Bully Rookies -- Summer Sale Aftermath 4 CDT of NS2
ZeroEarTh
Singapore Join Date: 2014-07-01 Member: 197126Members
Singapore Join Date: 2014-07-01 Member: 197126Members
Hi , im recently switch from Counter Strike GO and im see this game quite interresting , alot to learn , require skill and not "Mouse Click get Kill-streak" 
)
But when im playing and start to get used to what new players call >>>> "Rookies Bully or Stomping"
Players count that im checking from SteamChartNS2 >> down from Sale (1450) to after right now is 357 players when im posting this
Dear CDT , Its Super Effective your videos help me alot when get into this game as a brand new player
But THIS is why i think New players getting Fruitstrating >> and quiting while being bully , Those players think they are "pro" ....
Hope my request that making build 257 and future update more fun for casual players , new players >> Match making Mode like CounterStrike:Global Offensive
Extra : For those comments say im a new players and allways Join Marine because Call of Duty That Click Mouse get Killstreak , im playing aliens too and practice BOTH side
Just try to say that game need Match making:D
Players that Stacking and excuse in my topic is " Newbie allways play Marine , so we have to stack ?"
)But when im playing and start to get used to what new players call >>>> "Rookies Bully or Stomping"
Players count that im checking from SteamChartNS2 >> down from Sale (1450) to after right now is 357 players when im posting this
Dear CDT , Its Super Effective your videos help me alot when get into this game as a brand new player
But THIS is why i think New players getting Fruitstrating >> and quiting while being bully , Those players think they are "pro" ....
Hope my request that making build 257 and future update more fun for casual players , new players >> Match making Mode like CounterStrike:Global Offensive
Extra : For those comments say im a new players and allways Join Marine because Call of Duty That Click Mouse get Killstreak , im playing aliens too and practice BOTH side
Just try to say that game need Match making:D
Players that Stacking and excuse in my topic is " Newbie allways play Marine , so we have to stack ?"
Comments
To date I have only ever seen 2-3 rookies switch over to aliens when this happens.
Playercount has highs and lows every day. Right now, it's nighttime in Australasia instead of nighttime in America so there are naturally less people playing. You're measuring a high against a low. For a proper comparison, there were 1900 players on the high point first day of sale. The low point of that first day was 800 players (before shooting back up the next day). So it's really 800 down to 357. Or 1900 down to 950.
Also, regarding your matchmaking suggestion: there simply isn't enough players to sustain it at the moment, and likely never will be anymore. So the ship has sailed in including such a feature (although there probably never was enough for it to really work that well).
I personally would like to at least see rookie-only servers during sales when these servers could be sustained, but I think the ship has sailed on that too, as there have been less and less sales recently that produced massive green waves (like we previously saw in the content patches and earlier sales when the game was still relatively fresh).
On the other hand new marines were getting ambushed by regular alien players with ease.
Its a tough game but those who stick with it, grab a mic and actually communicate will get one of the best multi-player experiences out there.
I would argue that the community is ultimately better of without them, because most of them mistake NS2 for a single player shooter (or even a single player rts as this reddit post shows). They don't communicate, they are unwilling to learn and they ruin every game they join because of lack of teamwork. Also, the stacking problem evident on the screenshot you posted is not only the veteran players fault (not saying they are innocent at all, there is always another way), but as d0pedD0g said often the rookies themselves create the stack by all joining marines every single round.
Please don't get me wrong, I do welcome new players who are willing to communicate and learn. Unfortunately, that's a small minority. I run a rookie-friendly server and during sales often try to even the teams by forcing random, asking people to switch sides, commanding and generally talking to greens and teaching them the game. However, in my experience only 5-10% of them are even receptive of these measures, the rest just ignores me, mutes my voice chat and goes about their business of running around clueless alone and dying all day.
So congratulations, by posting on this forum you have proven to be at least interested in communication, you are the 5%
You have to understand that under these circumstances even patient or usually fair players sometimes loose their cool and just join the better team because they can't bear it anymore. After being asked to leave my own server because I was "stomping" (I was doing 20/5 which is hardly stomping, but can you blame me for trying to play a game I bought on my own server?) by some freshly non green rookies, I stopped playing pub for the duration of the sale because it was becoming just too annoying.
Team stacking is a constant complaint that comes up with NS2, it's nothing new. It's just magnified when the sales happen.
NS2 rewards you with knowledge. The best place to hide to ambush as skulk, silent strikes as a fade or lerk. Best positioning to shoot stuff as a marine etc. I play lots of other games but NS2 still offers me a sense of team work. Playing with the same core players helps I guess.
However, afaik this system is for balancing the teams using a "force even teams"-vote so it will only be useful for rookies that are fine with trying out the alien side.
But I can relate why people start with the marine side: it's obviously more familiar in terms of gameplay and setting/feel.
Nobody here cares about such dumb concepts like "fun", "casual players", "size of playerbase" or "public gameplay", what matters is ice-cold competitive balance with as little variation and randomness as possible (bad for balance m'kay?). Pub scrubs do only exist so comp players can slaughter them with stacked teams, as an warm up before a scrim.
Why? Because NS2 will be the next Halo/Starcraft/LoL! Yes, yes! Nobody needs an "casual player base" when you have the same couple of dozen people duking it out in the same hand full of tournaments, ain't that fun for everybody?
While we are at it: When is UWE finally gonna remove those scrub crutches Xenocide and Exo's? These things require no skill and/or are never used in a competitive setting, why leave them in the game at all?
Joke aside.. your hearth is in the right place, but be prepared to get torn apart for that opinion of yours.
It's the fault of the games design, there are no easy ways to get started in the game because it lacks any non-competitive "messing around modes", no explore mode does not count because it does not really allow for experimentation. No amount of HowTo videos on YouTube can make up for the lack of experience trough experimentation.
New players can't experiment and even if they try, they get mobbed out of the game because they are playing the game "the wrong way".
It's all kind of tragic.. what prevented NS1 from becoming super mainstream had been it's steep learning curve, NS2 could have been a chance to make up on that, but we wouldn't have that because the oh so important "competitive balance" prevented any changes that would have made the game more approachable and fun for non-competitive players.
A good game is "Easy to learn but hard to master", making a game "Hard to learn and even harder to master" is not a concept that's appealing to a mainstream audience, which used to be the original target demographic for NS2.
Its amazing how well they are at rookie stacking. When asking rookies to swap sides, you may get lucky 1 every 4 to 5 rounds.
I sympathise that the learning curve is large, so rookies will naturally flock to marines, being the team they are most familiar with and can see more immediate rewards from (if you can aim and hit things, you can at least get some kills even in your first game, whereas it's a lot more difficult as the unfamiliar aliens). This gives them the sense that they aren't jumping right into the deep end and yes, gives them more room to breathe/experiment.
That's perfectly understandable. However, as long as they're stacked on one side, against a team comprised almost entirely of regulars, they are not just in the deep end - they are in the middle of the ocean, surrounded by sharks. I can't imagine they are any more able to experiment in this environment than they are in an even game on the less familiar aliens team.
I often try and explain to them that teams are imbalanced, and the only way to avoid the absolute certainty that they're going to get completely demolished (something that's not fun for either side) is if they switch teams. I tell them to hold tab and see the skill imbalance for themselves - pointing out the disproportionate number of green rookies between teams. Yet, in spite of the fact that all of this is explained to them, people swapping rarely happens. And often it's even just as difficult to get a force even teams vote happening, and sometimes even results in a rookie player swapping back to marines (if there's a slot available), f4ing, or leaving the server.
I still sympathise that they're getting stomped. But I get miffed when people like OP accuse players of rookie-bullying, and post a screenshot of a clear rookie-stack as "proof". There's absolutely nothing these so-called "bullies" could have done to stop this from happening.
Tbh. All rookie players should be required to complete a skulk time trial before they can even join a server. The time-to-beat should be low enough to require the use of at least a few walljumps. This would hopefully mitigate the phenomenon of "floor-skulking" and also teach them a bit of alien movement before having to go up against other players (hopefully in turn reducing the number of marine-stacks by mitigating the feeling that they're being thrown into the deep end). An optional fade time-trial that you can do after you complete the skulk one would also help those who otherwise don't know how to use blink+jump. I understand that the lack of interactive tutorials is due to lack of resources to put into development, but surely something like this is within arms reach to develop.
Agreed. When I can jump on to play, it is good to see rookies on a server (fresh blood is always good). But the problem is I type like mad in chat to tell them to split up in teams and not stack one team, so vets can teach them the game, and also to encourage them to ask questions. Usually, i am met with silence. The few times I got good responses was when I could take on a rookie one on one (server hasn't filled), so it was 3v3. Then when I encountered the rookie, I can give him advice (I was marine):
me: /killed him when he was a ground skulk coming right for me
"x, as a skulk, you shouldn't be on the ground, its easy target for me" try walking on walls and ceilings to confuse me"
me: /killed him again (he was wall walking this time
"x, try to use cover more, if you use "2" to parasite me, you get to wall hack for about 30 seconds, then you can ambush instead of rushing, you can also walk (shift) to move silently.
me: F#$% got parasited, and killed by x (I suck at aiming btw)
"nice work, you are getting it".
At this point he actually wrote back and thanked me for the advice. Mind you, all this time he did not respond when I gave advice, but did follow through with it. Moral of story, its hard to teach in a pub setting with high player counts because it is too chaotic. I have no real solution to this, except may be if UWE can have some rookie ONLY official servers with vets signing up to do the teaching - so only the signed on vets can join unless you are a rookie. I know there is a mentor program, but all of this is driven by us the community. It would be nice if UWE could put a word in (may be advertise it during the install loading screen?).
lol
CS:GO actually has a lot of crossover with Marines imo. Same playercount on the field, communication and teamwork is mandatory, you have to aim at small targets that certainly aren't as fast as a skulk but require similar reaction time since your target is shooting back at you now.
and it's definitely not a game about spray and pray..
Its a good thing this game has dat optimisation so we dont have to use dat resolution.
I hate playing against rookies, I get remorse when I'm farming a rookie team so much so that I try to avoid it at all costs now. I don't mind helping rookies but after the 1000th time, I just want to play a good team based game with communication and people that know what to do.
To the OP: matchmaking wouldn't work. Game is too low of a population to support that feature.
@ritualsacrifice I think he means at the lower end of the skill spectrum, players don't tend to line headshots but rather spray erratically.
It's asking a lot for a new player to play classic ns, I played combat on ns1 for years before I was any good at ns maps.
Also I fear that the standalone combat game is taking too long and won't be nearly as successful as it could have been due to the tens of thousands of people who liked the look of ns2, bought it, got frustrated and haven't picked it up since. They will most likely overlook combat as dlc for a game they didn't like.
The internet contains all sorts of people, as does the community. I've been fortunate enough to play with plenty of NS2 players will take the time to balance the teams, or at the very least not participate in a unbalanced game (I get the frustration that comes with trying to carry a rookie team to victory).
But yes, I've also ran into some surprising players and admins who should know better and only hurt the player retention.
I'd like to take a moment to commend those who exercise patience and understanding with the new batch of rookies by answering questions, coaching or at least helping them understand the reasons why things didn't work out.
But not only that, to recognize the people of the amount of tolerance and true strength it takes to set aside one's goals and go out if their way if it means that a rookie can get a few more minutes of explanation.
On my picture , im not a players who not listen for team , im join that Green team and see how can i help them anti-stack
Its seem after Many Stack game that im trying to defend the Rookies >> Those stacker have quit , and they are not Nice people on Internet when keep braging about "Badges" and "Pro"
I have seen that happen, but when it does its still very rare that you couldnt join marines and help them, thats just a bad excuse(most of the time). Over 90% of the time i was the only one with maybe 1 regular + the rookies against the alien stack. How can i join marines and help if no one else cant? If it really happens shuffle/randomize?
On low skill servers most games are won by aliens and people like to stack aliens, especially when there are a lot of rookies around(playing marines with bad com can be annoying, no meds no ammo etc.)
On high skill servers(when there are good players around) most games are won by marines and people like to stack marines. You will never get completely rid of stacking without matchmaking that works(which will most likely never happen, its not easy to make). Some people just want give themself an edge by beign on the team more likely to win.
Right now when you see an obvious stack the best option is to shuffle/randomize teams... and vote yes.
You would have skulk+marine pairs all around the map (maybe with macs to weld the marines). Have scripted events happen such that a skulk will bite it's marine, then another one will bite it's marine on the other side of the map, then another may bite it's marine twice. Maybe even have 2 pairs in one room biting at the same time. Basically, have the requests become more urgent and frequent as time passes (i.e. slowly increase the difficulty of juggling medpack requests over time). If by the time is up, you successfully med your marines such that no more than 1 of them dies, then you complete the tutorial and can then command real games. The tutorial wouldn't be too difficult, but just hard enough to require the use of hotkeys to med.
Perhaps the requirement to have completed this tutorial shouldn't exist on rookie-friendly and rookie-only servers, or if the vast majority of players on a server/team hasn't completed this tutorial.
I commanded a game a few days ago where all the meds came from mostly 3 people and they were always in a location I explicitly said not to go to. Guess if they got meds or not. In the mean time players who went where I wanted them to got meds and amo before they could make a request.
Plus, Zero, you have 5 kills one assist, Colonel has 2 kills 5 assists, indicating the two of you are working together in a fashion the rest of your team isn't, they might appreciate some of your previous FPS knowledge you display
PLz go back into retirement.