And when the marines start countering this by moving in bigger groups, the aliens just ignore them and attack somewhere else where the marines aren't?
I don't think that's necessarily how it would play out, even with perfect team co-ordination.
That's exactly how it should play out and how it will play out if the alien team is capable of teamwork. This is the very basic strategic mechanic of the game; marines need to utilise lane blocking and spreading to make sure that the aliens cannot surprise any of their phase gates or their bases. Why do you think alien base rushes work better than marine hiverushes?
And like I said earlier, I'm not opposed to changing these mechanics because there is no way to balance it out, I'm opposed to it because that would be an amazingly large amount of work (months and months of patches out of balance instead of a few 'tweaks' you seem to think it would require) and, in my opinion, would make the game boring and skulking much too easy.
The scale is 5 min for both graphs. (0-5 min, 5-10 min and so on). Red = Aliens, Blue = Marines
There's been two statements I wanted to undermine with the image. How I see it:
- There is a positive slope, that means time is favoring the Alienside and thats because of strong Lerks, Fades and finally Onos.
That equals to strong mid late game for Aliens.
- A good early game is a deciding factor for Marine win. Not so much for Aliens.
This two statements lead to the gameplay we see nowadays (check Aliens Early Game?Thread): Aliens sit out Marine expansion. Evade them, defend areas, save res, wait it out and then booom destroy.
In my opinion very boring. As Alien I would like to do something early aswell instead of passive things and in turn it wouldn't be so strong mid/late game (nerf Alien lifeforms / buff Exo, ...) => Eliminate the slope
Someone summed it up in one sentence..if aliens are hypothetically forced to go shift(to be at a even playing field) to keep up with marine early mobility(read: evasion) , that should tell you something.
As for the 60% kharaa win, not sure if that is taking into account marine losses due to bile rushes, bad marine comm reaction, etc. Where marine jump/evasion isn't an issue.
my point of this thread was about how marine can jump backwards like 4 feet away so easy but i wasn't being clear. as many have mentioned, skulk do need leap of some sort, as a an upgrade without commander's support.
Marines can't jump backwards out of the way of a skulk like you're describing. Try it in game. Press backwards and jump and see how that works out.
When marines juke a skulk this way they are doing something more similar to a TF2 rocket jump most likely.
my point of this thread was about how marine can jump backwards like 4 feet away so easy but i wasn't being clear. as many have mentioned, skulk do need leap of some sort, as a an upgrade without commander's support.
Marines can't jump backwards out of the way of a skulk like you're describing. Try it in game. Press backwards and jump and see how that works out.
When marines juke a skulk this way they are doing something more similar to a TF2 rocket jump most likely.
yes marine can do it. it's actually press backward and jump
my point of this thread was about how marine can jump backwards like 4 feet away so easy but i wasn't being clear. as many have mentioned, skulk do need leap of some sort, as a an upgrade without commander's support.
Marines can't jump backwards out of the way of a skulk like you're describing. Try it in game. Press backwards and jump and see how that works out.
When marines juke a skulk this way they are doing something more similar to a TF2 rocket jump most likely.
yes marine can do it. it's actually press backward and jump
TSF rule number 34. Never press S key. You move slower when holding S key and you don't jump as far.
my point of this thread was about how marine can jump backwards like 4 feet away so easy but i wasn't being clear. as many have mentioned, skulk do need leap of some sort, as a an upgrade without commander's support.
Marines can't jump backwards out of the way of a skulk like you're describing. Try it in game. Press backwards and jump and see how that works out.
When marines juke a skulk this way they are doing something more similar to a TF2 rocket jump most likely.
yes marine can do it. it's actually press backward and jump
This is why these threads are never taken seriously.
my point of this thread was about how marine can jump backwards like 4 feet away so easy but i wasn't being clear. as many have mentioned, skulk do need leap of some sort, as a an upgrade without commander's support.
Marines can't jump backwards out of the way of a skulk like you're describing. Try it in game. Press backwards and jump and see how that works out.
When marines juke a skulk this way they are doing something more similar to a TF2 rocket jump most likely.
yes marine can do it. it's actually press backward and jump
And doing this in game caused the skulk to miss you completely and you watched him slide past you like Bambi on ice, resulting in you killing him?
If the skulks in a server are playing are playing that poorly, I don't see where a built in mini leap would be beneficial.
What I'm saying here, is that literally the only time I can think of where pressing S and jumping would be useful at all is if doing so puts an obstacle between you and the skulk, such as jumping backwards off a railing. In normal (read: excluding drastic circumstances we could all theorycraft) combat what marines are doing to gain distance from the skulk is not jumping directly backwards.
my point of this thread was about how marine can jump backwards like 4 feet away so easy but i wasn't being clear. as many have mentioned, skulk do need leap of some sort, as a an upgrade without commander's support.
Marines can't jump backwards out of the way of a skulk like you're describing. Try it in game. Press backwards and jump and see how that works out.
When marines juke a skulk this way they are doing something more similar to a TF2 rocket jump most likely.
yes marine can do it. it's actually press backward and jump
This is why these threads are never taken seriously.
People dislike this particular thread. The truth is that this issue comes up so much it most certainly should be addressed by the devs.
Conclusion:
If you want to witness what I am speaking of in real time then look no further than this video. Watch from 5:20 to 16:16.
my point of this thread was about how marine can jump backwards like 4 feet away so easy but i wasn't being clear. as many have mentioned, skulk do need leap of some sort, as a an upgrade without commander's support.
Marines can't jump backwards out of the way of a skulk like you're describing. Try it in game. Press backwards and jump and see how that works out.
When marines juke a skulk this way they are doing something more similar to a TF2 rocket jump most likely.
yes marine can do it. it's actually press backward and jump
This is why these threads are never taken seriously.
what's why please explain.
What he means is that when you press 'S' you move backwards. When you move backwards, you have a slowdown modifier, which makes you move slower. Because you are moving slower, your jump is not very far.
The jumping mechanic you are complaining about is marines using strafe and jumping, they are most definitely not pressing 'S'. There is even a tutorial video in game that plays telling you not to move backwards as your movement is slowed, but rather to strafe to the side.
The point he is making is people complaining about a mechanic, with no idea of what the mechanic is. or how to use the mechanic, is why the threads are never taken seriously.
Excessive marine strafe jump was removed, now there is only jumping and strafing normally. Try it in game yourself. try jumping and holding 'S' and see how many times you get out of the skulks way....
Then try jumping and strafing, you'll see the difference.
The reason these threads cop so much flak is because they're started on the premise of misinformation - usually that marines can just spam jump willy nilly without getting a speed/height penalty (which you effectively claimed in the OP). Thus, there being no reason for a thread under those grounds because the information presented in support of the argument is not actually factual. Now you're claiming that marines can hold back and jump to great effect - which is also not factual. If you hold back and jump you barely clear any distance at all.
I don't think the issue is necessarily cut and dry. I do think there is room for debate on the issue as long as those discussing it have an understanding of how the game actually works. For example, Khyron has raised some decent points, even if I don't necessarily agree that jumping should change. However, arguments based on misconceptions of game mechanics only spreads misinformation and stifles the more reasonable debates that are put forth.
my point of this thread was about how marine can jump backwards like 4 feet away so easy but i wasn't being clear. as many have mentioned, skulk do need leap of some sort, as a an upgrade without commander's support.
Marines can't jump backwards out of the way of a skulk like you're describing. Try it in game. Press backwards and jump and see how that works out.
When marines juke a skulk this way they are doing something more similar to a TF2 rocket jump most likely.
yes marine can do it. it's actually press backward and jump
This is why these threads are never taken seriously.
The reason these threads cop so much flak is because they're started on the premise of misinformation - usually that marines can just spam jump willy nilly without getting a speed/height penalty (which you effectively claimed in the OP). Thus, there being no reason for a thread under those grounds because the information presented in support of the argument is not actually factual. Now you're claiming that marines can hold back and jump to great effect - which is also not factual. If you hold back and jump you barely clear any distance at all.
I don't think the issue is necessarily cut and dry. I do think there is room for debate on the issue as long as those discussing it have an understanding of how the game actually works. For example, Khyron has raised some decent points, even if I don't necessarily agree that jumping should change. However, arguments based on misconceptions of game mechanics only spreads misinformation and stifles the more reasonable debates that are put forth.
This is why I said the following here, and in your last thread.
As players get more experience they will learn that there are actually quite of bit of downsides when jumping. For example:
While in the air your movement is linear and you can't change direction, this allows the alien to predict your movement easily.
After you land you receive a small slowdown which allows the alien to circle around you pretty effectively.
While in the air you have less chance of receiving med packs.
Most marines that just spam jump will be easy picks for more experienced skulks, since their movement is slow and easily predicted. When playing skulks you just need to have your camera aim little bit upwards and the jump won't have a big effect.
The best timing to jump is either after you do a successful dodge to create more distance or to do a backjump if the alien fails to maintain his movement speed. The biggest trap aliens fall for when a marine does a back jump is running in a straight line after them , this allows the marines to do full damage with ease.
This pointers are just scratching the surface of what you can possible do during combat, the key point is that jumping is quite often overrated.
Even when strafe jump got given a boost it really didnt have a huge amount of effect. And would you believe it, people were still complaining about it months after it got removed, due to the fact they had not noticed any difference.
Marines are too hard to bite, wah wah wah, please change the game for me so I don't have to learn (
my point of this thread was about how marine can jump backwards like 4 feet away so easy but i wasn't being clear. as many have mentioned, skulk do need leap of some sort, as a an upgrade without commander's support.
Marines can't jump backwards out of the way of a skulk like you're describing. Try it in game. Press backwards and jump and see how that works out.
When marines juke a skulk this way they are doing something more similar to a TF2 rocket jump most likely.
yes marine can do it. it's actually press backward and jump
This is why these threads are never taken seriously.
Cmon do we really expect new players to realise this is the bunnyhop of classic hl and that what they think they are seeing they are in fact not?
Did you realise that the person pulling off those BS evasive maneuvers was using strafing with combination of rapid 180's?
Its not like the models are going to show this spin on the screen given the FPS most ppl still get.
Just because new players dont understand exactly the problem does not mean its not there, as experienced players we know better as to what is actually happening.
It does not mean its not an issue and one of the reason players get turned off the game.
If it wasn't as much of an issue you would all not be so "over" these threads.
This is no different to push back on bites which was supposedly 100% necessary too but now is thankfully gone.
The jump mechanic was made to look totally silly when push back broke for a patch and we had those seemingly low G marine physics, sadly only half of the issues actually been fixed and the jump stamina has been left untouched.
The slow down on successive jumps is cancelled out if you increase elevation of landing compared to when you initiate the jump.
Something that only highly skilled players know how to do but it contributes massively to poor experience of gameplay.
Can we get an accuracy penalty for marine jumping?
No. There are already enough penalties to this:
predictable movement path
slow-down on landing (very limited areas to maintain momentum using constantly higher ground)
Already more difficult to aim while in the air than staying on the ground
Not to mention the already fairly large random spread of the rifle.
Can we get an accuracy penalty for marine jumping?
No. There are already enough penalties to this:
predictable movement path
slow-down on landing (very limited areas to maintain momentum using constantly higher ground)
Already more difficult to aim while in the air than staying on the ground
Not to mention the already fairly large random spread of the rifle.
So you think that having the same accuracy when you are standing and when you are jumping is balanced?
Did you not think that perhaps if accuracy drops when in the air that a slight tightening of the spread when on the ground could be used to balance?
That way you can still strafe and have good accuracy but cant jump and strafe with same accuracy?
Seriously we can bury our heads in teh sand as we have done for the last 3 or so years on this...or we can address the crap experience new players have by adjusting things such as the whole melee combat balance (which is close to 50-50) and allow new players to get more enjoyment from learning to play aliens than it currently is.
Lets remember that apparently these issues are not relevant at higher levels so it only impacts how greatly experienced players can stomp new players.
Apparently we are more concerned about being able to stomp new players than ensuring we attract a new playing base and have a more balanced game.
Changing the balance of skulk vs marine combat will affect all levels of play.
I'd much rather newbies were put with other newish players by default rather than have them all over the 'no rookies' servers ruining the game for the rest of us like they do at the minute.
There are many ways to skin a cat.
Changing the balance of skulk vs marine combat will affect all levels of play.
I'd much rather newbies were put with other newish players by default rather than have them all over the 'no rookies' servers ruining the game for the rest of us like they do at the minute.
There are many ways to skin a cat.
Not given overall player base size there is not and a server full of rookies...no one knowing how to comm or demonstrate the required teamwork, upgrade paths, basic strats, etc?
The idea of matchmaking would not work as a green marines no where near as green as an alien player...yet they will both be joining the same server.
There is too much asymmetry for matchmaking to be some silver bullet solution especially given the small player base.
Where would those experienced players play? In their own private little groups? What happens if you want to play at 2am, 11am, 2pm etc? I already have to often head OS to find servers/players.
The skinning the cat analogy is a good one...the cats are the new players and the big humans doing the skinning are the experienced players.
Sure the skinners dont see the problem..but the cats sure as fuck do.
Lastly, that you claim these "rookies are ruining non rookie servers" says more than a million words could....how dare someone who is not as 1337 as you join you server and need to be shown the ropes.
I guess they dont want to play with a bunch of ppl that have NFI about how to play this game either as it limits their ability to pick up the needed skills (not all of us want to watch hours of you tube videos to learn how to play (kinda like how no one RTFM's))
Lets remember that apparently these issues are not relevant at higher levels so it only impacts how greatly experienced players can stomp new players.
Apparently we are more concerned about being able to stomp new players than ensuring we attract a new playing base and have a more balanced game.
Nobody's saying it doesn't affect high-level play. Any change made to the marine-vs-skulk early-game mechanics is going to have a huge impact on game balance at all skill levels. What people are saying is that high-level skulks don't see these mechanics as a problem, because they know how to deal with them and understand why they need to be in the game, and thus don't feel the frustration newer players seem to have.
Changing the balance of skulk vs marine combat will affect all levels of play.
I'd much rather newbies were put with other newish players by default rather than have them all over the 'no rookies' servers ruining the game for the rest of us like they do at the minute.
There are many ways to skin a cat.
What a typical mindset of a comp player. One day you will realize that the "rest of us" you're talking about will only consist of 50 people. Amount decreasing...
Nobody's saying it doesn't affect high-level play. Any change made to the marine-vs-skulk early-game mechanics is going to have a huge impact on game balance at all skill levels. What people are saying is that high-level skulks don't see these mechanics as a problem, because they know how to deal with them and understand why they need to be in the game, and thus don't feel the frustration newer players seem to have.
As players get more experience they will learn that there are actually quite of bit of downsides when jumping. For example: While in the air your movement is linear and you can't change direction, this allows the alien to predict your movement easily.
After you land you receive a small slowdown which allows the alien to circle around you pretty effectively.
While in the air you have less chance of receiving med packs. This pointers are just scratching the surface of what you can possible do during combat, the key point is that jumping is quite often overrated.
Good players don't spam jump. And they don't either in QL. They use it when it's good to use it, wich is one of the thing that differentiate good players from bad players.
Contradiction. Fight on. I see no problem if you tune marine jump or other mechanics (e.g. Skulk bite cone) in a way that only benefits newcomers. A harder penalty for consecutive jumps could actually turn out to be a buff for rookie Marines.
Either you have serious problems in reading comprehension or you are just trolling. Not one of your quotes say that marine jumping isn't used in high-level play, they say it's not as black-and-white as people make it out to be and has a lot of drawbacks. There are a lot of situations where jumping in combat is used extensively even in high-level play, some of which are stated in the very same post from Grissi which you conveniently quoted out of context:
The best timing to jump is either after you do a successful dodge to create more distance or to do a backjump if the alien fails to maintain his movement speed. The biggest trap aliens fall for when a marine does a back jump is running in a straight line after them , this allows the marines to do full damage with ease.
This pointers are just scratching the surface of what you can possible do during combat, the key point is that jumping is quite often overrated.
Jumping is used a lot in high-level play, but it's not seen as a problem because the skulks know what they're doing and the players know the game mechanics well enough to understand that it's required to maintain balance.
I'm honestly getting confused on what type of jumping this thread is talking about...
There are basically two kinds of jumps being talked about: the strafe-jump and the pub pogo.
Strafe-jump, which was hella nerfed like a month or two ago, involves either flicking your mouse while jumping sideways which gives you a slight boost of speed creating space between you and your lifeform opponent. In an engagement, you can typically do this once. Good marines usually use it when trying to bait out a ambushing skulk. Once you complete said strafe-jump, shooting while a-d strafing is the best way to juke your opponent. Strafe-jump is very powerful but it is also situational.
Pub-pogoing involves spamming spacebar during an engagement. Usually this only works against inexperienced skulks but many seem think its OP.
Idk... I just don't see any reason to change what we have. Jumping does have diminishing returns AND like grissi pointed out, you lose speed and accel the moment you hit the ground after a jump which makes you more vulnerable.
@hakenspit don't presume anything, you only come across as stupid.
It doesn't take a genius to see "NO ROOKIES" in a server title. Or server messages saying "this IS NOT a rookie friendly server, go play somewhere else if you are Green," as are displayed constantly on those servers. That's not experience at the game, that is basic reading comprehension.
I've done more than my share of training rookies, I've bought the game for random people I don't know and got them into the game. I promote ensl gathers as much as I can. Is it really to much to ask that, when I want a reasonable game with higher-than-average skilled players on a server specifically for those players, that game is not ruined by having half a team of ground skulks and half a team of wall-shooters with terrible awareness, positioning and game sense?
There are still about 4 billion green servers, so don't tell me those players have nowhere else to play.
Comments
That's exactly how it should play out and how it will play out if the alien team is capable of teamwork. This is the very basic strategic mechanic of the game; marines need to utilise lane blocking and spreading to make sure that the aliens cannot surprise any of their phase gates or their bases. Why do you think alien base rushes work better than marine hiverushes?
And like I said earlier, I'm not opposed to changing these mechanics because there is no way to balance it out, I'm opposed to it because that would be an amazingly large amount of work (months and months of patches out of balance instead of a few 'tweaks' you seem to think it would require) and, in my opinion, would make the game boring and skulking much too easy.
No idea. Ask the guy who posted it.
There's been two statements I wanted to undermine with the image. How I see it:
- There is a positive slope, that means time is favoring the Alienside and thats because of strong Lerks, Fades and finally Onos.
That equals to strong mid late game for Aliens.
- A good early game is a deciding factor for Marine win. Not so much for Aliens.
This two statements lead to the gameplay we see nowadays (check Aliens Early Game?Thread): Aliens sit out Marine expansion. Evade them, defend areas, save res, wait it out and then booom destroy.
In my opinion very boring. As Alien I would like to do something early aswell instead of passive things and in turn it wouldn't be so strong mid/late game (nerf Alien lifeforms / buff Exo, ...) => Eliminate the slope
As for the 60% kharaa win, not sure if that is taking into account marine losses due to bile rushes, bad marine comm reaction, etc. Where marine jump/evasion isn't an issue.
Marines can't jump backwards out of the way of a skulk like you're describing. Try it in game. Press backwards and jump and see how that works out.
When marines juke a skulk this way they are doing something more similar to a TF2 rocket jump most likely.
yes marine can do it. it's actually press backward and jump
This is why these threads are never taken seriously.
And doing this in game caused the skulk to miss you completely and you watched him slide past you like Bambi on ice, resulting in you killing him?
If the skulks in a server are playing are playing that poorly, I don't see where a built in mini leap would be beneficial.
What I'm saying here, is that literally the only time I can think of where pressing S and jumping would be useful at all is if doing so puts an obstacle between you and the skulk, such as jumping backwards off a railing. In normal (read: excluding drastic circumstances we could all theorycraft) combat what marines are doing to gain distance from the skulk is not jumping directly backwards.
what's why please explain.
so why can people still jump farther back
What he means is that when you press 'S' you move backwards. When you move backwards, you have a slowdown modifier, which makes you move slower. Because you are moving slower, your jump is not very far.
The jumping mechanic you are complaining about is marines using strafe and jumping, they are most definitely not pressing 'S'. There is even a tutorial video in game that plays telling you not to move backwards as your movement is slowed, but rather to strafe to the side.
The point he is making is people complaining about a mechanic, with no idea of what the mechanic is. or how to use the mechanic, is why the threads are never taken seriously.
Excessive marine strafe jump was removed, now there is only jumping and strafing normally. Try it in game yourself. try jumping and holding 'S' and see how many times you get out of the skulks way....
Then try jumping and strafing, you'll see the difference.
I don't think the issue is necessarily cut and dry. I do think there is room for debate on the issue as long as those discussing it have an understanding of how the game actually works. For example, Khyron has raised some decent points, even if I don't necessarily agree that jumping should change. However, arguments based on misconceptions of game mechanics only spreads misinformation and stifles the more reasonable debates that are put forth.
This is why I said the following here, and in your last thread.
While in the air your movement is linear and you can't change direction, this allows the alien to predict your movement easily.
After you land you receive a small slowdown which allows the alien to circle around you pretty effectively.
While in the air you have less chance of receiving med packs.
Most marines that just spam jump will be easy picks for more experienced skulks, since their movement is slow and easily predicted. When playing skulks you just need to have your camera aim little bit upwards and the jump won't have a big effect.
The best timing to jump is either after you do a successful dodge to create more distance or to do a backjump if the alien fails to maintain his movement speed. The biggest trap aliens fall for when a marine does a back jump is running in a straight line after them , this allows the marines to do full damage with ease.
This pointers are just scratching the surface of what you can possible do during combat, the key point is that jumping is quite often overrated.
Marines are too hard to bite, wah wah wah, please change the game for me so I don't have to learn
Did you realise that the person pulling off those BS evasive maneuvers was using strafing with combination of rapid 180's?
Its not like the models are going to show this spin on the screen given the FPS most ppl still get.
Just because new players dont understand exactly the problem does not mean its not there, as experienced players we know better as to what is actually happening.
It does not mean its not an issue and one of the reason players get turned off the game.
If it wasn't as much of an issue you would all not be so "over" these threads.
This is no different to push back on bites which was supposedly 100% necessary too but now is thankfully gone.
The jump mechanic was made to look totally silly when push back broke for a patch and we had those seemingly low G marine physics, sadly only half of the issues actually been fixed and the jump stamina has been left untouched.
The slow down on successive jumps is cancelled out if you increase elevation of landing compared to when you initiate the jump.
Something that only highly skilled players know how to do but it contributes massively to poor experience of gameplay.
No. There are already enough penalties to this:
predictable movement path
slow-down on landing (very limited areas to maintain momentum using constantly higher ground)
Already more difficult to aim while in the air than staying on the ground
Not to mention the already fairly large random spread of the rifle.
Did you not think that perhaps if accuracy drops when in the air that a slight tightening of the spread when on the ground could be used to balance?
That way you can still strafe and have good accuracy but cant jump and strafe with same accuracy?
Seriously we can bury our heads in teh sand as we have done for the last 3 or so years on this...or we can address the crap experience new players have by adjusting things such as the whole melee combat balance (which is close to 50-50) and allow new players to get more enjoyment from learning to play aliens than it currently is.
Lets remember that apparently these issues are not relevant at higher levels so it only impacts how greatly experienced players can stomp new players.
Apparently we are more concerned about being able to stomp new players than ensuring we attract a new playing base and have a more balanced game.
-OP
All that is relevant is relative.
I'd much rather newbies were put with other newish players by default rather than have them all over the 'no rookies' servers ruining the game for the rest of us like they do at the minute.
There are many ways to skin a cat.
The idea of matchmaking would not work as a green marines no where near as green as an alien player...yet they will both be joining the same server.
There is too much asymmetry for matchmaking to be some silver bullet solution especially given the small player base.
Where would those experienced players play? In their own private little groups? What happens if you want to play at 2am, 11am, 2pm etc? I already have to often head OS to find servers/players.
The skinning the cat analogy is a good one...the cats are the new players and the big humans doing the skinning are the experienced players.
Sure the skinners dont see the problem..but the cats sure as fuck do.
Lastly, that you claim these "rookies are ruining non rookie servers" says more than a million words could....how dare someone who is not as 1337 as you join you server and need to be shown the ropes.
I guess they dont want to play with a bunch of ppl that have NFI about how to play this game either as it limits their ability to pick up the needed skills (not all of us want to watch hours of you tube videos to learn how to play (kinda like how no one RTFM's))
Nobody's saying it doesn't affect high-level play. Any change made to the marine-vs-skulk early-game mechanics is going to have a huge impact on game balance at all skill levels. What people are saying is that high-level skulks don't see these mechanics as a problem, because they know how to deal with them and understand why they need to be in the game, and thus don't feel the frustration newer players seem to have.
Versus
Contradiction. Fight on. I see no problem if you tune marine jump or other mechanics (e.g. Skulk bite cone) in a way that only benefits newcomers. A harder penalty for consecutive jumps could actually turn out to be a buff for rookie Marines.
Either you have serious problems in reading comprehension or you are just trolling. Not one of your quotes say that marine jumping isn't used in high-level play, they say it's not as black-and-white as people make it out to be and has a lot of drawbacks. There are a lot of situations where jumping in combat is used extensively even in high-level play, some of which are stated in the very same post from Grissi which you conveniently quoted out of context:
Jumping is used a lot in high-level play, but it's not seen as a problem because the skulks know what they're doing and the players know the game mechanics well enough to understand that it's required to maintain balance.
There are basically two kinds of jumps being talked about: the strafe-jump and the pub pogo.
Strafe-jump, which was hella nerfed like a month or two ago, involves either flicking your mouse while jumping sideways which gives you a slight boost of speed creating space between you and your lifeform opponent. In an engagement, you can typically do this once. Good marines usually use it when trying to bait out a ambushing skulk. Once you complete said strafe-jump, shooting while a-d strafing is the best way to juke your opponent. Strafe-jump is very powerful but it is also situational.
Pub-pogoing involves spamming spacebar during an engagement. Usually this only works against inexperienced skulks but many seem think its OP.
Idk... I just don't see any reason to change what we have. Jumping does have diminishing returns AND like grissi pointed out, you lose speed and accel the moment you hit the ground after a jump which makes you more vulnerable.
It doesn't take a genius to see "NO ROOKIES" in a server title. Or server messages saying "this IS NOT a rookie friendly server, go play somewhere else if you are Green," as are displayed constantly on those servers. That's not experience at the game, that is basic reading comprehension.
I've done more than my share of training rookies, I've bought the game for random people I don't know and got them into the game. I promote ensl gathers as much as I can. Is it really to much to ask that, when I want a reasonable game with higher-than-average skilled players on a server specifically for those players, that game is not ruined by having half a team of ground skulks and half a team of wall-shooters with terrible awareness, positioning and game sense?
There are still about 4 billion green servers, so don't tell me those players have nowhere else to play.