marine jump energy
NS-Soldier
Join Date: 2013-01-16 Member: 179856Members
Join Date: 2013-01-16 Member: 179856Members
Comments
If you have not received your Jump energy, please contact your closest surviving T-SF Outpost and shoot whoever is in charge.
NERF Nerf nerf.
=D
There's a lot of things which play into making a player great
Strategy
Time Management
Aim
Movement
Remove one from the list and it starts to become a different game in terms of what the player is capable of -- Marines have already lost what they had before due to masses crying about it (personally I thought it was better when the marine got a little bit more movement - it didn't do much besides make marine a bit more fun, especially sliding down ramps, and give you just enough wiggle room to get off ONE more shot in combat which could be the difference between you or that fade)
You can talk about skill, balance, movement, etc. all day long, and I get it. Its important to have a high skill ceiling for tense and enjoyable gameplay long term. That doesn't change anything when it comes to frustrating new skulks who eternally see these marines jumping backwards as fast as they can sprint.
It makes these players feel like there was nothing they could do to succeed, and it makes them want to quit. (I am aware of course that additional skill and experience makes it easier to secure these kills, no need to tell me thanks!)
It seems to me then that you either choose to choose between the individuals who are learning the game, or the game itself, and make a compromise. I personally haven't decided, but I completely sympathise with people like the OP who come across this source of irritation.
You should learn to play, there's some good tutorials on youtube and you can try the in-game tutorial.
If you need any advice you can post in the 'new player' part of the forum or ask somebody in-game.
I am sure with a little help we can get you to bite these mean jumpy marines!
Remember: NS2 gets better when you get better!
Why are your new skulk friends on the ground? They should be dropping from above, hiding round corners, and bouncing off walls. Marines can't jump their way out of those bites. As a more experienced player and the one introducing them to the game, the onus is upon you to teach them before they go in COD style and get bad experiences.
A great point, and me and my 4-5 buddies that are still playing the game have a great time now. I suppose I also cast to try to inform more people and positively impact peoples enjoyment, but there are limits to how many I reach. Maybe I am making assumptions, but it seems to me people will just leave if they don't have helpful people like us around and they are faced with this frustration. I bet most people leave before checking for assistance, probably preceded by words similar to "ah fuck this I cant be bothered".
So to clarify, we can try to help individuals, but the mechanics themselves are ubiquitous beyond our capacities. Therefore we compromise between skill ceiling/ player enjoyment, as I initially mentioned.
It's great that you are casting to help others out, in fact I think I have seen some of your videos. It's good your friends are sticking with the game. There is certainly something unique about this game in all its complexity (and with all its various little flaws) that provides an unmatched opportunity for fun and japes. I try to help out newbies or rookies whenever I can, and despite having many hundreds of hours of gameplay, there is a lot I can still improve upon. The best feeling is when that rookie you just told to not complete power before building the structure in a new room actually learns from his/her mistake in the next room. Hopefully those not bothered to learn will leave the game, and we can build a community of teamwork oriented, communicative players. I still feel that the mechanics are pretty much developed to their maximum now, and only the smallest of tweaks are required. Instead, there must be a greater focus on actual teaching and guiding of new players, or even not-so-new players.
I think the pro crowd can do a lot more on this front. We often see pros appearing on my regular server, and sadly pretty much all of them end up stacking one side to have a nice little blast. Even when they divide themselves up (often after being asked), they just play their best game but don't take the time to give even a little guidance to those not-so-good players around them. More often, they will rack up 5:1 kd ratios and then whine about the crapness of the team if they start getting killed or their team starts losing. On one occasion when one gather regular got called out on his obnoxiousness towards others on his public team ("you won't make friends that way"), he said he doesn't want "sh***ty pubbers for friends." This is an all to common attitude amongst the ego-stroking elite, and a major contributor to the resentment/anti-pro/anti-highskill-player sentiment on many of the public servers. The indifference and sometimes outright hostility of the high-skilled players towards those with less hours I think does contribute to poor player retention, and is a major failing of the proficient-player community.
It is not so much how often a marine can jump that is the issue. In my experience it is the simple fact that a marine can jump-dash away from an alien then turn 90 degrees away from the direction they jumped and fire at said alien. As the game is now there is no way for an alien to counter this and close the distance. A skilled marine will continualy outmaneuver an alien in speed and distance while employing this method and win any engagement more times than not.
That being stated, here is my offered solution:
Marines already move slower when traveling backwards. Just apply this to jumping while moving.
Why:
Marines already have the ability to shoot from a distance and melee. aliens only (for the most part) have melee. As it is currently implemented, a marine has an advantage both near and far. If this is implemented, hatchet and riflebutt should be buffed against lifeforms but not against structures.
Conclusion:
If you want to witness what I am speaking of in real time then look no further than this video. Watch from 5:20 to 16:16.
Note: It'sSuperEffective! is a fine and honorable player, I have played against him many times. His video just shows the flaw with current marine jumping.
It is my wish that this topic gets the attention it deserves and we all have a mature and intelligent discourse about it.
thank you.
the "dashing" shown there has been removed mid of october last year already
Marine movement has been criticized by many different people over the last 3-4 years (that I recall), with the complaint almost always being based from the premise "marines are too strong in melee" (para-phrased ).
Clearly the underlying issue is not being fixed and tinkering at the edges that has been done is proving pointless.
Marines should not be half as strong as they are in melee combat, this is what turns most ppl off the game.
Its hard enough to learn to close the distance without taking massive damage/dieing and to then have even more trouble trying to land 3+bites simply makes things even less enjoyable.
Either heavily nerf jumping, match skulk air physics for all directional changes, widen bite cone back with 1 big max damage zone or do something to fix this issue.
Widening bite cone does not matter at higher level as everyone can aim bites so is just a lower skill leveller.
Similarly jumping and air physics are less pronounced at higher levels as players know what to expect and are better at predicting (and exp players are often more predictable) so again would really only impacts the lower skilled players/games.
Pubbers seem to kick up a huge stink if you get anything other than shift hive first. I think that's because they need celerity to close distance. They find it too hard to ambush a marine because unless you enter combat with a huge amount of momentum you will never close the distance in time. It's not so bad for those who can wall jump (which is not complicated at all) but most pubbers still don't do it, so they need celerity.
I also agree with the sentiment that giving marines evasion capability adds depth to the game. So for me it's not that marine movement needs to be outright nerfed, but probably a bit of that and a bit of a look at skulk movement and crucially the relationship between the two. For example, sometimes skulks feel extremely sluggish when you're chasing after a sprinting marine.
Ultimately I want marines to more strongly prefer long range engagements and skulks to feel more of an upper hand once they have closed to melee range. But I'm not looking for a massive change here. Something slight.
edit for more clarity x2
Spamming jump isn't a "movement" skill that makes a great player lol.... Play QL pls.
Really? I was almost sure it's only been criticized ever since they added strafe jumps. I dont mean to sound passive-aggressive, but, exactly where have people largely criticized marine movement earlier than that?
I agree with marines having too much ability to keep distance but mostly just with jetpacks. I also do find it annoying that people tend to go shift hive first, but compared to earlier, people complain about it less. "Long-range" is a bit subjective as not all consider it "long-range" with NS2's relatively compact maps. Maybe we can reduce jetpack recharge time but make it slightly (not by much) faster?
Itssupereffective clearly states that the jumpstrafe was removed from the video 2 months ago. what is in the vid is the current jump.
proof:
It'sSuperEffective! 2 months ago
Removed side jump mechanic.
No strafe jump was just one of the issues that cropped up more recently, I am assuming your join date is reflective so you will have missed a fair bit prior to then...so you not so much being passive aggressive as ignorant of what went on before you started playing less than 12 months ago.
You missed a lot of crap for aliens...such as LMG with a underslung GL...was massive resistance to that change (from the vocal marine focused players).
Movement issues wise...you missed marines can change direction 180 without the same penalty as aliens, push back creating skulk surfing (as apparently marines needed to be pushed back when a skulk landed a bite....), ramp up speed differences...the list goes on and on.
So perhaps spend a day or so going back over the forums over the last 4 years and you will see this is not a new issue.
The experience of new players should not be made worse simply to add some depth to the old players.
A successful game will have more new/low skilled players than top level players and thats required if the games to be successful.
Whilst I agree the overall balance of the game is tricky it would be easier to balance if you allowed aliens to have the melee advantage as that would allow marines to be more powerful at range.
This game is meant to have 2 unique sides...this should be done with almost no overlap...sadly the decision has been for marines to be ~ 50-50 in melee excluding their prior ranged advantage.
The reversing of the skulk bite could be enough in itself as it greatly increased skulks melee ability from teh start of a game, adding stamina to marine jump or matching air mechanics would all be relatively minor in overall balance but significant change in melee balance.
Also practice "flick-biting" instead of mashing your face into a marine. It will help you keep your momentum in combat.
Also no one said you could not beat this tactic, in fact I indicated that this issue is less of a problem with higher skilled players as they have learned all these tricks.
So this mechanics just makes the gap between new and top players greater.
But this is just one of the multitude of issues that lead to marines being 50-50 chance in melee...which is what I indicated in previous posts.