No way in hell do I have the time or energy to read/and or reply to any of these comments whatsoever. But the same thing happened yesterday. Three games played... all three led to concede.
Edit: Two rounds spent on the tacticalgamer server on the map "Biodome". This server has some sort of plugin where in order to win, the opposing team must kill the hive/chair within a 60 second countdown timer. The aliens couldn't leave spawn (Atomosphere) without the resource towers (Agri, Filtration) being harassed. The marines had a base at platform and not even two lerks with a gorge biling could do anything about it. The aliens voted to concede and proceeded to die within 60 seconds as per the plugin restricted to happen during such a circumstance.
And the round I wasn't expecting to concede was the round I was commanding on biodome as well, but on a different server this time. We spawned in platform and quickly tookover filtration, atmosphere, agri labs. While the marines took over hydro and constantly harassed agri labs. Leading for the aliens to takeover Falls. With a sucesful hive drop and spur/crag upgrades, the aliens managed to gorge celerity a stealth tunnel into hydo and I proceeded to echo a shade, whip, resource tower. The team also provided backup as skulks. Next thing I know the screen says "ALIENS win" and I proceeded to enter the ready room confused and saying "What happened? you marines were doing well"... on the mic.
But we had no third hive. No leap. We were still vulnerable to attack. Our communication on the mic was confusing. Our resource towers were wide open. Platform was wide open. Falls was wide open. Filtration was wide open. We had just barely cleared the phase gate in agri labs and the game was just getting started!!! I wanted to ask my team about dropping a third hive in falls.. but the game was just over suddenly without any feelings of satisfaction whatsoever. And all it took was focus on one tiny area of the map rather than "Territory control and resource maintenance".
Is my point getting through? :S I just don't have the urge to play or give it my best when this happens. I don't want to concede. But I don't want to drag on a tie. I just want to go on the microphone and say "Here's what we got guys, what can we do about it?" I don't want to build two armories in base or a robotics factory or beacon a game that's over if the team can't leave their base and defend the two resource towers near base. But I also don't want to convince a team to give up on trying with whatever the options are in the chaos that is re-spawning and dying 50 times over.
No way in hell do I have the time or energy to read/and or reply to any of these comments whatsoever. But the same thing happened yesterday. Three games played... all three led to concede.
Hi, I made this thread to discuss something that matters to me, but I don't actually want to engage in the discussion as it appears that no-one agrees with me. Maybe I should... concede?
Sometimes it's just one person who trumpets concede too early and that makes many other players give up hope. Some people just aren't prepared to play unless they have the advantage. It's a social problem, not a technical problem (and @OscarTheCouch definitely not a server problem, wtf?)
Damn shame, when I made a thread on this topic (psychological problem with concede, one votes and many follow seeing it), I got like 20 dislikes
Sometimes it's just one person who trumpets concede too early and that makes many other players give up hope. Some people just aren't prepared to play unless they have the advantage. It's a social problem, not a technical problem (and @OscarTheCouch definitely not a server problem, wtf?)
Just as annoying is when 80% of the necessary people have conceded but the remainder won't. At that point it doesn't matter if you think there's still a chance to win - your team has stopped trying.
If one person is trumpeting concede, and you don't agree, you should be telling the rest of the team that instead of conceding now we should try this or that first, then we will concede if everything fails.
Alternatively, if there is small percentage that won't concede to a lost game, ask them for what their idea for winning the game is, and try what they suggest because if they don't have any ideas then they obviously agree we have already lost.
If, in either case you can't have enough communication from your team for this tactic to work, then as you said it's a social problem, and as OscarTheCouch said, find another server, because at that point you may as well be playing combat.
Sometimes it's just one person who trumpets concede too early and that makes many other players give up hope. Some people just aren't prepared to play unless they have the advantage. It's a social problem, not a technical problem (and @OscarTheCouch definitely not a server problem, wtf?)
Just as annoying is when 80% of the necessary people have conceded but the remainder won't. At that point it doesn't matter if you think there's still a chance to win - your team has stopped trying.
Hope? This is a video game. It lasts 10 minutes if people are conceeding. There is no morale factor, hope doesn't matter. As yoda said do or do not.
I prefer the enemy team conceding over leaving. Because many "comebacks" are often achieved by the annoying auto-balance system that is in place.
That system tends to hurt marines a lot more than it does for aliens. Example: You are making a push far into enemy territory, set up a forward PG with two guys while the rest of your team is busy elsewhere. In the next room you get swarmed by 2-3 Skulks. Under normal circumstances would you be able to respawn in time with a teammate to phase back in time and fend them off. But if you get caught off guard, those Skulks are free to take down the PG and the forward base before anyone else in your team can react. You just lost so much map control because 1-2 enemy players decided to F4... seems fair.
What annoys me is when people don't see that the game is lost already. Like as aliens when you've lost your two first harvesters, have Marine phase gates outside your hive and no upgrades, while the marines are on w2 a2 shotguns.
Or as Marine you spent the entire game on 2 extractors while the aliens had 6, you can't kill the lerks and fades and you know there will be 4 oni any second now.
Sure, try a base rush, but please learn when more experienced players with more kills than the rest of you combined tell you that it's over, it's over.
It's annoying when your team won't concede because "never give up, never surrender!". But what I hate is when they do the same thing but won't even actively try to win with something like a base rush or a sneaky phase. Instead they just do what they've done for the rest of the round or try to turtle as long as possible, making the game last even longer than it would if they tried for some crazy last ditch strategy.
with platform and falls marines would be hard pressed to keep canopy and seeding.
Marines with 2/4 extractors easily contested.
aliens with 1/5 harvesters being harassed.
Marines lose 1/2 bases leaving them with perhaps the easiest base to turtle in, most likely the hardest to push out from late game.
aliens gain control of a possible 4th base.
How exactly were the marines doing well?
Honestly how long would it have taken you to get leap/third hive up at that point? 1-2 minutes?
In my experience, you get both: players conceding at the smallest sign of trouble, and teams failing to concede when the round is obviously lost. The latter does not annoy me so much, as it's simply a matter of learning. But the "oh NO we lost our third hive, let's concede" faction drives me nuts.
Like someone already wrote above... even when things look bleak, team up and try something bold. Most of the time, you'll go down in flames, but the times when you catch the enemy off-guard and get a comeback are just awesome. But x->concede is more appealing to some, it seems...
Once again, it's similar to chess. Novice players keep playing even after blundering a rook, because what do you know, five moves after, the opponent may blunder a queen. However, if you play against a decent player, you can resign after losing a bishop or a knight without compensation, because as they say, "the rest is just matter of technique". You stand practically no chance, because he will simplify and win the endgame with certainty.
In NS2, when you see one side quickly losing map control to 2 or three extractors, consistently losing the encounters, you know the game is pointless. Yes, novices can blunder and the game can be thrown out of balance, but the more experienced the players are, the less they lose their high life forms or take unnecessary risk. And when you yourself become experienced enough, you will be less inclined to lose time in pointless matches.
I can still have fun while losing, and annoying the "OMG! concede!!!!!!111" people by completely ignoring them has its charms as well. Remove concede, remove the ridiculous autobalance and just let them F4 if they're so set on ending the round.
On the marine side, I'm a fan of the "recycle IPs, go out guns blazing" type of concede. Conceding wouldn't be so hard for noobs to swallow if the conclusion wasn't so damn uninteresting.
I just hate when aliens sit on 3 RTs for most of the game and the team tries to concede before or just as fades pop. 3 RTs is plenty for aliens. Just sit on 3 at a minimum and harass the marines' res like crazy. let the fades and oni do the clearing and heavy work.
The thing is, allot of the concedes could be directly attributed to unbalanced teams. I'm hoping that with the new force team balance that matches will be more balanced, resulting in allot more fun gameplay.
While I do find that players concede way too easily, removing the concede option isn't the right way to fix it. People would just start to f4.
At least you wouldn't have to ask for an hour to concede (when nothing can be done).
Most of the time you have to concede because the team isn't really good, but also the team just don't understand English (which is often used). The worst are the "no sound guys".
And, many noobs don't know how to concede. I've seen countless attempts to end a done deal, and the vote only passes once someone has explained how to go about voting yes/no :P
Usually, when someone is trying to get a concede, the first two messages are in my experience
"press x
vote concede"
It's what I say, too.
I usually say hold x and vote to concede. pressing is ambiguous.
While I do find that players concede way too easily, removing the concede option isn't the right way to fix it. People would just start to f4.
At least you wouldn't have to ask for an hour to concede (when nothing can be done).
Most of the time you have to concede because the team isn't really good, but also the team just don't understand English (which is often used). The worst are the "no sound guys".
And, many noobs don't know how to concede. I've seen countless attempts to end a done deal, and the vote only passes once someone has explained how to go about voting yes/no :P
Usually, when someone is trying to get a concede, the first two messages are in my experience
"press x
vote concede"
It's what I say, too.
I usually say hold x and vote to concede. pressing is ambiguous.
thats true. on the other hand, if you press it only shortly, there /will/ appear a comm rose for a fraction of a second, so the next natural reaction is usual to hold it....
While I do find that players concede way too easily, removing the concede option isn't the right way to fix it. People would just start to f4.
At least you wouldn't have to ask for an hour to concede (when nothing can be done).
Most of the time you have to concede because the team isn't really good, but also the team just don't understand English (which is often used). The worst are the "no sound guys".
And, many noobs don't know how to concede. I've seen countless attempts to end a done deal, and the vote only passes once someone has explained how to go about voting yes/no :P
Usually, when someone is trying to get a concede, the first two messages are in my experience
"press x
vote concede"
It's what I say, too.
I usually say hold x and vote to concede. pressing is ambiguous.
thats true. on the other hand, if you press it only shortly, there /will/ appear a comm rose for a fraction of a second, so the next natural reaction is usual to hold it....
too much credit given on insufficient evidence. shouldn't have to tell people not to be floor skulks more than once too...
While I do find that players concede way too easily, removing the concede option isn't the right way to fix it. People would just start to f4.
At least you wouldn't have to ask for an hour to concede (when nothing can be done).
Most of the time you have to concede because the team isn't really good, but also the team just don't understand English (which is often used). The worst are the "no sound guys".
And, many noobs don't know how to concede. I've seen countless attempts to end a done deal, and the vote only passes once someone has explained how to go about voting yes/no :P
Usually, when someone is trying to get a concede, the first two messages are in my experience
"press x
vote concede"
It's what I say, too.
I usually say hold x and vote to concede. pressing is ambiguous.
thats true. on the other hand, if you press it only shortly, there /will/ appear a comm rose for a fraction of a second, so the next natural reaction is usual to hold it....
I don't know... I used to say "Press X to vote concede" and went no where. Saying "hold X" to vote concede works better.
The thing is, allot of the concedes could be directly attributed to unbalanced teams. I'm hoping that with the new force team balance that matches will be more balanced, resulting in allot more fun gameplay.
Dunno if you've tried it yet, but it's also highly susceptible to abuse. The Shine mod random shuffle disallows persons to switch teams after a successful vote, however if people rage, nobody can then switch teams to balance back. In the new vanilla force random, players can f4 and choose team again.
Anyways, I always vote concede if it's clearly a waste of time to continue. I have a life (kinda) and so do a lot of other people who'd rather not drag out an inevitable loss. I do however HATE when the commander foresees a loss and hops out of chair/hive, refuses to get back in, blames all players, votes concede, and turns a chance at a possible win into a definite loss. Those are inexcusable!
this is what we should do with concedes. I got this idea from a mod, where the losing team can't attack...
Aliens Concede
All marine have the option to go Split Exo(Rail Gun, Gattling gun).
All Aliens and Alien structures are shown on mini map and marines are granted the Aura Ability.
Exos with FlameThrower becomes availible
Marines have all upgrades availble.
Jetpack Fuel is unlimted.
Marines Concede
All aliens lifeforms and upgrades are free
All Marines and Marine structures are shown on mini map and marines are granted the Aura Ability.
Aliens energy pool in unlimited
Unlimted leaps
Onos can hover a certain distance off the ground.(similar to jetpack mechanics)
Gorges gained the ability to fly similar to lerks.
Gorge hydra limit is changed to 8
Whips dont require infestation to be planted.
Losing team can't attack
Plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz someone make these changes.....
Well, since posting this I have received alot less rounds of concede. I don't know what it was but I credit it to this song I've written to listen. Call me cheesy if ya want, but it's a song I wrote which better portrays the emotion of which I am attempting to convey.
It's simple, really.
The First phase of the song: the challenge
the second phase of the song: the strategy
the third phase of the song: Adapting
Listen to it on backround on audio as loop and you're guaranteed to be more confident while talking on the microphone! (That is until some chap talks louder than the song) & the song is free to download via soundcloud.https://soundcloud.com/kyle-abent/the-human-flaw-of-concede
this is what we should do with concedes. I got this idea from a mod, where the losing team can't attack...
Aliens Concede
All marine have the option to go Split Exo(Rail Gun, Gattling gun).
All Aliens and Alien structures are shown on mini map and marines are granted the Aura Ability.
Exos with FlameThrower becomes availible
Marines have all upgrades availble.
Jetpack Fuel is unlimted.
Marines Concede
All aliens lifeforms and upgrades are free
All Marines and Marine structures are shown on mini map and marines are granted the Aura Ability.
Aliens energy pool in unlimited
Unlimted leaps
Onos can hover a certain distance off the ground.(similar to jetpack mechanics)
Gorges gained the ability to fly similar to lerks.
Gorge hydra limit is changed to 8
Whips dont require infestation to be planted.
Losing team can't attack
Plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz someone make these changes.....
Feels a little over complex. I like how Tactical Gamer does it right now, but if you wanted it to be more ostentatious how about this:
Aliens Concede:
All Marines not in Exo's get Jetpacks w/ Unlimited Fuel
A3/W3 unlocked if not already
Aliens stop re-spawning and show up on the mini-map
Loose evolved upgrades (cara, cele... etc)
Marines Concede:
All Aliens get constant mucus/enzyme buff
Option to immediately (or forced) evolve to Onos
Spawn as Onos
Marines stop spawning and show up on Minimap
Loose Jetpacks
Or what about:
Honestly I think it would be really fun as an alternative to just going into a Kill-em-all concede mode too, where hives/Comm chairs are removed, and conceding team stops re-spawning and shows up on the mini-map. And then as your team dwindles you should get point multipliers based on the number of remaining players (x1.5 for 5 players left, x2 for 4 etc). So last player standing can rack up a bunch of points if they get any kills.
Comments
Edit: Two rounds spent on the tacticalgamer server on the map "Biodome". This server has some sort of plugin where in order to win, the opposing team must kill the hive/chair within a 60 second countdown timer. The aliens couldn't leave spawn (Atomosphere) without the resource towers (Agri, Filtration) being harassed. The marines had a base at platform and not even two lerks with a gorge biling could do anything about it. The aliens voted to concede and proceeded to die within 60 seconds as per the plugin restricted to happen during such a circumstance.
And the round I wasn't expecting to concede was the round I was commanding on biodome as well, but on a different server this time. We spawned in platform and quickly tookover filtration, atmosphere, agri labs. While the marines took over hydro and constantly harassed agri labs. Leading for the aliens to takeover Falls. With a sucesful hive drop and spur/crag upgrades, the aliens managed to gorge celerity a stealth tunnel into hydo and I proceeded to echo a shade, whip, resource tower. The team also provided backup as skulks. Next thing I know the screen says "ALIENS win" and I proceeded to enter the ready room confused and saying "What happened? you marines were doing well"... on the mic.
But we had no third hive. No leap. We were still vulnerable to attack. Our communication on the mic was confusing. Our resource towers were wide open. Platform was wide open. Falls was wide open. Filtration was wide open. We had just barely cleared the phase gate in agri labs and the game was just getting started!!! I wanted to ask my team about dropping a third hive in falls.. but the game was just over suddenly without any feelings of satisfaction whatsoever. And all it took was focus on one tiny area of the map rather than "Territory control and resource maintenance".
Is my point getting through? :S I just don't have the urge to play or give it my best when this happens. I don't want to concede. But I don't want to drag on a tie. I just want to go on the microphone and say "Here's what we got guys, what can we do about it?" I don't want to build two armories in base or a robotics factory or beacon a game that's over if the team can't leave their base and defend the two resource towers near base. But I also don't want to convince a team to give up on trying with whatever the options are in the chaos that is re-spawning and dying 50 times over.
Hi, I made this thread to discuss something that matters to me, but I don't actually want to engage in the discussion as it appears that no-one agrees with me. Maybe I should... concede?
Damn shame, when I made a thread on this topic (psychological problem with concede, one votes and many follow seeing it), I got like 20 dislikes
If one person is trumpeting concede, and you don't agree, you should be telling the rest of the team that instead of conceding now we should try this or that first, then we will concede if everything fails.
Alternatively, if there is small percentage that won't concede to a lost game, ask them for what their idea for winning the game is, and try what they suggest because if they don't have any ideas then they obviously agree we have already lost.
If, in either case you can't have enough communication from your team for this tactic to work, then as you said it's a social problem, and as OscarTheCouch said, find another server, because at that point you may as well be playing combat.
Hope? This is a video game. It lasts 10 minutes if people are conceeding. There is no morale factor, hope doesn't matter. As yoda said do or do not.
That system tends to hurt marines a lot more than it does for aliens. Example: You are making a push far into enemy territory, set up a forward PG with two guys while the rest of your team is busy elsewhere. In the next room you get swarmed by 2-3 Skulks. Under normal circumstances would you be able to respawn in time with a teammate to phase back in time and fend them off. But if you get caught off guard, those Skulks are free to take down the PG and the forward base before anyone else in your team can react. You just lost so much map control because 1-2 enemy players decided to F4... seems fair.
It's annoying when your team won't concede because "never give up, never surrender!". But what I hate is when they do the same thing but won't even actively try to win with something like a base rush or a sneaky phase. Instead they just do what they've done for the rest of the round or try to turtle as long as possible, making the game last even longer than it would if they tried for some crazy last ditch strategy.
First sign of cancer, you go see your doctor.
Maybe if the round you were playing wasn't so cancer, there would be less conceding. Food for thought
with platform and falls marines would be hard pressed to keep canopy and seeding.
Marines with 2/4 extractors easily contested.
aliens with 1/5 harvesters being harassed.
Marines lose 1/2 bases leaving them with perhaps the easiest base to turtle in, most likely the hardest to push out from late game.
aliens gain control of a possible 4th base.
How exactly were the marines doing well?
Honestly how long would it have taken you to get leap/third hive up at that point? 1-2 minutes?
Like someone already wrote above... even when things look bleak, team up and try something bold. Most of the time, you'll go down in flames, but the times when you catch the enemy off-guard and get a comeback are just awesome. But x->concede is more appealing to some, it seems...
In NS2, when you see one side quickly losing map control to 2 or three extractors, consistently losing the encounters, you know the game is pointless. Yes, novices can blunder and the game can be thrown out of balance, but the more experienced the players are, the less they lose their high life forms or take unnecessary risk. And when you yourself become experienced enough, you will be less inclined to lose time in pointless matches.
Also, Tactical Gamer server's concede function FTW (wish it replaced the default concede mechanic)
I usually say hold x and vote to concede. pressing is ambiguous.
thats true. on the other hand, if you press it only shortly, there /will/ appear a comm rose for a fraction of a second, so the next natural reaction is usual to hold it....
too much credit given on insufficient evidence. shouldn't have to tell people not to be floor skulks more than once too...
Dunno if you've tried it yet, but it's also highly susceptible to abuse. The Shine mod random shuffle disallows persons to switch teams after a successful vote, however if people rage, nobody can then switch teams to balance back. In the new vanilla force random, players can f4 and choose team again.
Anyways, I always vote concede if it's clearly a waste of time to continue. I have a life (kinda) and so do a lot of other people who'd rather not drag out an inevitable loss. I do however HATE when the commander foresees a loss and hops out of chair/hive, refuses to get back in, blames all players, votes concede, and turns a chance at a possible win into a definite loss. Those are inexcusable!
Aliens Concede
All marine have the option to go Split Exo(Rail Gun, Gattling gun).
All Aliens and Alien structures are shown on mini map and marines are granted the Aura Ability.
Exos with FlameThrower becomes availible
Marines have all upgrades availble.
Jetpack Fuel is unlimted.
Marines Concede
All aliens lifeforms and upgrades are free
All Marines and Marine structures are shown on mini map and marines are granted the Aura Ability.
Aliens energy pool in unlimited
Unlimted leaps
Onos can hover a certain distance off the ground.(similar to jetpack mechanics)
Gorges gained the ability to fly similar to lerks.
Gorge hydra limit is changed to 8
Whips dont require infestation to be planted.
Losing team can't attack
Plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz someone make these changes.....
Well, since posting this I have received alot less rounds of concede. I don't know what it was but I credit it to this song I've written to listen. Call me cheesy if ya want, but it's a song I wrote which better portrays the emotion of which I am attempting to convey.
It's simple, really.
The First phase of the song: the challenge
the second phase of the song: the strategy
the third phase of the song: Adapting
Listen to it on backround on audio as loop and you're guaranteed to be more confident while talking on the microphone! (That is until some chap talks louder than the song) & the song is free to download via soundcloud.https://soundcloud.com/kyle-abent/the-human-flaw-of-concede
One darwin skulk is enough to drive me crazy. A whole server of them would make my ears bleed.
Agreed. I love the simplicity of it, yet it fulfills most of the desires of those who dislike concede in its current form.
Feels a little over complex. I like how Tactical Gamer does it right now, but if you wanted it to be more ostentatious how about this:
Aliens Concede:
All Marines not in Exo's get Jetpacks w/ Unlimited Fuel
A3/W3 unlocked if not already
Aliens stop re-spawning and show up on the mini-map
Loose evolved upgrades (cara, cele... etc)
Marines Concede:
All Aliens get constant mucus/enzyme buff
Option to immediately (or forced) evolve to Onos
Spawn as Onos
Marines stop spawning and show up on Minimap
Loose Jetpacks
Or what about:
Honestly I think it would be really fun as an alternative to just going into a Kill-em-all concede mode too, where hives/Comm chairs are removed, and conceding team stops re-spawning and shows up on the mini-map. And then as your team dwindles you should get point multipliers based on the number of remaining players (x1.5 for 5 players left, x2 for 4 etc). So last player standing can rack up a bunch of points if they get any kills.