Concede

ChaguiChagui Join Date: 2008-03-01 Member: 63773Members Posts: 26
This is getting ridiculous.
I CAN NEVER PLAY A FULL GAME!!
For me, it takes the magic of this game from happening!

This vote should be used exclusively when there is no other option.
xen32CCTEESoylent_green
«1

Comments

  • xen32xen32 Join Date: 2012-10-18 Member: 162676Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 1,011 Advanced user
    For me, the biggest problem is premature concede, that happens when team loses one battle. But the war still can be won. But people decide to give up.

    1 epic comeback > 100 hours of time saved by conceding


    Games that should have ended by concede (when even I thought so, and I'm not a fan of concede) and they didn't and we won eventually are those epic games that I play for. The most drama is in comeback.

    And I find last stand to be fun as well.
    MiniH0wieSoylent_green
  • RoobubbaRoobubba Who you gonna call? Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11930Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 3,191 Fully active user
    Ouch. @xen32 I couldn't disagree more. Yes comebacks can be fun, but holding out every game wishing for some spectacular coordinated comeback winds me up. I'll try to coordinate a push or two, but I recognise the inevitable defeat earlier than most pubbers, I think. If the guy on 30/2 is telling you that we've lost, we've probably lost :D
    For all your gorge busting needs.
    It is very strange how some1 who spend so much time makeing videos to help mans, can fall and take miror image of dark ages bourgeoisie, outdated set of belifs
    How True.
    skulkgatomeatmachinehalfofaheavenBlainn
  • CyberKunCyberKun Join Date: 2013-02-02 Member: 182733Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 336 Fully active user
    Not going to waste 5-10 minutes on a game that is over. Play 20 games, and that adds up.
    Cyber_kun: Not going to invade again
    Cyber_kun: Well, least not in the area that requires you to run forever
    Lolgorgeous: np i appreciate you wasting 30 minutes of my time anyway

    ~~Dark Souls~~
    halfofaheaven
  • Blarney_StoneBlarney_Stone Join Date: 2013-03-08 Member: 183808Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,037
    So tired of these threads. Yes, comebacks are cool and exciting. They also happen extremely rarely. It's not worth wasting hundreds of hours waiting for a game that has already been concluded to end. Couldn't disagree more with xen32, one epic comeback is not worth hundreds of wasted hours hoping against hope that things will turn around.

    The example that I always fall back on when this thread inevitably comes back every month is chess. Probably 0.1% of all chess matches between experienced players are played to a checkmate, because it simply isn't necessary. Once it becomes clear to both sides who is almost assured to win, it's time for the game to end.

    Also, the whole idea of getting rid of concede goes against the entire idea of democracy... If the majority of your team wants to concede, it's not fair of you to force them all to keep playing just to fulfill your own selfish desires.
    if it keeps on raining the levee's going to break
    BestProfileNameBlainn
  • ChaguiChagui Join Date: 2008-03-01 Member: 63773Members Posts: 26
    I dont want to get rid of concede, it's just that the game doesn't develop because of premature concede!
    There are times were concede may be needed.

    I wish there is a badge that simbolizes people that love playing a game to its full extent (concede haters). This way i would stay in servers with many of these people.
    Soylent_green
  • KungFuJVKungFuJV Join Date: 2003-04-03 Member: 15167Members Posts: 148 Fully active user
    edited March 2014
    Concede has a valuable place in this game.....just like most games, prevention of winning team farming rather than winning.
  • ChaguiChagui Join Date: 2008-03-01 Member: 63773Members Posts: 26
    But lets talk about "premature concede", this is the productive area of discusion. I think there is a big problem with this, preventing me from enjoying a full game.
    xen32Soylent_green
  • d0ped0gd0ped0g Join Date: 2003-05-25 Member: 16679Members Posts: 782 Advanced user
    Chagui wrote: »
    This vote should be used exclusively when there is no other option.

    Often when the other team has enough momentum, the only option is to attempt to pull off some high-risk strategy like a rush. However, this requires coordination and thus is extremely rare for your average losing team in a pub to pull off. From my own personal experience, 99% of the time if you try and do a last resort push, less than half of the team responds.

    For this reason I will generally concede before even suggesting a rush - but would much rather try and win the game. It also allows the other team to strike the winning blow if they counter rush your rush - which is a lot less tedious a way to gain a victory than breaking a turtle in a pub, and a lot more rewarding than winning via surrender.
  • Blarney_StoneBlarney_Stone Join Date: 2013-03-08 Member: 183808Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,037
    @Chagui concede is already prevented for the first ten minutes of the match, what else would you suggest to prevent "premature concedes" from occurring?
    if it keeps on raining the levee's going to break
  • It's Super Effective!It's Super Effective! Join Date: 2012-08-28 Member: 156625Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 518 Fully active user
    edited March 2014
    Honestly, even if you could rework the concede option, people can simply press F4, or disconnect.

    You cannot change the fact that players don't like to lose, it's only human and further more have the agonizing treatment of being eaten by a sarlacc pit; slowly being digested over 1000 years.

    Other games do have systems in place to encourage playing, and/or frown upon abandonment. League of Legends and Guns of Icarus have such a thing like:

    "Thumbs up-ing" your teammates at the end of a round and voting for end-of-round team MVP's for those people to show who stick it out or those who really put in the effort, and to have something to show for this (a "Team Player" score on Hive/Main Menu/In-Game Scores?)

    The other hand could be the negative side of things... if people leave/disconnect but don't rejoin within 5 minutes, they get a Deserter Status and can't join another game for a few minutes (Like LoL, but I don't think this would work for NS2).

    It would take a bit of re-working, but I think the Positive reinforcement choice would both encourage people to fight to their fullest and stick around. It would be a cosmetic symbol that shows THIS GUY can be counted on.

    Perhaps this should be brought to the Dev's attention, it could be worth looking into :)
    Cheers,
    It's Super Effective! | @ISEGaming | Twitch.tv/ISEGaming | Google+ | Steam | Super Effective Gamers Public Steam Group

    - NS2 NA Playtester
    - Creator of: NS2 Tactical Operations, Intel Update and In-Game Tutorials.
  • It's Super Effective!It's Super Effective! Join Date: 2012-08-28 Member: 156625Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 518 Fully active user
    On the topic of the New Commander Badge, other things could be presented?

    Perhaps if someone reaches a high "Team work" score they can receive bronze/silver/gold versions of a Teamwork Badge?

    Let's face it, we all know we love Badges, I binged on Commanding until I got my badge, at least we can now pick out who are best suited to commanding, why not take it further.
    Since there was never a "achievement" system set in NS2, perhaps this could encourage people to play more cooperatively to achieve victory?
    Cheers,
    It's Super Effective! | @ISEGaming | Twitch.tv/ISEGaming | Google+ | Steam | Super Effective Gamers Public Steam Group

    - NS2 NA Playtester
    - Creator of: NS2 Tactical Operations, Intel Update and In-Game Tutorials.
  • MestaritonttuMestaritonttu Join Date: 2004-07-29 Member: 30229Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold Posts: 1,194
    I just like to spend these monthly concede threads thinking about alternatives... ~O):-? Hooooow aboooout.........

    Marines concede:
    Marines no longer spawn. A phasegate appears in a random location on the map. If the remaining marines make it to the phasegate in 1 minute, the game ends with a less glorious alien victory.*

    Aliens concede:
    Aliens no longer spawn. A gorge tunnel appears at a random location on the map, blah blah blah.

    (*maybe something as simple as a text announcing "xxxxxxx has escaped the Kharaa threat!" would suffice for a nice mental treat in this mechanic.)

    Point of all the above would be to give the losing team something fun to do while the winning team would get 1 minute to finish the game in a more satisfying fashion.

    Ya, I'm happy with this one. Off to wait for the next concede thread. :P
    image
  • xen32xen32 Join Date: 2012-10-18 Member: 162676Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 1,011 Advanced user
    edited March 2014
    @Chagui concede is already prevented for the first ten minutes of the match, what else would you suggest to prevent "premature concedes" from occurring?
    Ten minutes is actually too much, in my experience, it should be allowed after 7 minutes. That's for legit concede. And to prevent premature concede at least to some degree, I'd suggest hiding 'playername voted to concede' message from public eye, so it's a decision of every single player, and not an enforced opinion 'hey five people already voted, I want too'.

    And by the way, the things that will really improve concede is all of your base go boom when vote is successful. Just this and I am happy. Two birds with one stone: game ends under normal winning conditions (all base structures down), and other team gets at least some show as a reward.

    Ah, and also, people ragequitting make 'those' matches drag for even longer, since you can't spawn to finish them off. What if auto-balance that prevents you from spawn would be disabled after some time into the game? Say, x1.5 concede time. It's not like anyone is going to switch teams after playing for other team for 15 minutes and securing victory. It's huge problem, when team is not coordinated enough even to concede, sane people start quitting, preventing players on other side from spawning and this makes game that should have ended even longer.
  • RejZoRRejZoR Slovenia Join Date: 2013-09-24 Member: 188450Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 292 Advanced user
    If there was no concede option, people would just leave the server. And you don't want that to happen...
    Reinforced - Shadow Supporter | Retired NS2 Playtester | Babblers Fan Club | Gorge Plushie & Gorge Mommy Plushie Owners Club
  • orbitalshapeorbitalshape gameland Join Date: 2014-02-03 Member: 193754Members Posts: 64
    It is beter to concide 10 times , and get one balanced game, than waste time . I just finish game where all aliens left in 2 min. Alldo one pro player- nolifer will clear server , when u see first score player have more than 5 times score of second best , there is no point in wasting time. Concide and look for starter of this thread rage, and quit server, so we may have fun , Concide is cure , to bad is not limited in less imao :)
  • NammNamm Join Date: 2011-12-08 Member: 137116Members Posts: 412 Fully active user
    edited March 2014
    Have been mentioned before and it would probably be too much effort to get it working, but one can dream...

    Suggestion: Add a "soft" concede that changes the objective; the conceding team can now force a draw (but no longer win). This can be portrayed by the conceding team having to achieve some objective before a timer reaches zero. For instance reach map position X or Y with at least half the team within 1 minute. The map positions are predefined and can be a dropship, an elevator, tram station, gates, auto-placed Gorge tunnel entrance etc and the position is picked somewhat randomly, perhaps based on the teams map presence. Ideally, the result would be that the conceding team indeed loses 9 times out of 10, but there's still that 10th time to keep things interesting - and whatever happens the game is over a minute after the concede vote ends.
    Eternally Gratituded™
    Cannon_FodderAUS
  • It's Super Effective!It's Super Effective! Join Date: 2012-08-28 Member: 156625Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 518 Fully active user
    Given the circumstance of a un-salvageable game, I for one would like to see less votes required, it feels like you need 90%. It's infuriating when it's easier to get a "Random Ready Room" vote to go through, but the remaining 1 or 2 Votes to Concede is often the most difficult to get, especially after you've explained in-game voice and chat on how to do it.

    Perhaps have the Concede vote operate the same way as the other votes, where your teammates simply are prompted to press F1 if they wish to surrender, or F2 continue playing instead of them having to find it buried in the "X" menu.
    Cheers,
    It's Super Effective! | @ISEGaming | Twitch.tv/ISEGaming | Google+ | Steam | Super Effective Gamers Public Steam Group

    - NS2 NA Playtester
    - Creator of: NS2 Tactical Operations, Intel Update and In-Game Tutorials.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Posts: 8,191 admin
    Because its wholly anti climatic.
    #makeWinOrLoseModOfficial
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
  • AmbAmb Join Date: 2012-11-09 Member: 168647Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 317 Fully active user
    edited March 2014
    CyberKun wrote: »
    Not going to waste 5-10 minutes on a game that is over. Play 20 games, and that adds up.

    I wish I could concede at the start of the game, not going to waste time in NS2 at all when this shit game is already over. Play any amount of games in NS2 is a waste of time and they add up. Could have spent that precious time playing games that are actually worth playing (and don't require 4ghz CPUs to get 60 FPS).

  • Cannon_FodderAUSCannon_FodderAUS Brisbane, AU Join Date: 2013-06-23 Member: 185664Members, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 876 Advanced user
    Amb wrote: »
    CyberKun wrote: »
    Not going to waste 5-10 minutes on a game that is over. Play 20 games, and that adds up.

    I wish I could concede at the start of the game, not going to waste time in NS2 at all when this shit game is already over. Play any amount of games in NS2 is a waste of time and they add up. Could have spent that precious time playing games that are actually worth playing (and don't require 4ghz CPUs to get 60 FPS).

    Please don't troll.

    Author of a ePaper manual for NS2, now also a steam guide
    Co-wrote the Marine EXO Suit Protocol
    NordicShellMoDaveodeth
  • MaddokMaddok Seattle, WA Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8049Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Posts: 35
    I like WinOrLose but it's currently in a 'Good enough' state.

    Some polish issues (mostly trolling):
    Smaller teams have a harder time pulling off their victory.
    Being surrendered to is harder on marines then aliens.
    Aliens have no stress over time to win at one minute (DPS difference and travel time).
    Aliens have no worry about being caught without ammo (minor).
    Winning team players can troll their team by killing aliens (on purpose or otherwise).

    Still, it would be an improvement as is.

    Some features:
    Surrendering team cant fight back (till chair/hive is dead, and then all heck breaks loose).

    Time to kill the tech point is reduced per surrendered enemy dispatched. Creates a mini-game where the surrendering team tries to throw their lives in between the other team('s bullets or bites) and the tech point.

    One minute for the winning team to get their elusive satisfaction.
  • Soylent_greenSoylent_green Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11220Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 2,875 Advanced user
    edited May 2014
    @Chagui concede is already prevented for the first ten minutes of the match, what else would you suggest to prevent "premature concedes" from occurring?

    Can't concede if you have 2 or more tech points or control 3 or more res towers.

    I don't get why people are so allergic to losing. If you can't have fun while not stomping on your opponent, go play with bots or something. It's like most people gauge their odds of winning, and if it drops below maybe one in three or so, they vote concede and just loaf around and don't try to help their team. At least F4 took you out of the game, so most people didn't actually F4 unless the game really was over. Concede is not reserved for spawn camps and other circumstances where it might be warranted; it is used early and often.

    Perhaps a quarter of the games where my team was close to conceding (one or two votes from it) we won. Why people really were voting concede was "the opposite team has more icons" or some frivolous bullshit. Not infrequently the game gets into a tug-of-war type stalemate, and the team that wins is chosen by random as the team with fewer people willing to concede.
    zenef
  • RaZDaZRaZDaZ Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167331Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 465 Fully active user
    edited May 2014
    Games in SC2 rarely reach the supreme late game of mass airtoss, skyterran, raven mech or skyzerg. While I would like more games whee I can fully utilize the entire tech tree of each team, it's difficult to argue about conceding considering that in most cases, it is fully appropriate.

    Edit: @Soylent_green Bad idea to put that kind of restriction with tech points. A lot of games I've seen drag on too long when aliens were stuck on 2 hive, unable to expand while marines slowly strangled them. The current system is fine, most games that have a surrender option will always have games where the surrender was premature.
    NS2 ID: RaZDaZ
    Old School AvP2 Vet
  • BestProfileNameBestProfileName Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177320Members Posts: 448 Advanced user
    From my experience the concede function is used far less often than it should be.
  • the_tickthe_tick Netherlands Join Date: 2014-01-20 Member: 193352Members Posts: 97
    I have to disagree with you there, it was fun in ns1, but ns2, it is boring as shit, because ..

    A, the horrible lag you get,
    B, the strain on the server due to the amount of objects in the game. (espcially when marines are turtling
    C, The fact that other people don't wanna play anymore
    D, The neverending story of lvl 3 marines with sg's jp's and gl's where they just keep spamming their shit.

    If the marines refuse to surrender in that occasion, I even turn on friendlyfire so they get raped by their own nades :p
    Owner of the tick's battleground servers
    Cannon_FodderAUSLocklearBlainn
Sign In or Register to comment.