blindJoin Date: 2010-04-17Member: 71437Members, Squad Five Gold
Didn't get quite the time yet to write a summary, sorry for being late - as usal
I think RedDog and Wasabi already covered everything I had on my mind, from thanking everyone involved up to how proud we are of that show (although of course not everything was perfect :P). But let me say this
...
the show ended 46 hours ago and I still got that big smile on my face, watching the VOD(s) and the pictures I made (I needed to do more! FML) and being the happiest nerd alive.
That was the best weekend ever and I can't thank you guys enough for letting me have it - from every donation to everyone helping and mostly Wasabi & RedDog "pulling" me into this, which was my absolute dream. A blast. Fuck it, words can't describe it, I just love you.
The only thing I regret is that I didn't have like 4600 more hours time to talk and party with everyone present in Cologne, all the players, viewers, playtesters, UWE staff and the ESL guys were great and made my stay so enjoyable.
Hello everyone! Back in SF now. I have the whole event on a hard drive, and will start to cut it up into each match tomorrow. Every moment will be uploaded to YouTube.com/unknownworlds.
What a wonderful experience for everyone. It was truly memorable.
I'm going to shine my 2 cents in here. I didn't watch every match just the last 10. The casters did a pretty good job most of the time. I think they should ask for a feature that allows play back so when they miss an engagement it would be alot easier to simply rewind and show it.
I would have liked to see an interview after and during the tournament of the teams who lost and won and why they thought they got a leg up.
Now in regards to the 13-2 marine wins. This goes to show how craptastic NS 2 net code really is. You all know what I'm talking about "dam I put a whole clip into this skulk and he is still up". During these matches I never once saw a skulk 1v2 the marines but multiple times I watched marines 1v3 aliens.
These matches highlight so many game mechanic failures and people are saying I don't see any disconnects, really?
Look at all these matches and how bad the cyst mechanic is. Marines simply ran straight to the aliens natural RT expansions and killed 2 cysts and just camped the aliens as the RT self died. 90% of the time it was just 1 marine.
Aliens, 20 res per RT marines 10 res per RT.
Aliens unbuilt RT's die with in 1 0-0 marine clip. Marine unbuilt RT takes just as long to kill as a built one.
How long does it take a marine to build RT's vs a drifter? The marines can build their first natural RT run to the alien's and kill it before the drifter is even done building it. How many times did that happen? Most of the time marines got the drifter as well 16 res down the gutter in first minute of game.
Cross spawns make this problem even worse cause you know exactly were to camp.
Alien movement is so bad. How many times did you see pro fades run out of energy? Fades energy amount/regen needs rework since they gimped their damage/range/HP.
Seriously I watched a single 0-0 marine 1v3 skulks multiple times. Shows you how bad skulks are. Just parasite and hope you get lucky.
With friendly fire you are far more likely to bite your own team mate then ranged classes covering each other are of shooting each other.
Lerks, Haha only used for spiking, or once shotguns came out umbra. I would like to see some statistics from these matches kills vs res spent.
So much more to cover but I'll wait till this patch they(modders not UWE) have been working on comes out.
Look at all these matches and how bad the cyst mechanic is. Marines simply ran straight to the aliens natural RT expansions and killed 2 cysts and just camped the aliens as the RT self died. 90% of the time it was just 1 marine.
Whether Aliens or Marines, harassing natural RTs is a huge part of the game.
Alien movement is so bad. How many times did you see pro fades run out of energy? Fades energy amount/regen needs rework since they gimped their damage/range/HP.
I don't know why pro fades ran out energy. Perhaps its playing away from home, out of their comfort zone, in front of over 100 spectators and thousands on Twitch, in the biggest event in NS2 history for a large amount of money. I probably wouldn't play the same under those conditions either.
MouseThe Lighter Side of PessimismJoin Date: 2002-03-02Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
edited February 2014
It would have been nice to either have had the event simulcast on the Twitch channels of the casters or have their channels somehow redirect to the UWE Twitch channel. Because it was a community event, I went to RedDog's twitch channel before I even thought to check the UWE one.
Look at all these matches and how bad the cyst mechanic is. Marines simply ran straight to the aliens natural RT expansions and killed 2 cysts and just camped the aliens as the RT self died. 90% of the time it was just 1 marine.
Whether Aliens or Marines, harassing natural RTs is a huge part of the game.
Alien movement is so bad. How many times did you see pro fades run out of energy? Fades energy amount/regen needs rework since they gimped their damage/range/HP.
I don't know why pro fades ran out energy. Perhaps its playing away from home, out of their comfort zone, in front of over 100 spectators and thousands on Twitch, in the biggest event in NS2 history for a large amount of money. I probably wouldn't play the same under those conditions either.
It is because their energy pool is really bad.
Please know what you are talking about before telling some one they are wrong.
I suspect most people were having trouble with fades simply because of the increased pressure being put on them - when you have practiced around people landing x% of their shots, and suddenly that increases by a substantial amount, your going to need to give your fade a little more 'gas'..
Aliens do need work to better match the skill curve that marines have, but from the tone and direction of your post I don't think that was what you were trying to indicate, nor do you point out any of the major flaws with aliens currently. There are some alien movement mechanics which can improve, but its more about improving the skill vs reward curve, not the 'movement' in general... Unless you want pub/anything other than top level gameplay to become even more alien biased...
Please know what you are talking about before telling some one they are wrong.
As for this, I will simply reply: LOL
When trolls smell happiness, they want to end it. Oh well. Good job with the WC guys but I'm done with this topic. Congrats on putting on a great show RedDog, Wasabi, Blind, Hugh, Flayra, ISE, etc.
Well, it's not fair to discount something just because it's negative. For example, I think that Fana's negative posts surrounding the NS2WC a couple months back led to a lot of bad rules being fixed and made the event more of a success. I think these forums are sometimes too quick to disregard what is being said just because it doesn't paint UWE in a rosy light
That being said, in this case @Lastdon has no idea what he is talking about so I can't really defend him
Metabolise is a boring-ass mechanic that'll look dumb in a comp setting.
Give us something that fills the role of metabolise but requires a bit more thought and skill to use- ohwait, vortexing near the fight and warping back once you've healed at a hive does exactly that.
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
Now in regards to the 13-2 marine wins. This goes to show how craptastic NS 2 net code really is. You all know what I'm talking about "dam I put a whole clip into this skulk and he is still up". During these matches I never once saw a skulk 1v2 the marines but multiple times I watched marines 1v3 aliens.
Yea, this was a bit surprising. After all, with 100ms interp, the theoretical difference between LAN and standard intra-EU latency should only be 150-200 ms vs 100ms (+ all the other stuff).
I wonder if some of it is caused by line quality - perhaps NS2 is much more perceptive to 'jitter' which is mostly non-existent on LAN but is prevalent regardless of how good your internet is, to an extent.
I suspect to find the true answer one might need to dive quite deep into NS2's netcode, and there are only a few that can do that (plz help matso ).
I think the alien vs marine winrate was more determined by crappy alien play. The 0 ping was definitely noticeable when playing marines - moreso than aliens. The game just felt smoother.
A few of the alien games could have gone much different if one or two engagements had gone differently. With great shooters and 0 ping, aliens cannot comeback if they make a mistake.
I used to play NS1 in the Aus/NZ competitive scene years ago..I've only just recently started playing NS2. From watching the NS2WC games, I feel like cysts are one of the key factors in locking down aliens. It's so simple to destroy cysts and deny any sort of expanding capabilities.
Also in the final match of Legendary Snails vs Titus, the Snails knew that the only chance they had to win was base rush..if the game had gone on any longer it was a guaranteed marine win. The fact this had to be done definitely says a lot about the way the game is balanced. Even though I do agree latency is a factor, it doesn't seem the defining thing to me.
If the only reason games are won as aliens bar a couple of exceptions is latency, that's not balance.
Now in regards to the 13-2 marine wins. This goes to show how craptastic NS 2 net code really is. You all know what I'm talking about "dam I put a whole clip into this skulk and he is still up". During these matches I never once saw a skulk 1v2 the marines but multiple times I watched marines 1v3 aliens.
Yea, this was a bit surprising. After all, with 100ms interp, the theoretical difference between LAN and standard intra-EU latency should only be 150-200 ms vs 100ms (+ all the other stuff).
Weird.
The funny thing is anyone over 150 ping playing aliens always has a leg up.
Every time you defend your code it is always the same excuse. You bring up the basic 101 netcode/interp crap everyone understands that. There is way more to the code then that, it is the packaging/ unpacking of the data sets and what you are using to do that. The time it takes to do it. are the packages over lapping is there to much data for either side client or server. There is a disconnect there some where you just chose to defend subpar code.
Comments
i thought it would have been the spain kind of humor. Be careful of spains
I think RedDog and Wasabi already covered everything I had on my mind, from thanking everyone involved up to how proud we are of that show (although of course not everything was perfect :P). But let me say this
...
the show ended 46 hours ago and I still got that big smile on my face, watching the VOD(s) and the pictures I made (I needed to do more! FML) and being the happiest nerd alive.
That was the best weekend ever and I can't thank you guys enough for letting me have it - from every donation to everyone helping and mostly Wasabi & RedDog "pulling" me into this, which was my absolute dream. A blast. Fuck it, words can't describe it, I just love you.
The only thing I regret is that I didn't have like 4600 more hours time to talk and party with everyone present in Cologne, all the players, viewers, playtesters, UWE staff and the ESL guys were great and made my stay so enjoyable.
NS2 Community: making dreams come true.
Incredible luck
Edit: LOL all the Euros are disagreeing
Touché
What a wonderful experience for everyone. It was truly memorable.
I would have liked to see an interview after and during the tournament of the teams who lost and won and why they thought they got a leg up.
Now in regards to the 13-2 marine wins. This goes to show how craptastic NS 2 net code really is. You all know what I'm talking about "dam I put a whole clip into this skulk and he is still up". During these matches I never once saw a skulk 1v2 the marines but multiple times I watched marines 1v3 aliens.
These matches highlight so many game mechanic failures and people are saying I don't see any disconnects, really?
Look at all these matches and how bad the cyst mechanic is. Marines simply ran straight to the aliens natural RT expansions and killed 2 cysts and just camped the aliens as the RT self died. 90% of the time it was just 1 marine.
Aliens, 20 res per RT marines 10 res per RT.
Aliens unbuilt RT's die with in 1 0-0 marine clip. Marine unbuilt RT takes just as long to kill as a built one.
How long does it take a marine to build RT's vs a drifter? The marines can build their first natural RT run to the alien's and kill it before the drifter is even done building it. How many times did that happen? Most of the time marines got the drifter as well 16 res down the gutter in first minute of game.
Cross spawns make this problem even worse cause you know exactly were to camp.
Alien movement is so bad. How many times did you see pro fades run out of energy? Fades energy amount/regen needs rework since they gimped their damage/range/HP.
Seriously I watched a single 0-0 marine 1v3 skulks multiple times. Shows you how bad skulks are. Just parasite and hope you get lucky.
With friendly fire you are far more likely to bite your own team mate then ranged classes covering each other are of shooting each other.
Lerks, Haha only used for spiking, or once shotguns came out umbra. I would like to see some statistics from these matches kills vs res spent.
So much more to cover but I'll wait till this patch they(modders not UWE) have been working on comes out.
......Well, there is always one, right? ;-)
Whether Aliens or Marines, harassing natural RTs is a huge part of the game.
Wrong. Aliens RTs cost 8 tres. Marine RTs cost 10 tres.
Again, it's part of the strategy.
I don't know why pro fades ran out energy. Perhaps its playing away from home, out of their comfort zone, in front of over 100 spectators and thousands on Twitch, in the biggest event in NS2 history for a large amount of money. I probably wouldn't play the same under those conditions either.
No you are wrong. 8 res for the RT 4 res for the cyst. Either 8 res for drifter or 10 res for a gorge.
Once again you don't get the point.
It is because their energy pool is really bad.
Please know what you are talking about before telling some one they are wrong.
Aliens do need work to better match the skill curve that marines have, but from the tone and direction of your post I don't think that was what you were trying to indicate, nor do you point out any of the major flaws with aliens currently. There are some alien movement mechanics which can improve, but its more about improving the skill vs reward curve, not the 'movement' in general... Unless you want pub/anything other than top level gameplay to become even more alien biased...
you are vastly overstating any strategic imbalance or "mechanics failure". Online, the game is actually imbalanced towards aliens right now.
The marine ties are simply a product of not having lag. There is no reasonable way to prevent this in a ranged vs melee game.
When trolls smell happiness, they want to end it. Oh well. Good job with the WC guys but I'm done with this topic. Congrats on putting on a great show RedDog, Wasabi, Blind, Hugh, Flayra, ISE, etc.
Well, it's not fair to discount something just because it's negative. For example, I think that Fana's negative posts surrounding the NS2WC a couple months back led to a lot of bad rules being fixed and made the event more of a success. I think these forums are sometimes too quick to disregard what is being said just because it doesn't paint UWE in a rosy light
That being said, in this case @Lastdon has no idea what he is talking about so I can't really defend him
I didn't discount. I was just referencing the old quote of "You can't please everyone".
I do feel however the event was a massive success. Great job by Wasabi, RedDog, Blind, and all the UWE and ESL crew.
Give us something that fills the role of metabolise but requires a bit more thought and skill to use- ohwait, vortexing near the fight and warping back once you've healed at a hive does exactly that.
Yea, this was a bit surprising. After all, with 100ms interp, the theoretical difference between LAN and standard intra-EU latency should only be 150-200 ms vs 100ms (+ all the other stuff).
Weird.
I suspect to find the true answer one might need to dive quite deep into NS2's netcode, and there are only a few that can do that (plz help matso
A few of the alien games could have gone much different if one or two engagements had gone differently. With great shooters and 0 ping, aliens cannot comeback if they make a mistake.
Also in the final match of Legendary Snails vs Titus, the Snails knew that the only chance they had to win was base rush..if the game had gone on any longer it was a guaranteed marine win. The fact this had to be done definitely says a lot about the way the game is balanced. Even though I do agree latency is a factor, it doesn't seem the defining thing to me.
If the only reason games are won as aliens bar a couple of exceptions is latency, that's not balance.
It was fun to watch the WC though
The funny thing is anyone over 150 ping playing aliens always has a leg up.
Every time you defend your code it is always the same excuse. You bring up the basic 101 netcode/interp crap everyone understands that. There is way more to the code then that, it is the packaging/ unpacking of the data sets and what you are using to do that. The time it takes to do it. are the packages over lapping is there to much data for either side client or server. There is a disconnect there some where you just chose to defend subpar code.