Meeting place for competing teams

sconesscones Join Date: 2012-11-12 Member: 169867Members
Hello NS2 fans!

I am sorta new to the NS2 community, but have had the game since it came out.

I am wondering, is there a place where casual teams can meet and arrange matches? i know about ENSL and ESL of course, and players probably arrange matches in here too, but i can't seem to find a place, where teams/clans are able to arrange matches, without competing in official leagues like on ENSL.

The thing is: NS2 is a really teambased game, and fooling around on FFA servers really gets old, due to the lack of communication and teamwork. Which is why, me and some other players are starting up a clan, but we're not really into all the serious competitive stuff (yet), and teaming up on an FFA server doesn't really work well, due to teambalance etc.

We're simply requesting a place where we would be able to meet and have dialogues with other teams, about arranging clan wars etc.

This place could be as simple as a forum, specifically for arranging matches between teams. If there is no such place, i would be willing to get that up and running, if people in here think that it's a good idea.

Please let me know what you think

Thank you
Scones
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Comments

  • current1ycurrent1y Join Date: 2003-12-08 Member: 24150Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    edited December 2013
    Assuming you have a team already and are looking to play another team. Best is to go on ENSL.org, look at the teams who participated in the last season, look at their roster and add the leaders to your steam friends. Generally stuff gets going when member from team A asks a member from team B to scrim over steam.

    If it's just you and maybe a few friends check out ENSL.org gathers. You basically show up and wait for enough people to play and you pick teams and play.
    Reddit mumble also is a place you hang out and wait for enough people to be around to play. IP is - 74.86.55.132 port: 64738
  • Me9aMe9a Join Date: 2008-03-27 Member: 63981Members
    i see often some kind of pub buddys or teams some even use own (clan) tags on there names
    so it would be great if they would have an easy way to make there first steps into the pcws with good games.


    Some ideas:
    orangise a steam group for new teams (maybe only 2 captains/organisers per team should join).
    ask around which are good beginner teams to face first and ask there teamleaders to join.

    look for the lower ensl divison teams you will see after the first games that skill is indeed important but
    trained teamplay>>skill (unless the diffrence in skill is big)


    i know getting into ensl seems first harsh but i think its the best way to get into contact with competing teams,
    when they have finaly there ladder system in place on the ensl website it might even be better for new teams (eta unknowen) :(

    /offtopic/
    in the past of ensl (Season 1 and 2 and ns1 days) Teamcaptains where asking for pcws in an irc channel where most other captain and some players where connected.
    that stopped completly idk why and now all is happening with steam what is a lot more work cause everyone has to add most other captains to the steam friendlist and then ask everyone seperated instead of type into the irc chat channel: "searching pcw low" and everyone sees it direcltiy
    //offtopic end//
  • sconesscones Join Date: 2012-11-12 Member: 169867Members
    Thank you very much for your advice and insights guys. Me9a I will surely take your steam group suggestion to consideration, and i think it wouldn't hurt not to stop there, but also create several more ways for teams to communicate, in terms of forum, IRC, and VOIP server, etc. all put into one name. Like, NSCC (Natural Selection Clan Community) or something more clever.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    A lot of the comp players hang out in some mumble channel. Aus players do something similar. I don't know about Europe.
  • RoobubbaRoobubba Who you gonna call? Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11930Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    edited December 2013
    ENSL is the best place to start, you don't need to enrol in a season to get pcws/scrims. Also check out the Veteran forums here: LINKEH.
  • TheKarvaTheKarva Join Date: 2011-06-13 Member: 104251Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I personally h8 the steam friends list for finding games... i have a million friends and hard time keeping track of who's who and from which team. Adding your own nickname after their names helps out a bit, but once you go over 20 or so and people switch teams or quit ns2 it becomes a huge mess. I really miss the irc channel but it seems like in these modern times people forget what really works.
    Some sort of pcw/scrim page would really be cool if you ask me. It also takes a ridiculous amount of time to find games sometimes and you need to sit at your screen for hours to contact people.

    What i imagine is a page where you can't post anything else than "looking 4 game" and you choose time and date and how long the post should be alive. That way you can post 2h before you want to play a post that will stay for say 2h, or if you know you can play say next wednesday you put one for that and make it disappear after that wednesday. And teams could just check the page, see who's looking 4 action tonite, or this week and click it and send a message. This would of course require some sort of registration from atleast the team captain. Oh and then you put in some sort of skill lvl like oldschool irc style. "pcw 20cet skill mid [clan name]"

    If you really wanna make it cool you could add a function for casters to click the same post, add himself as a caster and then when the schedule is accepted you get a separate list of "games goin' down today" and even unregistered guys can then check out streams when they're bored or not playing.

    Maybe this could be implemented by someone to the ensl page, a separate pcw/scrim section.
    And of course i don't know what uwe has in store for their upcoming matchmaking system, sabot or whatever it was called.
    But this pcw/scrim organizing i feel is an issue, new teams have hard times finding games and "old" teams like us only play mainly the same guys over and over again due to the friends list and generally it being a tedious task adding friends and catching them online etc etc.

    People need practice for the ensl games and new teams need to get the hang of things before participating in ensl. And i guess some teams play for fun only. Gathers are not the same as trying your best with your own team :)

    I can only throw some ideas out there, I have no coding skillzz...
    Maybe there's some scheduling apps or pages where you could draw inspiration from? Doodle comes to mind but thats not really what we need for ns2, but you get the idea.
  • Omega_K2Omega_K2 Join Date: 2011-12-25 Member: 139013Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Also #ns2.gather and #ns2.search on quakenet irc
  • sconesscones Join Date: 2012-11-12 Member: 169867Members
    I'm glad people like the idea.
    What i imagine is a page where you can't post anything else than "looking 4 game" and you choose time and date and how long the post should be alive. That way you can post 2h before you want to play a post that will stay for say 2h, or if you know you can play say next wednesday you put one for that and make it disappear after that wednesday. And teams could just check the page, see who's looking 4 action tonite, or this week and click it and send a message. This would of course require some sort of registration from atleast the team captain. Oh and then you put in some sort of skill lvl like oldschool irc style. "pcw 20cet skill mid [clan name]"

    That pretty much sums up the idea i had ^^

    I think that this might be what we need, until they launch Organised Play Systems. http://unknownworlds.com/ns2/organised-play-systems/ and since we dont know when that will come out, this idea could work for a really long time.


    Thought i would quote another post on this forum, because it is relevant to this :)
    I think NS2 was made to be an esport game. It has all the requirement necessaries, what is the most needed right now is a community and a proper organization around this community.

    Let's be honnest, there are not a lot of players on NS2. Even if I think this game deserves more than an average of 1K players. And what the game need the most right now is not content, is not competition but players, a community. Now the question is why are there such a low number of players ?

    Today, NS2 offer only one possible kind of match : FFA. To be able to play the real game (6 vs 6) which is I think is the most interesting and fun mode, you need to find by yourself 5 other players to play with and 6 opponents. When you are a new player on the game, it's kinda impossible to do. To be honnest, FFA is fun but it gets borring quite fast. It helps you to learn about the game, to play better but it won't make people stay very long on the game (except gamers who felt inlove with the game).
  • simbasimba Join Date: 2012-05-06 Member: 151628Members
    http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/133287/ns2-pug-community-looking-to-play-more-organized-ns2-games

    If you're NA, a good portion of the NA community is active on this community mumble. A lot of teams use it as their team mumble as well. Teams do "scrims" or "Practice Clan Wars (PCW's)" daily against other teams. It's all about finding those other team contacts to arrange them with. Currently the best and most reliable way is to steam friend it. If the only teams available to scrim are way too experienced for it to be any fun or constructive for you, try suggesting splitting the teams 3 from each and doing a mix. Or if there are people waiting to start a PUG, ask if they want to make a mix to play you.
  • sconesscones Join Date: 2012-11-12 Member: 169867Members
    How many players is considered a team for a ns2 match?
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    5 field and a commander.
  • NeXuSNeXuS US Join Date: 2013-10-13 Member: 188681Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    scones wrote: »
    How many players is considered a team for a ns2 match?
    NSL matches are 6v6. However, a lot of teams have more than 6 members on their rosters for obvious reason. If teams are looking for expand their roster or add some new members, they usually post on ENSL website as well.
  • Me9aMe9a Join Date: 2008-03-27 Member: 63981Members
    edited December 2013
    you need 6 to play and in the best case some backup people (7-9people in total) because its hard to get 6 people together.
    TheKarva wrote: »
    .......
    totaly agreeing with you


    Lets face the possibility to improve:


    1 possibility:
    lets all join the steamgroup and replace the steam start-shortcut and steamautostart with the link to the steamgroupchat.
    that shortcut looks then like: "steam://friends/joinchat/103582791432157584"
    if you start steam then with that link you automatical join the groupchat of the steamgroup
    (what is from the steamgroup: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/ns2scrimnet what is sadly dead :( )


    2 possibility:
    an other possibility would be some kind of php script stuff what i first have to google brb on that


    3 possilbility:
    but the best option would be an if an matchsearching function could be integrated to the ensl.org website
    what should be in the new ensl.org website what we are waiting allready for nearly over 1 year :(


    because of the best possiblity not showing up and the 1st possibility not working the past shows it might be best to work on the 2nd possiblity and integrate it somehow with an link to the ensl.org website

    (the ensl website is anyway not rly informative for new teams)


    hope that helps
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited December 2013
    @TheKarva You know you can tag people into groups now right? The system kind of sucks but DOES work.

    EDIT: Here's my list as an example.
    Spoiler
    i7cjpvV.png

    EDIT2: I really wish people would still use IRC though. Thing is flawless!
  • SamusDroidSamusDroid Colorado Join Date: 2013-05-13 Member: 185219Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
    edited December 2013
    Matchmaking is coming soonish, so don't get too invested.
  • joshhhjoshhh Milwaukee, WI Join Date: 2011-06-21 Member: 105717Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    edited December 2013
    What Samus said. As for steam groups... it has all been tried before. The NS2 community seems to like networking with other teams more than using a LF PCW steam group system that I have seen other communities use. I tried making a steam group ages ago but that never really took off. No one really uses IRC Quakenet in this community.
  • male_fatalitiesmale_fatalities ausns2.org Join Date: 2004-03-06 Member: 27185Members, Constellation
    IRC was used so much in NS1, I never really understood why it died off. Only games that still use it are quake, tribes and wolf et.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    I think it died off because people entering the communities thought it was outdated so never used it. So everyone moved to newer things like steam chat.
  • sconesscones Join Date: 2012-11-12 Member: 169867Members
    SamusDroid wrote: »
    Matchmaking is coming soonish, so don't get too invested.

    How do you know it's coming soon?
  • joshhhjoshhh Milwaukee, WI Join Date: 2011-06-21 Member: 105717Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    Theres an official post from the Devs floating around here somewhere.
  • sconesscones Join Date: 2012-11-12 Member: 169867Members
    So, what is your idea of soonish? :)
  • Me9aMe9a Join Date: 2008-03-27 Member: 63981Members
    about matchmaking:
    Hugh wrote: »
    Earlier in the year, this system was hinted under the name 'Sabot.' Since then, various other priorities have gotten in the way of it being developed, tested and implemented. It is now scheduled, resources have been allocated to it, work has been done, and unless I don't do my job properly, it will see release in the medium term.

    The exact time frame for the release of this system is uncertain. Original plans called for a first stage, aimed at casual-competitive players, to be released at the very end of 2013. That now looks optimistic and I expect that release to occur some time in mid to late January, after the holiday break (which inevitably gums up development across all facets of all projects).

    In summary - The very weakness you have identified is being addressed.

    means to me wait 2 more months at least until it works properly
    lets get something started its better to have alternatives or show them an example of how it could be
    instad of sit back and wait all day.


    i bet the effort that can be saved in searching matches all day =is the same amout of work then= setting 1 system up properly


    for me the steamgroupchat seems the best if people are too lazy to use irc and ensl.org to slow to get something in place.....
  • TheKarvaTheKarva Join Date: 2011-06-13 Member: 104251Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    @TheKarva You know you can tag people into groups now right? The system kind of sucks but DOES work.

    This doesn't eliminate the fact that you have to ask each and everyone separately for a pcw, wait for them to answer or get a "i'll get back to you in 30". Suddenly you sit there with 6 separate windows open, multitasking for 30min until you finally get a pcw or not.

    on irc you'd just post one line, maybe do a bump after 15min if no-one replied or new guys joined in (who usually join in order to look for game or post themselves) and you'd get a pm and get things going. No need to babysit. Im not 16 anymore i haven't got time to sit gaming and chatting all night :D

    Irc was great, used it for DoD back in the days. Also it was great for having your own private channel for the team, you'd talk trash and discuss and you were able to have a topic for all the games when and where and who's able to play and keep track of things in general. But since nothing goes on in irc anymore our team also has moved to using friggin' facebook (omg) and just idling on mumble all evening. (we are having a holiday break right now though).

    I'm kind of guessing that "sabot" will be a matchmaking tool that only works at that instant when you got a few players and press look 4 game and it matches you with similar skilled guys and gets a 12man game going. This isn't really scheduling, as in "looking for game at 21cet" or "next wednesday @ 20cet skill low". This is something i think the comp needs with the scene being relatively small and you can't get evenly matched opponents at any time of day any day of the week. You have to plan games in advance for both to get 6 players at a certain time, the scene being also very mature and not everyone playing from afternoon to late night in one sitting every day.
    And will "sabot" somehow integrate with NSL or whatnot, where scheduling is mighty important?

    I'm just sad to see that we're stuck with steam chat. Yes it works, yes you can divide into groups etc to make things easier, but it just isn't as simple and effective as irc was. Maybe a "let's rush back to irc" thread in the comp section is in order? At least until sabot comes and saves the day?

    ***the examples i give here are only from my own experiences, maybe others have had a easier time with steam chat and getting pcw's.. And yes sometimes it goes smoothly, not raging here. But it's far from a good system if you ask me.
  • sconesscones Join Date: 2012-11-12 Member: 169867Members
    edited December 2013
    Me9a wrote: »
    about matchmaking:

    means to me wait 2 more months at least until it works properly
    lets get something started its better to have alternatives or show them an example of how it could be
    instad of sit back and wait all day.


    i bet the effort that can be saved in searching matches all day =is the same amout of work then= setting 1 system up properly


    for me the steamgroupchat seems the best if people are too lazy to use irc and ensl.org to slow to get something in place.....

    So you're suggesting that we try and do this thing until the matchmaking system releases?
  • sconesscones Join Date: 2012-11-12 Member: 169867Members
    TheKarva wrote: »


    I'm kind of guessing that "sabot" will be a matchmaking tool that only works at that instant when you got a few players and press look 4 game and it matches you with similar skilled guys and gets a 12man game going. This isn't really scheduling, as in "looking for game at 21cet" or "next wednesday @ 20cet skill low". This is something i think the comp needs with the scene being relatively small and you can't get evenly matched opponents at any time of day any day of the week. You have to plan games in advance for both to get 6 players at a certain time, the scene being also very mature and not everyone playing from afternoon to late night in one sitting every day.
    And will "sabot" somehow integrate with NSL or whatnot, where scheduling is mighty important?

    I must agree somewhat. I find it hard to believe that a matchmaking system for a game with a player pool of like 1k, will be able to find a 6man team a game against another 6man team very quickly, if they were to join the queue on a normal day. That is unless the system would match a 6man premade team against a 6man team with solo queuers, but i doubt that, and that would sorta suck. People who play on teams will have to find specific days with high activity in order to find a match.

    However, i think a system like this would severely increase game population, which will probably increase the player pool a lot.
  • TheKarvaTheKarva Join Date: 2011-06-13 Member: 104251Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Matchmaking will be generally good and awesome and much needed etc. I agree fully on that and think it will make more people stay for good/better games overall for casually jumping in to evenly matched games with your buddies or just finding people of your own level to play a great 6v6 with (the most rewarding experience if you ask me). However for comp and foremost for teams wanting to play other teams with a fixed lineup to practice for upcoming league games i don't see much changing. We can only speculate of course whats in store when sabot finally arrives.

    I still vote for reviving the irc channels and the activity there in general for easier search for pcw's and scheduling league games. Or a page that does the same but looks nicer if people really are put off by the dated look of irc. Admins, refs, casters, teamcaptains and fans should have one easy place to communicate.
    Maybe irc is not easily accessible from a newcomers perspective these days i suspect, "console generation" and all that, so maybe a clear page with all the right functions would be better. ENSL would be the right place, but it's already ridiculously hard to navigate the way it is now so the whole page would need a redo.

    I found this piece of treasure but it hurts my now tired head to figure it out
  • sconesscones Join Date: 2012-11-12 Member: 169867Members
    TheKarva wrote: »
    Maybe irc is not easily accessible from a newcomers perspective these days i suspect, "console generation" and all that, so maybe a clear page with all the right functions would be better.

    Exactly my thoughts. IRC may be great, but it's too old and complicated for newcomers, and i doubt that most people can be arsed to even download it. IRC is not a common PC program anymore. You dont see it on ninite or anything :)

    I like the idea of getting something out there, that is attractive and easily accessible for both veterans and casuals, where people can easily plan matches with other teams. Something plain and simple, but yes, also with all the right functions
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    It's really not complicated lol. Once you actually have the app installed it takes 2s to use properly.
  • sconesscones Join Date: 2012-11-12 Member: 169867Members
    edited December 2013
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    It's really not complicated lol. Once you actually have the app installed it takes 2s to use properly.

    Everything is too complicated for the modern casual gamer. IRC is not as user friendly as steam for instance, and a lot of people will not be bothered with something that they have to use more than 20 seconds to figure out. It's not so much the complexity of the program, but more the fact that people have to actually take proper initial and download it, unlike steam or a web forum. A lot of casual gamers dont even know what IRC is, and that scares a lot of people away, since they would much rather stay with something they know and feel comfortable with.

    Dont get me wrong. Bringing back the IRC is a good idea, but i think there is a reason why it suddenly died out
  • simple_simple_ Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188102Members
    Dont get me wrong. Bringing back the IRC is a good idea, but i think there is a reason why it suddenly died out
    IRC can be easily accessible via a webchat.
    Maybe this could be implemented by someone to the ensl page, a separate pcw/scrim section.
    I think that would be the best and most viable solution.
    If every team would regular enter the times they can and want to have matches, finding a match should be pretty easy, implementation-wise.
    Just my guess, I have know no Idea in what/with what the ensl page is realized.
    Also you have to find someone to implemented it, without knowing if it will be used.
    This doesn't eliminate the fact that you have to ask each and everyone separately for a pcw, wait for them to answer or get a "i'll get back to you in 30". Suddenly you sit there with 6 separate windows open, multitasking for 30min until you finally get a pcw or not.
    Its pretty annoying. I started just recently to organize pcws for my team. First you have to wait for every member of your own team to get back to you, which time and day works, tell that to the other team and wait again. If the other team wants to play an hour later, the hole fun starts anew.
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