Make flamethrower a hard counter to fades, but only in a support role. Make the FL not do much damage to aliens and drain energy enough to make a fade think twice before engaging. A lone FL will be a dead FL always, but lone SG would have a chance based on his skill. A FL supporting two SG would be a heck of a force. That would be the counter to the fade ball, a shotgun ball with a single FL
@f0rdprefect you have done nothing to convince me. The thing that you say makes shotguns hard (high spread) is what also makes flamethrowers easy. No, tracking aim makes it harder to hit max damage, as does high spread. It's impossible for both of these things to result in an easier weapon.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but your reasons should be reevaluated.
@james888 yes exactly. Shotgun>ft, but ft+shotgun>shotgun+shotgun. That's how support weapons are supposed to work.
Either would work I think, however it seems like people think fade is fair for the res and the skill required. Plus this would make flamethrowers more than the situational pick up it is now, and the replies in this thread have demonstrated.
You don't need as much skill to get the max out of your flamer, compared to a shotgun.
Shotgun = Twitch aim
Rifle = I don't know how this is called, but you have to follow your target well over the screen
Flamer = You don't have to be as precise as with the rifle, still max. damage output
You can ultimately achieve more with a shotgun - but it requires WAY more skill.
You can kill a fade with a single LMG clip at a pretty good distance if you can follow him the whole time. That takes WAY more skill than to peg him with a shotgun two and a half times though, to the point of being completely unheard of even by professional players vs anything but a full on green.
The flamethrower is similar. You can do SOME damage by spraying it everywhere, but the damage concentrates to the center of the cone and at shotgun range. In other words, to use it to full effect you have to get as close as a shotgunner and then flawlessly track your target WHILE he is obscured by fire.
I'm not saying the FT or LMG is harder to use than the shotgun, but the absolute skill ceiling is actually higher with both weapons.
Well, I think we should solve the problem by nerfing the fade ._.
Revert fade to it's unique movement system and move shadow step to an upgrade, this will delay the fade ball long enough for the jetpack/exo marine rapetrain to get going.
@james888 What then would be the counter to that marine tactic other than strike where marines aren't? Everything should have some kind of counter play to it. Rooms aren't big enough for a lerk to snipe the FL or something of that sort. It's an idea though.
@james888 What then would be the counter to that marine tactic other than strike where marines aren't? Everything should have some kind of counter play to it. Rooms aren't big enough for a lerk to snipe the FL or something of that sort. It's an idea though.
Aliens have all the tools available already. Marines don't have the tools, unless they have enough skill like in the euro finals, to end fade balls. You would take out a sg sg fl group same way you would a sg sg sg group. You just prioritize the fl first. He is already the easiest target. He is slower while on foot, limited damage how I described in the idea, and literally lights up.
I did not say make a fl unstoppable with a shotgun around. You just have to coordinate and kill the fl first. A shotgun rush with a fl takes coordination. It should take equal coordination to stop.
Make flamethrower a hard counter to fades, but only in a support role. Make the FL not do much damage to aliens and drain energy enough to make a fade think twice before engaging. A lone FL will be a dead FL always, but lone SG would have a chance based on his skill. A FL supporting two SG would be a heck of a force. That would be the counter to the fade ball, a shotgun ball with a single FL
@kouji_san
What are you doing necroing threads from half a year ago??
*facepalm* sigh.. this is like the 5th one this week
Wait... Well than I see what is happining... This was in the "Recent Discussions" part of the forums, at the top...
Vanilla forums has the audacity to mess with the likes of me :-w I aplaude it's courage, but I might have to fuel up the flamer tank for this one @IronHorse
@kouji_san
What are you doing necroing threads from half a year ago??
*facepalm* sigh.. this is like the 5th one this week
Wait... Well than I see what is happining... This was in the "Recent Discussions" part of the forums, at the top...
Vanilla forums has the audacity to mess with the likes of me :-w I aplaude it's courage, but I might have to fuel up the flamer tank for this one @IronHorse
@kouji_san
What are you doing necroing threads from half a year ago??
*facepalm* sigh.. this is like the 5th one this week
Wait... Well than I see what is happining... This was in the "Recent Discussions" part of the forums, at the top...
Vanilla forums has the audacity to mess with the likes of me :-w I aplaude it's courage, but I might have to fuel up the flamer tank for this one @IronHorse
Because you have a continuuos stream of (deadly) fire, with a fairly big cone of fire. You don't have to reload for a long time, and have plenty of ammunition.
It's basically all "Spray'n'pray", as you can't run out of ammo, don't have to reload and have no limitations on when you can shoot.
Why is it that so many people seem to be under the false assumption that the Flamethrower doesn't need reloading and never runs out of ammo? It most certainly does require reloading, and you most definitely CAN run out of ammo.
On topic: I greatly prefer the Flamethrower to the Grenade launcher or Shotgun. With Jetpack it becomes almost too easy to chase down fleeing Aliens and burn them to death. (or flee from rushing Aliens while burning them to death lol)
In my opinion it's always worth grabbing a Flamethrower as long as you can afford a Jetpack to go with it. When I can't afford both I'll either just use the LMG and save up, or resort to using the GL.
Get it when you have decent teammates with aim that can take down lifeforms. You support them and burn enemies' energy, get rid of their umbra/spores as well as bile. Oh also, FT disables whips, you can get past them or kill them more easily.
Adv weaponry is very, very situational. In comp matches it's extremely rare a marine team wouldnt be better off with a SG.
GLs are great because you can kill any supporting structure in 4 direct hits (1 clip) and harvesters take 8 direct hits (2 clips) and maybe a few pistol shots to kill, so you can effectively assassinate troublesome alien structures like this... Though if fades are out be aware they WILL target you as the single marine unable to defend itself
Because you have a continuuos stream of (deadly) fire, with a fairly big cone of fire. You don't have to reload for a long time, and have plenty of ammunition.
It's basically all "Spray'n'pray", as you can't run out of ammo, don't have to reload and have no limitations on when you can shoot.
Why is it that so many people seem to be under the false assumption that the Flamethrower doesn't need reloading and never runs out of ammo? It most certainly does require reloading, and you most definitely CAN run out of ammo.
Its a recurring joke. I think there was some thread in the art forum about a flamethrower that never stopped ... flaming. Flamethrowers do have a ton of ammo though, not complaining.
ha! The FT debate:
Let's cut it to the end.
*some ppl think, It's a no skill weapons and OP.
*Does damage on everything.
*No need for a gorge to build some hydras in hive as it get burnt in 3 secs.
*kills bile
*kills umbra/spores
*Blind enemy (normal vision) as teammates (+bug on rifle).
*You look like a lawnmower man or the janitor doing the dirty work.
*Don't really need a cover from teammates while "working".
If only Friendly Fire was set "on"...
That should do it.
You forgot "clutters the room with annoying extra flame textures which may or may not cause some stuttering".
Because you have a continuuos stream of (deadly) fire, with a fairly big cone of fire. You don't have to reload for a long time, and have plenty of ammunition.
It's basically all "Spray'n'pray", as you can't run out of ammo, don't have to reload and have no limitations on when you can shoot.
Why is it that so many people seem to be under the false assumption that the Flamethrower doesn't need reloading and never runs out of ammo? It most certainly does require reloading, and you most definitely CAN run out of ammo.
Well, as long as you reload asap in safety, you will rarely run out of ammo in a fight - a single clip holds a lot of fuel.
Because you have a continuuos stream of (deadly) fire, with a fairly big cone of fire. You don't have to reload for a long time, and have plenty of ammunition.
It's basically all "Spray'n'pray", as you can't run out of ammo, don't have to reload and have no limitations on when you can shoot.
Why is it that so many people seem to be under the false assumption that the Flamethrower doesn't need reloading and never runs out of ammo? It most certainly does require reloading, and you most definitely CAN run out of ammo.
Its a recurring joke. I think there was some thread in the art forum about a flamethrower that never stopped ... flaming. Flamethrowers do have a ton of ammo though, not complaining.
Oh yeah, that was me... This is a recurring joke? Where?
Sorry for the necro again, but I have to respond...
Oh yeah, that was me... This is a recurring joke? Where?
I don't know if I can find all the recurrences but this is one of them I do believe. I can try and find the that old thread about the flamethrower that never stopped.
Sorry for the necro again, but I have to respond...
Oh yeah, that was me... This is a recurring joke? Where?
I don't know if I can find all the recurrences but this is one of them I do believe. I can try and find the that old thread about the flamethrower that never stopped.
+++Protocol from recovered footage #25281 (TSF Marine [REDACTED], ID39174)+++
Day 1: Set up my base in Ball court (Docking). My gear is 1 (one) standard TSF marine armor, 1 (one) TSF Combat Welder, 2 (two) TSF emergency med-kits, 3 (three) standard barrels (TSF norm TSF345900, for field use only), 5 (five) TSF food ratios for emergency scenarios, 1 (one) TSF emergency tent (capable of supporting life in extreme situations, such as icestorms/sandstorms/underwater/vacuum for up to two weeks, provided no additional gear is brought with), 1 (one) TSF Axe and 1 (one) standard TSF Flamethrower as it's used on the field. No additional ammunition.
Let's see how long this baby's gonna burn.
[Subject switches on Flamethrower]
Day 2: The flamethrower has been running for 24 hours straight now. No irregularities noticed. 1/4 (one fourth) of a food supply consumed. One water barrel opened.
Day 5: I've been exploring the surroundings. This place is abandoned. I use the flamethrower to light my path and kill spiders. It's still burning without dimming. Food supplies looking good. First water barrel half empty.
Day 10: I've been out here for over a week now. The flamer keeps me warm. I use it to cook my food ratios. Half my food ratios are empty. I opened the second barrel of water.
Day 20: I have to start rationing - I'm running low on supplies. And it wont. stop. burning. I spend the time scribbling on walls and talking to myself, to keep me entertained.
Day 35: No food left. I've been using the Flamethrower to hunt rats. I roast them and eat them with my Axe. The heating wires of my tent stopped working, but that's fine. I've got my flamethrower. It keeps me warm. I think it talks to me. We had some nice conversation about the Kharaa yesterday.
Day 40: Ran out of water. I'm licking the condensation of some nearby pipes. It's enough to survive. The Flamethrower says I should watch out, something is happening out there. I think I will trust him for now.
It wont stop burning.
Day 43: Ran out of rats.
Day 50: I have to... switch it off... somehow... I started hitting it with a rock. It doesn't work. I tried dismantling it and nearly burnt my face... AND IT WONT STOP TALKING TO ME... and burning
Day 55: The Kharaa come... I can hear them in the vents... finally some MEAT...
Day 56: Had roasted skulk for lunch. Set up rudimentary bases with my welder. Waiting for the hit. Stopped trying to switch of the flamer. He says it's better like this. He says...says...
Day 60: [noise, animal sounds; the sizzle of burning gas]
Day 85: [Wall explodes. TSF Strikeforce A238 B (3) comes through the gaping whole. Takes unconscious subject with them.]
+++End Protocol+++
Subject is currently under psychological treatment and seems to have no big injuries. With him there was found: 1 (one) TSF Axe, 1 (one) TSF Combat Welder (100% fuel remaining), 1 (one) TSF standard Flamethrower (97% fuel remaining) and the burnt remains of Kharaa and rats.
Seriously, though. It does feel like you can burn forever :P
I didn't realize it had become a recurring joke, though^^
Comments
I'm not saying you're wrong, but your reasons should be reevaluated.
@james888 yes exactly. Shotgun>ft, but ft+shotgun>shotgun+shotgun. That's how support weapons are supposed to work.
You can kill a fade with a single LMG clip at a pretty good distance if you can follow him the whole time. That takes WAY more skill than to peg him with a shotgun two and a half times though, to the point of being completely unheard of even by professional players vs anything but a full on green.
The flamethrower is similar. You can do SOME damage by spraying it everywhere, but the damage concentrates to the center of the cone and at shotgun range. In other words, to use it to full effect you have to get as close as a shotgunner and then flawlessly track your target WHILE he is obscured by fire.
I'm not saying the FT or LMG is harder to use than the shotgun, but the absolute skill ceiling is actually higher with both weapons.
Revert fade to it's unique movement system and move shadow step to an upgrade, this will delay the fade ball long enough for the jetpack/exo marine rapetrain to get going.
@james888 What then would be the counter to that marine tactic other than strike where marines aren't? Everything should have some kind of counter play to it. Rooms aren't big enough for a lerk to snipe the FL or something of that sort. It's an idea though.
Aliens have all the tools available already. Marines don't have the tools, unless they have enough skill like in the euro finals, to end fade balls. You would take out a sg sg fl group same way you would a sg sg sg group. You just prioritize the fl first. He is already the easiest target. He is slower while on foot, limited damage how I described in the idea, and literally lights up.
I did not say make a fl unstoppable with a shotgun around. You just have to coordinate and kill the fl first. A shotgun rush with a fl takes coordination. It should take equal coordination to stop.
I tend to call it tracking aim
What are you doing necroing threads from half a year ago??
*facepalm* sigh.. this is like the 5th one this week
Vanilla forums has the audacity to mess with the likes of me :-w I aplaude it's courage, but I might have to fuel up the flamer tank for this one @IronHorse
And it's sunk...
Am i the only one using this: http://forums.unknownworlds.com/categories/natural-selection-2
I use this as well http://forums.unknownworlds.com/categories :P
But at least I got to drive me flamer tank once again... In a FLAME THROWER THREAD EY!
Why is it that so many people seem to be under the false assumption that the Flamethrower doesn't need reloading and never runs out of ammo? It most certainly does require reloading, and you most definitely CAN run out of ammo.
On topic: I greatly prefer the Flamethrower to the Grenade launcher or Shotgun. With Jetpack it becomes almost too easy to chase down fleeing Aliens and burn them to death. (or flee from rushing Aliens while burning them to death lol)
In my opinion it's always worth grabbing a Flamethrower as long as you can afford a Jetpack to go with it. When I can't afford both I'll either just use the LMG and save up, or resort to using the GL.
GLs are great because you can kill any supporting structure in 4 direct hits (1 clip) and harvesters take 8 direct hits (2 clips) and maybe a few pistol shots to kill, so you can effectively assassinate troublesome alien structures like this... Though if fades are out be aware they WILL target you as the single marine unable to defend itself
Skulks and Gorges would not stand a chance though.
Unsink has been done, you've got no proof!
And to add to the thread well not really... How bout dem flamethrowers ey, they're on fire last I heard!
You forgot "clutters the room with annoying extra flame textures which may or may not cause some stuttering".
Wait why is this on the front page?
Well, as long as you reload asap in safety, you will rarely run out of ammo in a fight - a single clip holds a lot of fuel.
Oh yeah, that was me... This is a recurring joke? Where?
Was this the start of it? https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/comment/2153431#Comment_2153431
I thought it was in the artwork fan fiction forums. I can't find the thread though.
That's the thread, somewhat above:
I didn't realize it had become a recurring joke, though^^
Btw, onos mount.
Onos mount did not gain traction. This needs to be resolved.