Is there improvement on 3D objects exporter ?
example : For blender
Stuff like that.
Nope! Only options are A) Use blender and be content that you won't get any proper collision geometry for your model, nor any animations, or Get your hands on a copy of 3dsmax 2009*. Newer versions don't work either.
*BeigeAlert does not endorse any illegal efforts to *aquire* 3dsmax 2009... even though ALL efforts are illegal unless you own a time machine.
So. Ns2 is following the natural transhumance to oblivion.
I supose it is pretty unworthy to make custom maps as the time needed to do things properly is still high. Not to mention the licence issue with 3DSmax. By the time it is finished (with new props) nobody will play the map simply because there won't be many players left.
I thaught devs would have done something about it.
So. Ns2 is following the natural transhumance to oblivion.
I supose it is pretty unworthy to make custom maps as the time needed to do things properly is still high. Not to mention the licence issue with 3DSmax. By the time it is finished (with new props) nobody will play the map simply because there won't be many players left.
I thaught devs would have done something about it.
That's why I'm trying to make another community map project. I figure if enough people come together, we can get a really good map made before there's nobody left to play it.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
You only need 3ds max is yuo want to make animated players etc. If you want to make models for maps, you can do that with any program.
There are many maps filled with custom models, custom models for mapping is really not that hard, other than making the models themselves. pg_dm6 has had custom models in it for a couple of years..
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
The COLLADA export plug-in used with NS2 is a customised version of collada that is specifically tailored to 32-bit 3dsMax09 and NS2. There have been attempts to convert it to a newer model editor, but no luck to date, as far as I am aware.
You only need 3ds max is yuo want to make animated players etc. If you want to make models for maps, you can do that with any program.
There are many maps filled with custom models, custom models for mapping is really not that hard, other than making the models themselves. pg_dm6 has had custom models in it for a couple of years..
Collisions collisions collisions!! I guess it works just fine if you prop just happens to be ONE, completely convex shape... but really how often is that going to come up?
you can add basic "collision" geo in the editor as a work around if you so wish
Yea that'll work... but far from ideal. What if you make a change to a prop that requires an update to the collision geo? And what if there are hundreds of these props scattered around?
Whats the problem with the newest 3dsmax? Does it generate different DAE files?
There was a technology in 3dsmax called "reactor". This was -- if I understand correctly -- a physics library that the UWE-provided exporter script uses to export the collision data. 3dsmax '10 and up use physx if I remember correctly, which yea is a lot closer to what ns2 uses, but the script and model compiler would need to be updated... and we all know that isn't going to happen any time soon... probably never for ns2.
Short answer: yes, it generates different dae files.
Whats the problem with the newest 3dsmax? Does it generate different DAE files?
There was a technology in 3dsmax called "reactor". This was -- if I understand correctly -- a physics library that the UWE-provided exporter script uses to export the collision data. 3dsmax '10 and up use physx if I remember correctly, which yea is a lot closer to what ns2 uses, but the script and model compiler would need to be updated... and we all know that isn't going to happen any time soon... probably never for ns2.
I don't see why it would be related to Reactor. If it were Reactor, it would work in 3dsmax 2011.
I think it only need to be recompiled for the proper version, but I am no 3dsmax expert (and 2009 is really easy to find btw, even though it is clearly not perfect).
Whats the problem with the newest 3dsmax? Does it generate different DAE files?
There was a technology in 3dsmax called "reactor". This was -- if I understand correctly -- a physics library that the UWE-provided exporter script uses to export the collision data. 3dsmax '10 and up use physx if I remember correctly, which yea is a lot closer to what ns2 uses, but the script and model compiler would need to be updated... and we all know that isn't going to happen any time soon... probably never for ns2.
I don't see why it would be related to Reactor. If it were Reactor, it would work in 3dsmax 2011.
I think it only need to be recompiled for the proper version, but I am no 3dsmax expert (and 2009 is really easy to find btw, even though it is clearly not perfect).
McGlaspiewww.team156.comJoin Date: 2010-07-26Member: 73044Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester
So...who's interested in a "petition", of sorts, to get UWE to at least release some of the tool source code? It wouldn't take much to make a huge difference. Just the COLLADA plugin and model compiler would be huge. That would be enough for us to make an exporter for say, Blender.
However, even if we got the source, updated everything, our main means of distributing out works is still limited to 100MB, so...
I for one, really want/need the ability to modify/create models and animations to do the things I want to do.
So...who's interested in a "petition", of sorts, to get UWE to at least release some of the tool source code? It wouldn't take much to make a huge difference. Just the COLLADA plugin and model compiler would be huge. That would be enough for us to make an exporter for say, Blender.
However, even if we got the source, updated everything, our main means of distributing out works is still limited to 100MB, so...
I for one, really want/need the ability to modify/create models and animations to do the things I want to do.
I'm not sure how much good it will do. I've already asked once before, and I was simply told the exporter was a modified version of the DAE exporter included in 3dsmax. It'd be wonderful to have a Blender exporter, but I just don't see it happening.
SamusDroidColoradoJoin Date: 2013-05-13Member: 185219Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
edited April 2014
<authoring_tool>3dsMax 11 - Feeling ColladaMax v3.05B.</authoring_tool>
In a source DAE file
You may have to manually load the plugin from the plugin manager, not just dropping it into the plugins folder...
@BeigeAlert yeah, what you've explained has been spot on.
You can import models made on most of the modeling programs but you only get the collision information from the main model itself, what that means is that you get just overly complex collision. That will cause problems for ie. skulks. If you happen to have a wall piece with some neat trims and such, skulks will stumble and fall on those things really easily.
You can always work around in the editor by disabling the model collision and making the collision in the geometry or chop up the model into smaller models so you can control the collision with different parts of the model. But I'd prefer the less tedious way of using the proper COLLADA plugin to make the collision I want.
@BeigeAlert yeah, what you've explained has been spot on.
You can import models made on most of the modeling programs but you only get the collision information from the main model itself, what that means is that you get just overly complex collision. That will cause problems for ie. skulks. If you happen to have a wall piece with some neat trims and such, skulks will stumble and fall on those things really easily.
You can always work around in the editor by disabling the model collision and making the collision in the geometry or chop up the model into smaller models so you can control the collision with different parts of the model. But I'd prefer the less tedious way of using the proper COLLADA plugin to make the collision I want.
Let me rephrase and ask :
Is it possible to
-1 export the model geometry From blender ?
-2 export another model that will be the collision model (of course simplified geometrically speaking) From blender ?
You only need 3ds max is yuo want to make animated players etc. If you want to make models for maps, you can do that with any program.
There are many maps filled with custom models, custom models for mapping is really not that hard, other than making the models themselves. pg_dm6 has had custom models in it for a couple of years..
Collisions collisions collisions!! I guess it works just fine if you prop just happens to be ONE, completely convex shape... but really how often is that going to come up?
@BeigeAlert yeah, what you've explained has been spot on.
You can import models made on most of the modeling programs but you only get the collision information from the main model itself, what that means is that you get just overly complex collision. That will cause problems for ie. skulks. If you happen to have a wall piece with some neat trims and such, skulks will stumble and fall on those things really easily.
Couldn't you just create a "cage" of collision geo around your model in the modelling program and give it transparent textures? It would work like collision geometry, and you'd get around the copy/paste issues.
Couldn't you just create a "cage" of collision geo around your model in the modelling program and give it transparent textures? It would work like collision geometry, and you'd get around the copy/paste issues.
It's just tedious. If you change anything which is happening all the time, you have to move, modify, reshape geometry... Load the gun, aim the head, pull the trigger.
All the NS2 maps have many props reused everywhere in different ways. Size, light, assembled with others etc... It is better to have a collision model that follows it.
BeigeAlertTexasJoin Date: 2013-08-08Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
Guys the biggest problem with collision geometry ISN'T getting something to collide, it's getting it to collide properly. If you export the collision mesh from blender, it'll automatically generate a convex hull of that shape, which is usually garbage unless you just happen to have an already convex collision mesh. To visualize if a shape is convex or not, just imaging shrink-wrapping it. Will the shrink wrap cover all areas, or will there be some parts where it's floating above the geometry? For example: take pac man. This shape (circle with a triangle cut out of it) is NOT convex. If you export something like that for a collision mesh, it will generate a mesh that is basically a circle with a scrape on one side where the mouth was. To properly export that kind of shape, you'd need two shapes: one for the top half, the other for the bottom half. Both those shapes are convex and adequately cover the mesh.
McGlaspiewww.team156.comJoin Date: 2010-07-26Member: 73044Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester
Hmm. I'm going to put this on my "things to tinker with" list. Hopefully something will come out of it. Not being able to properly get new models fully function in-game is a big hinderance to NS2 modding endeavours.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
Please @McGlaspie If you can come up with any type of solution which makes it even a little bit easier, the modding community will love you and hail you as a KING!!!*
BeigeAlertTexasJoin Date: 2013-08-08Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
One of the things I was tinkering with for a while was trying to get proper collision export from blender. The best I managed was fixing errors in the dae export from blender (changing things like 1e-9 to 0). But looking through the file format, I couldn't figure out why it would insist on generating a new collision mesh, even though what I had in my model file was nearly identical to a file exported "properly". The only thing I didn't try was spoofing it to say the export was from "max" instead of "blender". For all I know that could be it. I may give that a shot someday soon if I have the time.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
If models could be exported with an accurate collision mesh somehow, I would be one of the happiest people in the world. If someone could also come up with a way to make models occlude like occlusion geometry as well, I'd probably die of Joy before getting to use them!!!
If models could be exported with an accurate collision mesh somehow, I would be one of the happiest people in the world. If someone could also come up with a way to make models occlude like occlusion geometry as well, I'd probably die of Joy before getting to use them!!!
Collision maybe.... occlusion, no. That's something the engine would have to take care of, right?
Comments
Nope! Only options are A) Use blender and be content that you won't get any proper collision geometry for your model, nor any animations, or
*BeigeAlert does not endorse any illegal efforts to *aquire* 3dsmax 2009... even though ALL efforts are illegal unless you own a time machine.
lol yea all those film and video game companies out there are just torrenting it... oh you mean version 9... :P
I supose it is pretty unworthy to make custom maps as the time needed to do things properly is still high. Not to mention the licence issue with 3DSmax. By the time it is finished (with new props) nobody will play the map simply because there won't be many players left.
I thaught devs would have done something about it.
That's why I'm trying to make another community map project. I figure if enough people come together, we can get a really good map made before there's nobody left to play it.
There are many maps filled with custom models, custom models for mapping is really not that hard, other than making the models themselves. pg_dm6 has had custom models in it for a couple of years..
Yea that'll work... but far from ideal.
There was a technology in 3dsmax called "reactor". This was -- if I understand correctly -- a physics library that the UWE-provided exporter script uses to export the collision data. 3dsmax '10 and up use physx if I remember correctly, which yea is a lot closer to what ns2 uses, but the script and model compiler would need to be updated... and we all know that isn't going to happen any time soon... probably never for ns2.
Short answer: yes, it generates different dae files.
Copy + paste + move + rotate + scale? + moveagainbecauseitwasn'tquiterightthefirsttime, for hundreds of props? Best to have a collision mesh.
I think it only need to be recompiled for the proper version, but I am no 3dsmax expert (and 2009 is really easy to find btw, even though it is clearly not perfect).
Well have a go then, let us know what you find.
Yup
However, even if we got the source, updated everything, our main means of distributing out works is still limited to 100MB, so...
I for one, really want/need the ability to modify/create models and animations to do the things I want to do.
I'm not sure how much good it will do. I've already asked once before, and I was simply told the exporter was a modified version of the DAE exporter included in 3dsmax. It'd be wonderful to have a Blender exporter, but I just don't see it happening.
In a source DAE file
You may have to manually load the plugin from the plugin manager, not just dropping it into the plugins folder...
You can import models made on most of the modeling programs but you only get the collision information from the main model itself, what that means is that you get just overly complex collision. That will cause problems for ie. skulks. If you happen to have a wall piece with some neat trims and such, skulks will stumble and fall on those things really easily.
You can always work around in the editor by disabling the model collision and making the collision in the geometry or chop up the model into smaller models so you can control the collision with different parts of the model. But I'd prefer the less tedious way of using the proper COLLADA plugin to make the collision I want.
I've explained this stuff fairly well in my guide
Did read the tuto.
Let me rephrase and ask :
Is it possible to
-1 export the model geometry From blender ?
-2 export another model that will be the collision model (of course simplified geometrically speaking) From blender ?
Then we "mix" with .model_compile file? right?
Couldn't you just create a "cage" of collision geo around your model in the modelling program and give it transparent textures? It would work like collision geometry, and you'd get around the copy/paste issues.
It's just tedious. If you change anything which is happening all the time, you have to move, modify, reshape geometry... Load the gun, aim the head, pull the trigger.
All the NS2 maps have many props reused everywhere in different ways. Size, light, assembled with others etc... It is better to have a collision model that follows it.
Just read White Devil's post for details on it.
Collision maybe.... occlusion, no. That's something the engine would have to take care of, right?