at bilebombing armour, weapons, bases. Belly slides, ya know. All it does. It needs no out combat regen as its own healspray suffices perfectly fine. With no regen in combat, a gorge has to either get out way faster or heal much much more in combat then before, limiting the toolbox of the gorge.
* regen as a lerk was always a risk.. You risk a shotgun in the face neardeath for a posibility to recover while dodging in combat. If it does not work in combat I see no reason why any lerk would still risk the higher death chance a lack of carapace brings.
Havent thought about other lifeforms but im sure 3 is plenty.
* Onos regen has been nerfed sure becuase of the heal cap.
* Gorges with regen is still very useful - for the reasons you listed your self, it basically saves energy.
* Carapace on the Lerk, is absolutely useless in comp mod, here's why:
In vanilla, Lerks w/o cara can surely get one-shot by a level 3 shotgunner, as long as they are not on 5 bio mass or more. With cara it takes 2 shots.
So, that's why some high level players elected to go carapace on lerks in the late game against shotgunners, so that they can dive on them, and that's a valid point.
However, here's why it doesn't work in compmod. In vanilla you get 2 hp per biomass level on the lerk. In compmod you get 10 5 hp per biomass level! And for that reason, you can no longer one-shot the lerk, even with weapons 3 as long as the lerk is at biomass 2 3 or higher. It's safe to assume that aliens have at least 2 3 biomass by the time marines have weapons 3.
So - in effect, carapace gives you 30 effective health points against normal damage (shotguns and rifles), which at weapons 0 is 3 bullets, THREE.
So you are far better off with regen on the lerk, even if it doesn't heal in combat.
You can look at this spreadsheet to analyze the numbers. You can flip through the sheets to see the numbers for the different weapons. I don't update it that often, so some of the cmod numbers might need tweaking.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
Fair nuff on the lerk.
But I strongly disagree on the gorge's use. Sure it may still save more energy then over carapace outside of combat, but in most cases when you are outside combat, energy is not a issue.
Although I will admit it takes me further testing on a personal note to see how big the difference is. I did ofc play with the recent regen changes.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited August 2014
Heh, that was the main method of employing Bite for me, flapping loudly & face first into marines typically means death.
I hope spikes get an accuracy increase then..
Edit : could also adjust by allowing greater evasion by fixing the delay in ducking / what used to be pancaking - which comes from no acceleration when changing to downward direction because it's just making gravity apply to you instead of actually flapping downwards.
I really disliked this ability with Compmod. I felt it added unnecessary required actions to be viable.
You press Spacebar to keep a constant speed as Skulk, Lerk, and Fade. Now the Fade has an added button into the rotation...
Metabolise isn't needed to sustain the energy to move around at high speeds.
It's when you're blinking lots, swiping lots, and running out of energy metabolise means you can just duck round a corner and recover some energy without needing to find a shift or wait ages.
Was it changed since the last time I compmodded? If you didn't do it every time it was up while traveling, you would barely have enough energy to do a decent engagement when you arrived at your target. Somewhat how it currently is in pubs, but you just learned to blink less and even then you'd arrive with minimal energy.
Nothing about fade energy regen rates or movement was changed in compmod. The only thing we did was add metabolize and remove shadowstep/vortex. If you want to keep playing the fade the way it is now, in 268 simply don't push the metabolize button and your fade will be the exact same thing it currently is on live.
Nothing about fade energy regen rates or movement was changed in compmod. The only thing we did was add metabolize and remove shadowstep/vortex. If you want to keep playing the fade the way it is now, in 268 simply don't push the metabolize button and your fade will be the exact same thing it currently is on live.
Any plans for SS in the future except removing it?
For what it's worth I only see shadow step used every once and again. More often than not it's someone just playing with the ability to see what it does. Can we get lerk lift back? Being able to help a gorge move around would add a lot of utility to the lerk
SebMelbourne, AUJoin Date: 2013-04-01Member: 184576Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, WC 2013 - Silver, Retired Community Developer
I don't understand the argument that lerk is getting the short straw, or that lerk isn't the best lifeform, because it definitely is the most important lifeform in the game right now in the right hands. You would be pretty silly not to go with regen on the lerk even after the nerf. Carapace doesn't provide much benefit, and if you are worried about taking a shotgun to the face as lerk with regen you are playing the lerk wrong.
@MuckyMcFly screw that, go gorge and get behind me! When I start metabolising all over marines by mistake in the middle of an engagement I'll need the extra heals :P
I don't understand the argument that lerk is getting the short straw, or that lerk isn't the best lifeform, because it definitely is the most important lifeform in the game right now in the right hands. You would be pretty silly not to go with regen on the lerk even after the nerf. Carapace doesn't provide much benefit, and if you are worried about taking a shotgun to the face as lerk with regen you are playing the lerk wrong.
If you have bad lerks in your team, game will be over too soon. It really depends how people play their lerk but I agree, seems logical to use Regen as a lerk. But anyway, even with Carapace, i'm not so sure you could resist against a shotgun in your face. That's why everyone should play fade! Because this is the best lifeform in NS2 and the one that needs less skill (huhuh). All lifeforms are useful though and if someone is pretty good to play lerk in public or even in competitive, it can be a slaughter.
@sebb, that's the whole point. Lerks are getting the short straw because you'll be crazy to go with carapace in any situation, where as for other lifeforms in random cases it is worth while to go with either upgrade. Depending on if you play compmod or vanilla though.. No time to actually test the new regen as of yet..
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
After playing more with it, I still do not like the regen change.
Often it provides no time gain because regen did not fully heal me before I got my ass back to a hive.
I think I already explained my view on why its more suck for gorges.
After playing more with it, I still do not like the regen change.
Often it provides no time gain because regen did not fully heal me before I got my ass back to a hive.
I think I already explained my view on why its more suck for gorges.
The purpose of regen in my opinion is to allow Aliens to go back faster in combat. If you're trapped for instance, this ability will be very helpul. With any lifeforms, using regen, depending if you're very low HPs or you're not won't skip the fact to come back to the Hive, but regen, Hive in addition & sometimes a Crag, you should be able to return for fighting faster. Seems legit to don't have a such OP regen that heals you so quickly.
Carapace is a bit different, people who want to evolve with this are supposed to use it 'cause they need more health & armor in battle. That can save you in so many situations. But you don't have regen so you'll go back to the Hive more often.
Both are differents and that's why having 2 purposes is nice. The latest CompMod update tends to get this closer as far as I know.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
But its not truly different if both make you return to hive.
Trapped can be survived just as well if your team helps you get out, most of the times. Lower div aim sucks enought to get passed.
Its not just prem div where everyone plays perfect.
But its not truly different if both make you return to hive.
Trapped can be survived just as well if your team helps you get out, most of the times. Lower div aim sucks enought to get passed.
Its not just prem div where everyone plays perfect.
If regen had for goal what you said. Do you really think matches & rounds from lower divisions you mentioned will be more balanced? With lifeforms that only need to wait a few seconds to be full again, in combat or even not?
I agree there are not just premium players but in that case, it doesn't make any sense for me. I remember the last patch before regen was a bit nerfed and I can tell you trying to kill a lifeform was so frustrating. Now, it seems to be better for this point at least.
Anyway, you have a choice to make. Carapace or regeneration. Personally, I keep thinking regen is ohhh much more useful than carapace.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
I am personally not in a position to see how well lower div does due to one ability.
But I do see around me that dodging is still harder for most then aiming is. may be objective, but still.
I am personally not in a position to see how well lower div does due to one ability.
But I do see around me that dodging is still harder for most then aiming is. may be objective, but still.
Even people in lower divisions know how to play the game. Most of the players in every divisions got around 1.000 hours of playtime at least. It can be more but it's rarely less so it's easier to aim when you play so many times the same game. Dodging is a bit different & harder because you need to know how your ennemy moves, shoots, etc, especially if you fight against stronger players than you are.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
which brings us back to the original topic..
if dodging is harder, no regen in combat will hit lower divs harder as you just confirmed aiming is easier to pick up then dodging.
Heh, that was the main method of employing Bite for me, flapping loudly & face first into marines typically means death.
I hope spikes get an accuracy increase then..
Edit : could also adjust by allowing greater evasion by fixing the delay in ducking / what used to be pancaking - which comes from no acceleration when changing to downward direction because it's just making gravity apply to you instead of actually flapping downwards.
Fast moving lifeform with free silence is not really good game mechanic (without proper upgrade). Some may remember the more silent the faster you move skulks and perma silent fades. It's this kind of mechanics (bugs) that made many old ns1 players leave the game.
So many memories playing Combat NS1 with metabolize fade. It's really hard to top having that much fun in an FPS. Being such a complicated yet so rewarding skill style developing around blinking and metabolizing mid air.
However, NS2, having the shit computer I have, I still don't see myself doing anything but being Gorge and/or Commander. It's hard enough to do anything even with the Super Low Res mod. But if I had a good super computer that could run NS2 well.. then hot dang I'd be excited for this hypothetical, unconfirmed bringing back of Metabolize (Hopefully) to replace (useless) Vortex.
Comments
* Onos regen has been nerfed sure becuase of the heal cap.
* Gorges with regen is still very useful - for the reasons you listed your self, it basically saves energy.
* Carapace on the Lerk, is absolutely useless in comp mod, here's why:
In vanilla, Lerks w/o cara can surely get one-shot by a level 3 shotgunner, as long as they are not on 5 bio mass or more. With cara it takes 2 shots.
So, that's why some high level players elected to go carapace on lerks in the late game against shotgunners, so that they can dive on them, and that's a valid point.
However, here's why it doesn't work in compmod. In vanilla you get 2 hp per biomass level on the lerk. In compmod you get 10 5 hp per biomass level! And for that reason, you can no longer one-shot the lerk, even with weapons 3 as long as the lerk is at biomass 2 3 or higher. It's safe to assume that aliens have at least 2 3 biomass by the time marines have weapons 3.
So - in effect, carapace gives you 30 effective health points against normal damage (shotguns and rifles), which at weapons 0 is 3 bullets, THREE.
So you are far better off with regen on the lerk, even if it doesn't heal in combat.
You can look at this spreadsheet to analyze the numbers. You can flip through the sheets to see the numbers for the different weapons. I don't update it that often, so some of the cmod numbers might need tweaking.
Edit: Correction from Rant.
But I strongly disagree on the gorge's use. Sure it may still save more energy then over carapace outside of combat, but in most cases when you are outside combat, energy is not a issue.
Although I will admit it takes me further testing on a personal note to see how big the difference is. I did ofc play with the recent regen changes.
This is incorrect, compmod lerks currently receive 5hp per biomass (check the patch notes from 7/13)
Thanks, post and spreadsheet updated.
I hope spikes get an accuracy increase then..
Edit : could also adjust by allowing greater evasion by fixing the delay in ducking / what used to be pancaking - which comes from no acceleration when changing to downward direction because it's just making gravity apply to you instead of actually flapping downwards.
Was it changed since the last time I compmodded? If you didn't do it every time it was up while traveling, you would barely have enough energy to do a decent engagement when you arrived at your target. Somewhat how it currently is in pubs, but you just learned to blink less and even then you'd arrive with minimal energy.
Nothing about fade energy regen rates or movement was changed in compmod. The only thing we did was add metabolize and remove shadowstep/vortex. If you want to keep playing the fade the way it is now, in 268 simply don't push the metabolize button and your fade will be the exact same thing it currently is on live.
Any plans for SS in the future except removing it?
@ball2hi What i just mentioned might be the cause of you getting that, but I didnt find it toooo hard to get used to.
That said, consider the skill floor for fade raised?
Can you imagine lerk lift and bile bomb, do you guys remember the beta version of lerks with bile? Oh my god.
Im looking forward to seeing @meatmachine in action with Metabolize. Better start practicing my aim.
If you have bad lerks in your team, game will be over too soon. It really depends how people play their lerk but I agree, seems logical to use Regen as a lerk. But anyway, even with Carapace, i'm not so sure you could resist against a shotgun in your face. That's why everyone should play fade! Because this is the best lifeform in NS2 and the one that needs less skill (huhuh). All lifeforms are useful though and if someone is pretty good to play lerk in public or even in competitive, it can be a slaughter.
Often it provides no time gain because regen did not fully heal me before I got my ass back to a hive.
I think I already explained my view on why its more suck for gorges.
The purpose of regen in my opinion is to allow Aliens to go back faster in combat. If you're trapped for instance, this ability will be very helpul. With any lifeforms, using regen, depending if you're very low HPs or you're not won't skip the fact to come back to the Hive, but regen, Hive in addition & sometimes a Crag, you should be able to return for fighting faster. Seems legit to don't have a such OP regen that heals you so quickly.
Carapace is a bit different, people who want to evolve with this are supposed to use it 'cause they need more health & armor in battle. That can save you in so many situations. But you don't have regen so you'll go back to the Hive more often.
Both are differents and that's why having 2 purposes is nice. The latest CompMod update tends to get this closer as far as I know.
Trapped can be survived just as well if your team helps you get out, most of the times. Lower div aim sucks enought to get passed.
Its not just prem div where everyone plays perfect.
If regen had for goal what you said. Do you really think matches & rounds from lower divisions you mentioned will be more balanced? With lifeforms that only need to wait a few seconds to be full again, in combat or even not?
I agree there are not just premium players but in that case, it doesn't make any sense for me. I remember the last patch before regen was a bit nerfed and I can tell you trying to kill a lifeform was so frustrating. Now, it seems to be better for this point at least.
Anyway, you have a choice to make. Carapace or regeneration. Personally, I keep thinking regen is ohhh much more useful than carapace.
But I do see around me that dodging is still harder for most then aiming is. may be objective, but still.
Even people in lower divisions know how to play the game. Most of the players in every divisions got around 1.000 hours of playtime at least. It can be more but it's rarely less so it's easier to aim when you play so many times the same game. Dodging is a bit different & harder because you need to know how your ennemy moves, shoots, etc, especially if you fight against stronger players than you are.
if dodging is harder, no regen in combat will hit lower divs harder as you just confirmed aiming is easier to pick up then dodging.
Fast moving lifeform with free silence is not really good game mechanic (without proper upgrade). Some may remember the more silent the faster you move skulks and perma silent fades. It's this kind of mechanics (bugs) that made many old ns1 players leave the game.
However, NS2, having the shit computer I have, I still don't see myself doing anything but being Gorge and/or Commander. It's hard enough to do anything even with the Super Low Res mod. But if I had a good super computer that could run NS2 well.. then hot dang I'd be excited for this hypothetical, unconfirmed bringing back of Metabolize (Hopefully) to replace (useless) Vortex.
No longer unconfirmed...