Let´s talk about ..sex.

LachdananLachdanan Join Date: 2003-06-04 Member: 16995Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Onos Posts: 92 Advanced user
1. i know that i know nothing (this post is way to early)
2. i say that i say nothing (this post is indeed clueless :) )

but the term "procedureally generated world" is giving me the cold chill down my spine, in combination with "exploring" of course.
Don´t make the mistake to understand games like minecraft or terraria as exploring games, they are craftergames.
The exploringpart in them often dumps down to head x amount of time in one direction to gather whatever amount of whatever "resource".
A nice set of optional directions, where each option represents the same answer "42".

Why not call it "random map generator" for a little bit of extrawork?
Basically what i want to say: Randomisation is way easier than you think, its just a Line (with branches).

Canread: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/528
Mustwatch: GGG about their random lvl generator
Conclusion: Its just a matter how to visualize it, different methods of visualisation can help you draw better lines.

What could we possibly generate with this ?
-cavesystems milling into hills or similar cavesystems connecting several craters
-a randomised underground-seabase starting hub, which could then be extended
-automated reef generation (similar to letting moleculemodells collapse on the ground)

Any other ideas ?

Randomlink:baltic-reef.de/#0001s451575_en
image

Comments

  • Dictator93Dictator93 Join Date: 2008-12-21 Member: 65833Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 657 Fully active user
    Interestingly enough, a cave system in procedurally generated worlds is only really doable with Voxels (at least.. more easily done). SO I can assume, if the game has caves... it will probably have a voxel terrain system.

    Also, your post reads confused but concerned. :D
  • godriflegodrifle Join Date: 2006-12-01 Member: 58815Members Posts: 188
    NS1 didn't have sex. NS2 has females and eggs. Subnautica needs to take it to the next step: Asexual mating cycles (jellyfish, starfish)
    Nazo
  • BicsumBicsum Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Members, Reinforced - Gold Posts: 1,014 Advanced user
    Lachdanan wrote: »

    The stuff he explains is pretty cool, but I couldn't take it anymore after the 1000th "um". At some point it just could not be unheard anymore. He's "um"ing while still speaking a word, it's amazing.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 3,432 Advanced user
    I'm still trying to make a connection between thread title and content.
    Yeah...I came and was disappointed.

    Make of that statement what you will.
    76561197996992409.png
    Twig
  • NeXuSNeXuS US Join Date: 2013-10-13 Member: 188681Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester Posts: 401 Fully active user
    edited December 2013
    I like sex. lol
    Post edited by NeXuS on
  • TwigTwig Australia Join Date: 2013-11-09 Member: 189225Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 115 Fully active user
    This post is about terrain generation, THIS IS NOT WHAT I CAME HERE FOR.
    Ghosthree3
  • SteveRockSteveRock Join Date: 2012-10-01 Member: 161215Members, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer Posts: 486 Advanced user
    edited December 2013
    I got everyone on the team watch that PoE video :) Thanks for the link! It was very informative and I will definitely be taking some ideas from it.
  • willow512willow512 Netherlands Join Date: 2013-12-17 Member: 190203Members Posts: 31 Fully active user
    Topic title does allow for some interesting flights of the fancy though. A consistent or semi consistent artificial life would be awesome. If you want to know more about an animal species you could shoot it with a tracker. And unless it gets angry and eats you on the spot you could then follow it through the ocean, and explore it's life cycle. Give your submarine some steamy windows while you observe it's mating behavior. All in the name of science of course. And then eventually see that the kids have inherited mommies blue eyes and pops dorsal fins.
  • LachdananLachdanan Join Date: 2003-06-04 Member: 16995Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Onos Posts: 92 Advanced user
    NS1 didn't have sex.
    Well, there were Gorges hiding in far away "victory-dc-vents".
    I'm still trying to make a connection between thread title and content.
    Irregardless.
    Package delivered.

    Added to willow´s idea:
    I actually find its necessary to promote "scout for resources" , his tracking-idea sounds interesting, forcing us to sneak into close range and tag a deepseacreature.
    Or drosseling down all energyconsumptions to bare minimum inorder to stay undetectable-matrixstyle to get close to tagging combines two required couldhave´s:
    1. Tagging/tracking to direct the exploration process, revealing required resources and
    2. to Slow down the moment of the Hunt, enabling us to spectate the fish infront of the sub.
    Taser/Tagger/Tracker would be the only thing i would wish from Xcom:EU
    image
  • willow512willow512 Netherlands Join Date: 2013-12-17 Member: 190203Members Posts: 31 Fully active user
    Most games just give you UPS quests, go there push that button, kill that monster, and hey presto your factory can produce pills. There's no real understanding. I'd like to see a game that requires a deeper understanding of the world you're in.

    I'd like to see the need to track and trace behaviors and consequences of behaviors. So you can immitate them. People who survive in the outdoors often immitate animal behaviors. Eat what the animals eat, and follow birds around to find where they drink.

    If creatures in the world have behavioral routines. (Like "Surface breather", "Agressive", "Curious"), Then they could have a routine like "Eats plant x." The plant could have qualities like "Deep diver (Consumable)". The fish is then a deep diver because it eats plant x.. And then if you convert that plant to a pill you'd gain "Deep diver" yourself! You'd have to be sure however that the same plant doesn't add "Agressive" or your fellow colonists might go berserk on you. :)

    If the plant had "Nutricious" as a quality this could cause the animals to be scaled a bit larger than it would otherwise be.

    You could track the whole thing on a species level you would not even need to track individuals. You can just assume "It's a yellow maned moonfish. Therefore it eats that plant and can dive deep." You'd have to observe creatures for longer periods to map their behaviors. Trackers could help if you're interested in a species, underwater cameras if you want to know who eats a particular seaweed. Or you could just follow a fish around in your mini sub.

    Procedurally generated animals would be a grouping of behaviors and consequences. A squid that feeds on bioluminescent weeds glows in the dark itself. A whale that feeds on it would also exhibit bioluminescence. Though maybe only in small patches.
    HarimauSoul_Rider
  • HarimauHarimau Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63250Members Posts: 3,883
    I think willow512 is hitting on the right idea. Behaviours (and animations that go with them) will determine this game's success (presuming it revolves around these creatures). For example, Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate, while not procedurally generated, the game revolves around understanding the monsters being hunted. There is only a small incremental character progression (by way of armour bonuses) - but immense player progression - as the player learns how a monster moves, attacks, where it is vulnerable, etc., tied with their own command of their own character and their weapons of choice: the difference in the effectiveness, success-rate and efficiency of the same character between a novice's hands and an expert's hands is tremendous. It's a remarkable game but it does take a while to get into. However, the same game shows that underwater battle is hard to do, and can be very frustrating, so Good Luck with that.

    I think a few things will make or break this game:
    - As just mentioned, creature behaviours and animations that are challenging, learnable and consistent, either on-the-whole or within a playthrough.
    - Getting underwater movement and battle done right (assuming there is battle), and a clear progression in a player's ability to navigate the depths (easy to learn, difficult to master).
    - Survival tension; perhaps the need to gather resources, and the trade-offs involved (larger caches of, or more valuable, resources, guarded by more dangerous creatures or hidden behind a harder navigation path); perhaps there are aggressive creatures that will actively seek you out; perhaps there are critical resources that involve chasing down and capturing/killing evasive creatures, etc.
    - Varied and interesting environments.
    - Drop-in/out co-op.
    - A goal... we can say that exploration is the goal, that exploration is the end; but that would be lying to ourselves, because in fact exploration is simply the journey towards our goals, exploration is the means to achieve the end. A game in which all you do is explore is not really a game, it is just a toy, a simulation, or a virtual tourism destination. People will buy the game, they'll try the game, if the world is interesting enough to explore, but they'll only play the game if there is some point.

    But that's just my advice and my opinion. You can do whatever you like.
    Suggestions: ! @ # $ %
    willow512
  • willow512willow512 Netherlands Join Date: 2013-12-17 Member: 190203Members Posts: 31 Fully active user
    Thanks Harimau
    Harimau wrote: »
    - Getting underwater movement and battle done right (assuming there is battle), and a clear progression in a player's ability to navigate the depths (easy to learn, difficult to master).
    How would you do this? I like the idea but I can't get beyond, point nose in direction... Move forward. With the possible complications required to avoid decompression sickness.
    Harimau wrote: »
    - Survival tension; perhaps the need to gather resources, and the trade-offs involved (larger caches of, or more valuable, resources, guarded by more dangerous creatures or hidden behind a harder navigation path); perhaps there are aggressive creatures that will actively seek you out; perhaps there are critical resources that involve chasing down and capturing/killing evasive creatures, etc.
    You could limit behaviors to depths. Making the shallow waters a friendlier place fauna-tically speaking... Then limit resources to depths. So you'd need to venture into more dangerous terrain to get ahead in your game.
    Harimau wrote: »
    - Drop-in/out co-op.
    I'd love it if colonists/colleagues could be picked up and played either by players or AI. The game could tie the player to one colonist or give him the ability to swap between them. Maybe you could only swap inside the colony when the two are together. Maybe you could swap all over the map. Maybe not at all. I suppose this depends on game balancing.
    Harimau wrote: »
    - A goal... we can say that exploration is the goal, that exploration is the end; but that would be lying to ourselves, because in fact exploration is simply the journey towards our goals, exploration is the means to achieve the end. A game in which all you do is explore is not really a game, it is just a toy, a simulation, or a virtual tourism destination. People will buy the game, they'll try the game, if the world is interesting enough to explore, but they'll only play the game if there is some point.
    I think the objective set out by the devs is "An underwater colony building and exploration game" Building your colony would be the end goal, and exploring would be the means.

    You could of course always impose outside win/lose conditions. Like "Produce me that vaccine" or: mine the superdeep nuclear ore. But I'd hope those to be optional.
    Harimau wrote: »
    But that's just my advice and my opinion. You can do whatever you like.
    That goes without saying, the devs will do what the devs feel best. ;)
  • JoseppeJoseppe Join Date: 2012-01-21 Member: 141497Members Posts: 283 Advanced user
    edited December 2013
    imagine a girl is talking to you this way:
    -i want to show you "unknown worlds"
    -and i want to play a game with you called "sub-NAUGHTY-ca"
    -its about sex

    and then she talks about "random level generation"... now you know how disappointed i am :D
    Post edited by Joseppe on
    8fnCz79.png 8fnCz79.png
  • willow512willow512 Netherlands Join Date: 2013-12-17 Member: 190203Members Posts: 31 Fully active user
    You sure, I personally feel a strange tingly feeling in my lower belly whenever anyone says the words "procedurally generated". I thought everyone had that?
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind you Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Members Posts: 1,684 Advanced user
    edited December 2013
    I'm still trying to make a connection between thread title and content.

    Im totally clueless too.

    EDIT: Also, isn't the title inappropriate for the forums?
    When life gives you lemons, throw it back and demand chocolate.


  • zbott105zbott105 Join Date: 2017-01-02 Member: 225902Members Posts: 40 Fully active user
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