Easy games are not fun, not having to improve is not fun.
Dark souls wouldn't be very enjoyable either with sluggish controls, has very little to do with skill.
The assumption that this mod removes all skill advancement from the game and aims to make it casual isn't based on fact. Just ask some of the guys in this thread that tried it out with us last Sunday. Players of all skill levels enjoy the agility this change gives them.
Walljumping as an end-all to speed ultimately limits skulk utility and makes it sluggish. It's nice for fast travel but that's about it.
Easy games are not fun, not having to improve is not fun.
Dark souls wouldn't be very enjoyable either with sluggish controls, has very little to do with skill.
The assumption that this mod removes all skill advancement from the game and aims to make it casual isn't based on fact. Just ask some of the guys in this thread that tried it out with us last Sunday. Players of all skill levels enjoy the agility this change gives them.
Walljumping as an end-all to speed ultimately limits skulk utility and makes it sluggish. It's nice for fast travel but that's about it.
Yes I agree. Wlf has this backwards - the base movement speed boost is going to assist the veteran, NOT the rookie. That perticular change is only going to increase the skill gap imo. Ironhorse already touched on that as well.
A veteran player is not going to care too much that the skulks are slightly faster on the ground, because the veteran player understands proper positioning and is unlikely to be caught off guard easily as such.
But the lesser skilled marine player, who doesn't have outstanding map awareness - will no longer be able to dodge a mediocre ambushing skulk.
So for the veteran, the change means nothing. For mediocre casual players, it's a huge handicap.
@joshhh@Wlf@Santaclaws et al.... I think you've been arguing about theoretical mechanics on these forums too long.
The difference with this 'debate' is we've actually made a mod can play! There is literally no point butting into the discussion without having experience to base your argument on. Its funny EVERYONE who played the mod over the weekend thought the skulk readjustment was an improvement.
But lets all try and keep things in perspective here. We've made a mod to experiment with fixing the game for our personal enjoyment. I'm not sure how you can 'disagree' with that. By not playing it and flying into an argument about the changes you're missing out an opportunity to become more informed about NS2 and its game mechanics. Its and experiment, its something different just take it as that.
Get involved, get your hands dirty with our 'casual' mod then you can actually contribute to helping us make the right decisions in future.
I'll take this opportunity to extend invite to everyone who's interested in trying the mod to come play it with us on Friday 9pm gmt. You can join our mumble server and talk to us in person. You might just have some fun and help improve our ideas. All we ask is you come with an open mind and a friendly attitude.
NS2 game server: 212.38.163.88:27015
Mumble server IP: scc.mostlyoriginal.net
Port: 12437
Nope marine speed is exactly the same, only chaining jumps without a short pause will reduce speed. You have to play it to understand. People still jump to avoid skulks you just have to do it less frequently.
I actually noticed no difference in skulk/rine movement on sunday. But I played so many different versions so far...my mind might became deadened.
What I noticed were the lmg sound, the 140 kill fade and the painfully slow Dual-Exo. Didn't really enjoy the Exo, but I didn't mind everything else. Even the lmg sound doesn't grind your nerves after 80mins of play. You get strangly used to it
Yeah as for the marine jumping cap - It doesn't really change how engagements go other than you can't circle-juke a skulk for like 5+ seconds while reloading or whatever. Basically if you're gonna circlestrafejukejump you need to be able to hit the skulk you're juking which isn't hard as it tends to give them pretty predictable trajectories.
I really don't see the issue in having the best of all worlds, when we as players finally have the option. The only choice you normally have when you play games, is which ones to play. I find myself playing all genres of games, since I like the core values they all share and also the values that sets them apart. I always enjoyed team play more in shooters, while I enjoyed solo experiences more in RTS and RPG.
Here we have the option to mod the game:
* This enable us to balance a mod and it's features for hardcore pcw / comp play.
* Make a balance mod for a bunch of great people that already innovate content to the game, to shake up their experience of the game to personal liking, and in addition, possible stumble upon something, maybe all can agree on, will improve the game in general.
* A few balance mods for some private server owners that like it diffrent.
We finally have some freedom besides relying on the dev team behind it, it's freaking rare in todays gaming industry compared to the 90's-00's. Here you can shape / share content and choose exactly what you play with you and yours, there shouldn't be any problems surrounding that at all.
On an off note, I've seen great and bad games live for years with just a 100 players, they didn't even play daily, but they still kept the community alive through message boards such as ours, and they did play weekly captain games, we got 10x that size in average players. We are nowhere near splitting up the game as of yet, people are just enjoying a modded game how it should be enjoyed in my own opinion. There's no branches of NS2, there is the core game and modded versions of it which are all under the same category "mod".
I actually noticed no difference in skulk/rine movement on sunday. But I played so many different versions so far...my mind might became deadened.
What I noticed were the lmg sound, the 140 kill fade and the painfully slow Dual-Exo. Didn't really enjoy the Exo, but I didn't mind everything else. Even the lmg sound doesn't grind your nerves after 80mins of play. You get strangly used to it
the exo was AWESOME dont say anything against the exo! it had fucking IMPACT ON THE GAME!!
try THAT with those squishy lightning fast exos you kids play with today...
Yeah as for the marine jumping cap - It doesn't really change how engagements go other than you can't circle-juke a skulk for like 5+ seconds while reloading or whatever. Basically if you're gonna circlestrafejukejump you need to be able to hit the skulk you're juking which isn't hard as it tends to give them pretty predictable trajectories.
Sir, sir, you faded 150 kills. If we'd plot you on a graph we'd need bigger paper. You Yoclan devil! I suspect there are some performance enhancing drugs in play.
the problem that people have with this mod isn't its content, it's how the mod presents itself. you say that you're "fixing" things about ns2 which are "broken." ns2 needs a "bandaid" because it's "broken" and nobody can be bothered to fix it. skulk movement isn't broken and it doesn't need fixing. now, if you want to change skulk movement, play around with it, break it, punch it up, whatever, then that's fine. but here you've released a mod obviously geared toward balance, and you claim it's about "fixing" the game. so what's your first target for your fixes? skulk / marine dynamic, obviously the least broken part of ns2. how can you be surprised by the reaction you're seeing?
if you want to dick around with balance or exos or sounds or whatever, feel free. but don't be surprised when people get upset if you claim that ns2 is broken and your dumb changes can fix it.
When people say a "band-aid" fix I thought they mean a short term thing (e.g printing money is a bandaid fix for a high dollar). Is this a thing in NZ only?
The important thing to remember here is that the mod is changeable. If enough people don't like the skulk/marine interactions (after trying it hopefully) then it will change, but its only with trying different things that we find what does and doesn't work.
...
I spent so long trying to compose this post that the gif is burned into my brain now :V
@kmg perception of whether game mechanics are broken/bad is apparently completely arbitrary, especially in NS2 it seems. coming from a guy trying to 'fix' descent' you should understand this.... If the common perception is that something is bad or doesn't feel right that it needs fixing. The SCC mapping community we run has been made up of many NS2 long time players. When everyone is complaining about the same things then you have to listen. These tweaks aren't based off one mans whim, but the collective moaning off many different people over years of playing the game.
The name was only thought about for a few seconds its completely trivial to us. These small tweaks are easy changes to make our Sunday games more exciting and get us into the swing of fiddling with things. Many of our old regulars have become fed up with the game and very rarely play it anymore. the mod is more of an experimental platform for us to try new stuff for our own enjoyment, inject something new into the thing and bring some of the old timers back.
When people say a "band-aid" fix I thought they mean a short term thing
It is really is just this, a temporary quick fix for what our members perceive are issues, to bridge the gap until the CDT gets their balance patch out. The name signifies we are just a bunch of modders and mappers with no illusions of making the right choices, just quck ones that work for us (and might work for some others!).
It's not a political statement about the CDT or the state of the game. Getting this thread moved to general just gave that appearance. (Though I have no issues if focus shifted from the engine to the gameplay). We have a very practical need to keep the map tests going, and for us it truly is a fun way to do it. at least for a little while.
- Biomass affects all alien structures.
- Place alien tech tree behind traditional tech tree UI.
- Revised progression mechanic for alien tech to allow for more varied matches.
- Increased LMG bullet size.
- Restored old onos health.
- Decreased shotgun pellets by 5, but fixed prediction issues that affects all but a few players.
- Jetpacks now only hover, can doublejump for a short vertical boost.
- jetpackers exchange 10% armor for jetpacking ability.
- Gorge base speed increased by 10%
- Added tri-faced facegate to combat impervious gate grinding.
- Marine placable turrets, max 3 per room, 20 res each.
- Added beta teleport to fades.
- Lerk can lift skulks and gorges.
- Lerk gets bile at highest biomass.
- Added wall jumping to gorges. Gave gorges rebounding quality of rubber.
- Gave onos the ability to swallow exo; grow one or two shoulder mounted miniguns.
- -25% damage for specific scc members to balance out their scores with evryone else.
- Players with 100+ kills explode like a nuke.
Comments
You take a specific example and derive a rule from it. That's bad argumenting. (See: Hasty generalisation fallacy.)
My counterexample: The Stanley Parable is a very easy game. In fact, you can not even lose. However, it's incredibly fun.
Go play pugs and leave these modders and their appreciative fans alone.
Clearly there is a demand for some of these changes. Some of them will turn out to be detrimental to gameplay and they'll eventually be revised.
Boo hoo. Move along.
Dark souls wouldn't be very enjoyable either with sluggish controls, has very little to do with skill.
The assumption that this mod removes all skill advancement from the game and aims to make it casual isn't based on fact. Just ask some of the guys in this thread that tried it out with us last Sunday. Players of all skill levels enjoy the agility this change gives them.
Walljumping as an end-all to speed ultimately limits skulk utility and makes it sluggish. It's nice for fast travel but that's about it.
Yes I agree. Wlf has this backwards - the base movement speed boost is going to assist the veteran, NOT the rookie. That perticular change is only going to increase the skill gap imo. Ironhorse already touched on that as well.
A veteran player is not going to care too much that the skulks are slightly faster on the ground, because the veteran player understands proper positioning and is unlikely to be caught off guard easily as such.
But the lesser skilled marine player, who doesn't have outstanding map awareness - will no longer be able to dodge a mediocre ambushing skulk.
So for the veteran, the change means nothing. For mediocre casual players, it's a huge handicap.
I disagree with the purpose of them which for me is nonsense.
I am certainly wrong tho, im french afterall ...
Wrong.
The difference with this 'debate' is we've actually made a mod can play! There is literally no point butting into the discussion without having experience to base your argument on. Its funny EVERYONE who played the mod over the weekend thought the skulk readjustment was an improvement.
But lets all try and keep things in perspective here. We've made a mod to experiment with fixing the game for our personal enjoyment. I'm not sure how you can 'disagree' with that. By not playing it and flying into an argument about the changes you're missing out an opportunity to become more informed about NS2 and its game mechanics. Its and experiment, its something different just take it as that.
Get involved, get your hands dirty with our 'casual' mod then you can actually contribute to helping us make the right decisions in future.
NS2 game server: 212.38.163.88:27015
Mumble server IP: scc.mostlyoriginal.net
Port: 12437
You changed marine speed as well don't forget.
What I noticed were the lmg sound, the 140 kill fade and the painfully slow Dual-Exo. Didn't really enjoy the Exo, but I didn't mind everything else. Even the lmg sound doesn't grind your nerves after 80mins of play. You get strangly used to it
Here we have the option to mod the game:
* This enable us to balance a mod and it's features for hardcore pcw / comp play.
* Make a balance mod for a bunch of great people that already innovate content to the game, to shake up their experience of the game to personal liking, and in addition, possible stumble upon something, maybe all can agree on, will improve the game in general.
* A few balance mods for some private server owners that like it diffrent.
We finally have some freedom besides relying on the dev team behind it, it's freaking rare in todays gaming industry compared to the 90's-00's. Here you can shape / share content and choose exactly what you play with you and yours, there shouldn't be any problems surrounding that at all.
On an off note, I've seen great and bad games live for years with just a 100 players, they didn't even play daily, but they still kept the community alive through message boards such as ours, and they did play weekly captain games, we got 10x that size in average players. We are nowhere near splitting up the game as of yet, people are just enjoying a modded game how it should be enjoyed in my own opinion. There's no branches of NS2, there is the core game and modded versions of it which are all under the same category "mod".
the exo was AWESOME dont say anything against the exo! it had fucking IMPACT ON THE GAME!!
try THAT with those squishy lightning fast exos you kids play with today...
If it stays that slow, add at least some awesome 90t mechwarrior footstep sounds so I feel badass crawling around
Sir, sir, you faded 150 kills. If we'd plot you on a graph we'd need bigger paper. You Yoclan devil! I suspect there are some performance enhancing drugs in play.
if you want to dick around with balance or exos or sounds or whatever, feel free. but don't be surprised when people get upset if you claim that ns2 is broken and your dumb changes can fix it.
The important thing to remember here is that the mod is changeable. If enough people don't like the skulk/marine interactions (after trying it hopefully) then it will change, but its only with trying different things that we find what does and doesn't work.
...
I spent so long trying to compose this post that the gif is burned into my brain now :V
To be fair, I think that's about all it's really supposed to be good for.
The name was only thought about for a few seconds its completely trivial to us. These small tweaks are easy changes to make our Sunday games more exciting and get us into the swing of fiddling with things. Many of our old regulars have become fed up with the game and very rarely play it anymore. the mod is more of an experimental platform for us to try new stuff for our own enjoyment, inject something new into the thing and bring some of the old timers back.
It is really is just this, a temporary quick fix for what our members perceive are issues, to bridge the gap until the CDT gets their balance patch out. The name signifies we are just a bunch of modders and mappers with no illusions of making the right choices, just quck ones that work for us (and might work for some others!).
It's not a political statement about the CDT or the state of the game. Getting this thread moved to general just gave that appearance. (Though I have no issues if focus shifted from the engine to the gameplay). We have a very practical need to keep the map tests going, and for us it truly is a fun way to do it. at least for a little while.
- Biomass affects all alien structures.
- Place alien tech tree behind traditional tech tree UI.
- Revised progression mechanic for alien tech to allow for more varied matches.
- Increased LMG bullet size.
- Restored old onos health.
- Decreased shotgun pellets by 5, but fixed prediction issues that affects all but a few players.
- Jetpacks now only hover, can doublejump for a short vertical boost.
- jetpackers exchange 10% armor for jetpacking ability.
- Gorge base speed increased by 10%
- Added tri-faced facegate to combat impervious gate grinding.
- Marine placable turrets, max 3 per room, 20 res each.
- Added beta teleport to fades.
- Lerk can lift skulks and gorges.
- Lerk gets bile at highest biomass.
- Added wall jumping to gorges. Gave gorges rebounding quality of rubber.
- Gave onos the ability to swallow exo; grow one or two shoulder mounted miniguns.
- -25% damage for specific scc members to balance out their scores with evryone else.
- Players with 100+ kills explode like a nuke.
This gives me flashbacks from the beta.
The horror... The horror...