First signs of loss; concede

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Comments

  • KKyleKKyle Michigan Join Date: 2005-07-01 Member: 55067Members
    edited February 2014
    No way in hell do I have the time or energy to read/and or reply to any of these comments whatsoever. But the same thing happened yesterday. Three games played... all three led to concede.


    Edit: Two rounds spent on the tacticalgamer server on the map "Biodome". This server has some sort of plugin where in order to win, the opposing team must kill the hive/chair within a 60 second countdown timer. The aliens couldn't leave spawn (Atomosphere) without the resource towers (Agri, Filtration) being harassed. The marines had a base at platform and not even two lerks with a gorge biling could do anything about it. The aliens voted to concede and proceeded to die within 60 seconds as per the plugin restricted to happen during such a circumstance.

    And the round I wasn't expecting to concede was the round I was commanding on biodome as well, but on a different server this time. We spawned in platform and quickly tookover filtration, atmosphere, agri labs. While the marines took over hydro and constantly harassed agri labs. Leading for the aliens to takeover Falls. With a sucesful hive drop and spur/crag upgrades, the aliens managed to gorge celerity a stealth tunnel into hydo and I proceeded to echo a shade, whip, resource tower. The team also provided backup as skulks. Next thing I know the screen says "ALIENS win" and I proceeded to enter the ready room confused and saying "What happened? you marines were doing well"... on the mic.

    But we had no third hive. No leap. We were still vulnerable to attack. Our communication on the mic was confusing. Our resource towers were wide open. Platform was wide open. Falls was wide open. Filtration was wide open. We had just barely cleared the phase gate in agri labs and the game was just getting started!!! I wanted to ask my team about dropping a third hive in falls.. but the game was just over suddenly without any feelings of satisfaction whatsoever. And all it took was focus on one tiny area of the map rather than "Territory control and resource maintenance".

    Is my point getting through? :S I just don't have the urge to play or give it my best when this happens. I don't want to concede. But I don't want to drag on a tie. I just want to go on the microphone and say "Here's what we got guys, what can we do about it?" I don't want to build two armories in base or a robotics factory or beacon a game that's over if the team can't leave their base and defend the two resource towers near base. But I also don't want to convince a team to give up on trying with whatever the options are in the chaos that is re-spawning and dying 50 times over.
  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    Yes, but you have to realise conceding is valid when the game is lost. It is just some people know when that is, and others don't...
  • xen32xen32 Join Date: 2012-10-18 Member: 162676Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    Khyron wrote: »
    Sometimes it's just one person who trumpets concede too early and that makes many other players give up hope. Some people just aren't prepared to play unless they have the advantage. It's a social problem, not a technical problem (and @OscarTheCouch definitely not a server problem, wtf?)

    Damn shame, when I made a thread on this topic (psychological problem with concede, one votes and many follow seeing it), I got like 20 dislikes :(
  • BentRingBentRing Join Date: 2003-03-04 Member: 14318Members
    edited February 2014
    Khyron wrote: »
    Sometimes it's just one person who trumpets concede too early and that makes many other players give up hope. Some people just aren't prepared to play unless they have the advantage. It's a social problem, not a technical problem (and @OscarTheCouch definitely not a server problem, wtf?)

    Just as annoying is when 80% of the necessary people have conceded but the remainder won't. At that point it doesn't matter if you think there's still a chance to win - your team has stopped trying.


    If one person is trumpeting concede, and you don't agree, you should be telling the rest of the team that instead of conceding now we should try this or that first, then we will concede if everything fails.

    Alternatively, if there is small percentage that won't concede to a lost game, ask them for what their idea for winning the game is, and try what they suggest because if they don't have any ideas then they obviously agree we have already lost.

    If, in either case you can't have enough communication from your team for this tactic to work, then as you said it's a social problem, and as OscarTheCouch said, find another server, because at that point you may as well be playing combat.
  • soccerguy243soccerguy243 Join Date: 2012-12-22 Member: 175920Members, WC 2013 - Supporter
    Khyron wrote: »
    Sometimes it's just one person who trumpets concede too early and that makes many other players give up hope. Some people just aren't prepared to play unless they have the advantage. It's a social problem, not a technical problem (and @OscarTheCouch definitely not a server problem, wtf?)

    Just as annoying is when 80% of the necessary people have conceded but the remainder won't. At that point it doesn't matter if you think there's still a chance to win - your team has stopped trying.

    Hope? This is a video game. It lasts 10 minutes if people are conceeding. There is no morale factor, hope doesn't matter. As yoda said do or do not.
  • CrushaKCrushaK Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167195Members, NS2 Playtester
    I prefer the enemy team conceding over leaving. Because many "comebacks" are often achieved by the annoying auto-balance system that is in place.
    That system tends to hurt marines a lot more than it does for aliens. Example: You are making a push far into enemy territory, set up a forward PG with two guys while the rest of your team is busy elsewhere. In the next room you get swarmed by 2-3 Skulks. Under normal circumstances would you be able to respawn in time with a teammate to phase back in time and fend them off. But if you get caught off guard, those Skulks are free to take down the PG and the forward base before anyone else in your team can react. You just lost so much map control because 1-2 enemy players decided to F4... seems fair.
  • BobRossTheBossBobRossTheBoss Join Date: 2012-12-31 Member: 176824Members
    Roobubba wrote: »
    What annoys me is when people don't see that the game is lost already. Like as aliens when you've lost your two first harvesters, have Marine phase gates outside your hive and no upgrades, while the marines are on w2 a2 shotguns.

    Or as Marine you spent the entire game on 2 extractors while the aliens had 6, you can't kill the lerks and fades and you know there will be 4 oni any second now.

    Sure, try a base rush, but please learn when more experienced players with more kills than the rest of you combined tell you that it's over, it's over.

    It's annoying when your team won't concede because "never give up, never surrender!". But what I hate is when they do the same thing but won't even actively try to win with something like a base rush or a sneaky phase. Instead they just do what they've done for the rest of the round or try to turtle as long as possible, making the game last even longer than it would if they tried for some crazy last ditch strategy.
  • elodeaelodea Editlodea Join Date: 2009-06-20 Member: 67877Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited February 2014
    Don't see the problem.

    First sign of cancer, you go see your doctor.

    Maybe if the round you were playing wasn't so cancer, there would be less conceding. Food for thought

  • justbob333justbob333 Join Date: 2013-03-01 Member: 183502Members
    Well kkyle lets see with that game.

    with platform and falls marines would be hard pressed to keep canopy and seeding.
    Marines with 2/4 extractors easily contested.
    aliens with 1/5 harvesters being harassed.

    Marines lose 1/2 bases leaving them with perhaps the easiest base to turtle in, most likely the hardest to push out from late game.
    aliens gain control of a possible 4th base.

    How exactly were the marines doing well?


    Honestly how long would it have taken you to get leap/third hive up at that point? 1-2 minutes?
  • RunkiRunki Helsingborg, Sweden Join Date: 2012-12-02 Member: 173929Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Its a vote for a reason, but if the vote fails you usually end up with even worse teammate just standing around.
  • MrFangsMrFangs Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184474Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    In my experience, you get both: players conceding at the smallest sign of trouble, and teams failing to concede when the round is obviously lost. The latter does not annoy me so much, as it's simply a matter of learning. But the "oh NO we lost our third hive, let's concede" faction drives me nuts.

    Like someone already wrote above... even when things look bleak, team up and try something bold. Most of the time, you'll go down in flames, but the times when you catch the enemy off-guard and get a comeback are just awesome. But x->concede is more appealing to some, it seems...
  • JaggedBladeJaggedBlade Join Date: 2004-09-11 Member: 31619Members, Constellation
    I'm always one of the last players to concede...work as a team guys!
  • Soylent_greenSoylent_green Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11220Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I can still have fun while losing, and annoying the "OMG! concede!!!!!!111" people by completely ignoring them has its charms as well. Remove concede, remove the ridiculous autobalance and just let them F4 if they're so set on ending the round.
  • SaltlickSaltlick Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177347Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    On the marine side, I'm a fan of the "recycle IPs, go out guns blazing" type of concede. Conceding wouldn't be so hard for noobs to swallow if the conclusion wasn't so damn uninteresting.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    Hamlet wrote: »
    A psychological victory is just as good - strike that: better - than your run-of-the-mill victory.
    Heavily disagree.
    Also, Tactical Gamer server's concede function FTW (wish it replaced the default concede mechanic)
  • NeXuSNeXuS US Join Date: 2013-10-13 Member: 188681Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    I just hate when aliens sit on 3 RTs for most of the game and the team tries to concede before or just as fades pop. 3 RTs is plenty for aliens. Just sit on 3 at a minimum and harass the marines' res like crazy. let the fades and oni do the clearing and heavy work.
  • ArthurDentArthurDent Join Date: 2013-10-31 Member: 188904Members
    The thing is, allot of the concedes could be directly attributed to unbalanced teams. I'm hoping that with the new force team balance that matches will be more balanced, resulting in allot more fun gameplay.
  • amoralamoral Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177250Members
    Zalamael wrote: »
    coolitic wrote: »
    While I do find that players concede way too easily, removing the concede option isn't the right way to fix it. People would just start to f4.

    At least you wouldn't have to ask for an hour to concede (when nothing can be done).

    Most of the time you have to concede because the team isn't really good, but also the team just don't understand English (which is often used). The worst are the "no sound guys".



    And, many noobs don't know how to concede. I've seen countless attempts to end a done deal, and the vote only passes once someone has explained how to go about voting yes/no :P

    Usually, when someone is trying to get a concede, the first two messages are in my experience

    "press x
    vote concede"

    It's what I say, too.

    I usually say hold x and vote to concede. pressing is ambiguous.
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    amoral wrote: »
    Zalamael wrote: »
    coolitic wrote: »
    While I do find that players concede way too easily, removing the concede option isn't the right way to fix it. People would just start to f4.

    At least you wouldn't have to ask for an hour to concede (when nothing can be done).

    Most of the time you have to concede because the team isn't really good, but also the team just don't understand English (which is often used). The worst are the "no sound guys".



    And, many noobs don't know how to concede. I've seen countless attempts to end a done deal, and the vote only passes once someone has explained how to go about voting yes/no :P

    Usually, when someone is trying to get a concede, the first two messages are in my experience

    "press x
    vote concede"

    It's what I say, too.

    I usually say hold x and vote to concede. pressing is ambiguous.

    thats true. on the other hand, if you press it only shortly, there /will/ appear a comm rose for a fraction of a second, so the next natural reaction is usual to hold it....
  • amoralamoral Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177250Members
    amoral wrote: »
    Zalamael wrote: »
    coolitic wrote: »
    While I do find that players concede way too easily, removing the concede option isn't the right way to fix it. People would just start to f4.

    At least you wouldn't have to ask for an hour to concede (when nothing can be done).

    Most of the time you have to concede because the team isn't really good, but also the team just don't understand English (which is often used). The worst are the "no sound guys".



    And, many noobs don't know how to concede. I've seen countless attempts to end a done deal, and the vote only passes once someone has explained how to go about voting yes/no :P

    Usually, when someone is trying to get a concede, the first two messages are in my experience

    "press x
    vote concede"

    It's what I say, too.

    I usually say hold x and vote to concede. pressing is ambiguous.

    thats true. on the other hand, if you press it only shortly, there /will/ appear a comm rose for a fraction of a second, so the next natural reaction is usual to hold it....

    too much credit given on insufficient evidence. shouldn't have to tell people not to be floor skulks more than once too...
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    amoral wrote: »
    Zalamael wrote: »
    coolitic wrote: »
    While I do find that players concede way too easily, removing the concede option isn't the right way to fix it. People would just start to f4.

    At least you wouldn't have to ask for an hour to concede (when nothing can be done).

    Most of the time you have to concede because the team isn't really good, but also the team just don't understand English (which is often used). The worst are the "no sound guys".



    And, many noobs don't know how to concede. I've seen countless attempts to end a done deal, and the vote only passes once someone has explained how to go about voting yes/no :P

    Usually, when someone is trying to get a concede, the first two messages are in my experience

    "press x
    vote concede"

    It's what I say, too.

    I usually say hold x and vote to concede. pressing is ambiguous.

    thats true. on the other hand, if you press it only shortly, there /will/ appear a comm rose for a fraction of a second, so the next natural reaction is usual to hold it....
    I don't know... I used to say "Press X to vote concede" and went no where. Saying "hold X" to vote concede works better.
  • 2cough2cough Rocky Mountain High Join Date: 2013-03-14 Member: 183952Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    edited February 2014
    ArthurDent wrote: »
    The thing is, allot of the concedes could be directly attributed to unbalanced teams. I'm hoping that with the new force team balance that matches will be more balanced, resulting in allot more fun gameplay.

    Dunno if you've tried it yet, but it's also highly susceptible to abuse. The Shine mod random shuffle disallows persons to switch teams after a successful vote, however if people rage, nobody can then switch teams to balance back. In the new vanilla force random, players can f4 and choose team again.

    Anyways, I always vote concede if it's clearly a waste of time to continue. I have a life (kinda) and so do a lot of other people who'd rather not drag out an inevitable loss. I do however HATE when the commander foresees a loss and hops out of chair/hive, refuses to get back in, blames all players, votes concede, and turns a chance at a possible win into a definite loss. Those are inexcusable!
  • alansmilealotalansmilealot Join Date: 2012-11-15 Member: 171301Members
    edited February 2014
    this is what we should do with concedes. I got this idea from a mod, where the losing team can't attack...

    Aliens Concede
    All marine have the option to go Split Exo(Rail Gun, Gattling gun).
    All Aliens and Alien structures are shown on mini map and marines are granted the Aura Ability.
    Exos with FlameThrower becomes availible
    Marines have all upgrades availble.
    Jetpack Fuel is unlimted.


    Marines Concede
    All aliens lifeforms and upgrades are free
    All Marines and Marine structures are shown on mini map and marines are granted the Aura Ability.
    Aliens energy pool in unlimited
    Unlimted leaps
    Onos can hover a certain distance off the ground.(similar to jetpack mechanics)
    Gorges gained the ability to fly similar to lerks.
    Gorge hydra limit is changed to 8
    Whips dont require infestation to be planted.

    Losing team can't attack

    Plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz someone make these changes.....


  • KKyleKKyle Michigan Join Date: 2005-07-01 Member: 55067Members
    Here's an update if anyone is interested:

    Well, since posting this I have received alot less rounds of concede. I don't know what it was but I credit it to this song I've written to listen. Call me cheesy if ya want, but it's a song I wrote which better portrays the emotion of which I am attempting to convey.

    It's simple, really.

    The First phase of the song: the challenge
    the second phase of the song: the strategy
    the third phase of the song: Adapting

    Listen to it on backround on audio as loop and you're guaranteed to be more confident while talking on the microphone! (That is until some chap talks louder than the song) & the song is free to download via soundcloud.https://soundcloud.com/kyle-abent/the-human-flaw-of-concede
  • joshhhjoshhh Milwaukee, WI Join Date: 2011-06-21 Member: 105717Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    Unlimted leaps

    One darwin skulk is enough to drive me crazy. A whole server of them would make my ears bleed.
  • radforChristradforChrist USA Join Date: 2002-11-04 Member: 6871Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Subnautica Playtester
    IronHorse wrote: »
    Also, Tactical Gamer server's concede function FTW (wish it replaced the default concede mechanic)

    Agreed. I love the simplicity of it, yet it fulfills most of the desires of those who dislike concede in its current form.
  • NeXuSNeXuS US Join Date: 2013-10-13 Member: 188681Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    joshhh wrote: »
    Unlimted leaps

    One darwin skulk is enough to drive me crazy. A whole server of them would make my ears bleed.
    rawr rawr rawr rawr RAWR RAWR RAWR
  • GeekavengerGeekavenger Join Date: 2012-08-31 Member: 157117Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    this is what we should do with concedes. I got this idea from a mod, where the losing team can't attack...

    Aliens Concede
    All marine have the option to go Split Exo(Rail Gun, Gattling gun).
    All Aliens and Alien structures are shown on mini map and marines are granted the Aura Ability.
    Exos with FlameThrower becomes availible
    Marines have all upgrades availble.
    Jetpack Fuel is unlimted.


    Marines Concede
    All aliens lifeforms and upgrades are free
    All Marines and Marine structures are shown on mini map and marines are granted the Aura Ability.
    Aliens energy pool in unlimited
    Unlimted leaps
    Onos can hover a certain distance off the ground.(similar to jetpack mechanics)
    Gorges gained the ability to fly similar to lerks.
    Gorge hydra limit is changed to 8
    Whips dont require infestation to be planted.

    Losing team can't attack

    Plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz someone make these changes.....


    Feels a little over complex. I like how Tactical Gamer does it right now, but if you wanted it to be more ostentatious how about this:

    Aliens Concede:
    All Marines not in Exo's get Jetpacks w/ Unlimited Fuel
    A3/W3 unlocked if not already

    Aliens stop re-spawning and show up on the mini-map
    Loose evolved upgrades (cara, cele... etc)

    Marines Concede:
    All Aliens get constant mucus/enzyme buff
    Option to immediately (or forced) evolve to Onos
    Spawn as Onos

    Marines stop spawning and show up on Minimap
    Loose Jetpacks


    Or what about:

    Honestly I think it would be really fun as an alternative to just going into a Kill-em-all concede mode too, where hives/Comm chairs are removed, and conceding team stops re-spawning and shows up on the mini-map. And then as your team dwindles you should get point multipliers based on the number of remaining players (x1.5 for 5 players left, x2 for 4 etc). So last player standing can rack up a bunch of points if they get any kills.
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