Alternatives to surrender...
maD_maX_
Join Date: 2013-04-07 Member: 184678Members
Join Date: 2013-04-07 Member: 184678Members
Ok, so I hate surrender it's boring and anti climatic. That being said there needs to be a way to end games that are over. Up until recently my favorite has been the "mass suicide" where you recycle ip, beacon and all run to crevice/docking and jump together. Recently when the concede vote is 1 away (mine) I will inform everyone that Friendly fire will be enabled, then turn FF to 9999... Boom CC/ip/arms/players, everything goes up in smoke.
I think this ge needs some more sillyness and am wonder the oddest ways that people have seen a game end.
I think this ge needs some more sillyness and am wonder the oddest ways that people have seen a game end.
Comments
During the one-minute post-vote timer, the mod removes attack-slowing assets belonging to the surrendering team (sentries, mines, armories, whips, clogs, hydras, crags). In surrendering, the losing team has forfeit gimmicks that might slow the now-merciless attack of the winners. The mod also removes all but one command structure of the surrendering team and announces to the winning team the location of the last remaining command structure (typically that holding the commander, in main base).
If the winning team fails in that one minute to destroy that last remaining command structure, the surrendering team is declared the winner. It's a fun gimmick, but it's apparent who actually won the game. About once every six weeks (the server's full for 4-6 hours every night), you'll see a winning team fail to destroy the last command structure, such that the surrendering team "wins" -- and everyone has a chuckle.
WinOrLose can be pretty confusing and/or irritating when you first encounter it, but it's generally well received by TGNS regulars. It ends the game quickly while leaving a brief moment for the winning team to have closure without the rug being suddenly pulled out from under them.
There is nothing "climatic" about beating a defenseless opponent, or trampling a losing NS2 team - well, certainly not for the losing side. So, be a gentleman, suppress your primitive urges and accept his resignation with dignity like a good sport.
I've commanded aliens a lot, and quite frankly, there's a lot of games where I get responses like "Guys, X, down, Concede. PLEASE!" and Aliens switching to spec, then marine saying "Aliens, Concede plox."
My only regret is calling FatCat out on swapping sides, cause I'd love to see his reaction when we won that.
And that's common. (For me anyway... Once every marathon session) I've come across coordinated teams that can revive the team at another tech point. Marines are great at turtling, but the Aliens are the ultimate cockroach. Yeah, Concede if there's no chance for survival, I agree with Kamamura... But if there's a chance, or there's two tech points still in control, don't start the vote. That's foolish.
Mines.
I wish the enemy team could do something like 10 - 25% damage or something, so that it was at least somewhat interactive for both teams, not just the one.
As sometimes waiting a full minute unable to do anything feels like a bit longer of an ending than if a typical concede function were to be used. (I love that mod more, for the record)
Played on this today. When i thought the game should end the plugin kicked in. I thought it was automated
The mod idea isn't bad but not complete in my opinion.
The surrendering team vote should propose a challenge to the opposing team.
-If they accept : let's go for a special ride. The challenging team would have a handicap, while the challenged tries to finish in time.
-If they don't accept: immediate surrender.
@IronHorse Adding any kind of attack to the surrendering team would exacerbate an already existing problem in which winning team players too often target opponent players instead of the last remaining command structure, further drawing out the now-shortened endgame. I guess I could say "so what? let 'em all shoot each other and let the countdown end the game", but I like that WinOrLose typically pseudo-keeps that stock endgame feel of a "base" getting destroyed. I've got an idea for incentivizing the winning team into moving more quickly. Stay tuned.
But you don't expect to get rewarded so in chess or fencing - in NS2, you expect to be able to use the overwhelming advantage you've earned to destroy sh*t!
This is the arena! We come here to be entertained! We come to see a spectacle! We come to see BLOOD!
I dunno. I tried to think what makes concede any different from a GG ending the match in StarCraft 2, and all I could come up with was that it's unexpected. In SC2, you can usually see the GG coming, after a decisive battle or so, but in NS2, if you're just doing some menial task you're not necessarily aware of how the game progresses, not aware of what was THAT ONE THING that made the difference.
The game just ends. Why? The opposing team had a reason to end it. What was it? I don't know. Maybe you should ask them? ...talk about a bummer.
"we had no comm", "comm left", "we had no teamwork", "comm recycled everything", "nobody had res for anything" -you get to know the reason YOU won from your OPPONENT. There's something wrong about that. It's your victory, you bloody well should know why you won.
Isn't a satisfying, dominating win, where you end the game by absolutely raping the enemy team and laugh about their frustration, the only real reason we all play this game?
And as this is so entertaining, can't we get more threads like this? This is such an underrepresented, yet fascinating topic!
I find something odd/wrong with a person on the losing team being so out of touch with the round at hand that they don't know they are losing and why.
What? No I was talking about someone on the winning team.
You're exaggerating the extent of a "dominating win", besides, considering the amount of stacking, considering the urge A LOT of players feel to join the team he/she thinks has better players in the start, considering all that, it's kinda rich to be blaming someone for wanting 1 minute of using an advantage they've EARNED when a game ends.
Oops, guess I need more coffee..
To be honest I feel the point still stands for any non-green (in spirit or name color) on either team that has been in the round for a decent amount of time. Exception maybe being the opposing comm leaving if you aren't the kind of person who checks the scoreboard to see who the other team's commander is.
But... if people really stack all the time on purpose (what they don't), why should they then have one minute of -aditional- raping time against a completely frustrated team full of bad players? And do you want to force the losing players to keep playing the game, for example block Alt-F4 and block the Windows task manager, or how exactly do you want to keep them from quitting the stacked game before the "raping minute" is over?
questions upon questions...
I didn't say people stack all the time, come on. And I wasn't justifying raping the opposing team, I was putting it in perspective, along the lines of HOW NOBLE we should expect an average player to be.
Also I didn't present a solution. I just used the "1 minute" thing to represent the time when you have an overwhelming advantage.
Edit: If I had to present a solution, it would be some kinda mini-game like the one presented above.
Say marines concede - they have to survive for 1 minute before they will all be teleported to safety. They don't respawn. The teleport animation takes 3 seconds, they can die while it happens. Aliens still win the game if they escape, but they can get a little satisfaction out of that. Also becomes a game of who can hide the best.
Sounds better than concede to me... I'm sure UWE devs can come up with something even better.
Long games can be a lot of fun ( look at NS1, could go on for hours! ) IF there is a way for marines to be able to turn things around.
I think an indirect and realistic solution might be to bring back the battery powered structures.
This makes it a lot easier for marines to build ninja phasegates. This encourages marines to move out of the last base instead of camping there.
True, most of the time you know why and when they concede. But it's not rare you get those "what? why did they concede?", is it?
It really isn't rare. To be fair my statement was meant as more of "it shouldn't happen" than a "it doesn't happen". Far too many people playing Natural Call of Selection Duty 2 around sometimes. But i'm just reaching my cynical phase I guess.
Side note how you perform seppuku with an axe might be tricky..,
See i'm less concerned about incentives for the winning team - i want something to do as the losing team, anything, really.. hell.. give me harmless snowballs to throw at their faces or something.
Doing nothing for a whole minute as a losing team can be more frustrating than an instant "Aliens lose" banner on my screen.
So i agree with allowing one side to destroy the base.. i love the mod for this reason.. it brings back the climactic and satisfying ending of destroying the enemy's base. Dont change this part.
But if there's anything that can be given to the losing team, interaction wise.. it'd be an even better mod.
This mod does a great job turning Concede into something fun for the winning team, and i bet we can make it "less painful" for the losing team, too.
Maybe all aliens instantly spawn as gorges at the hive with babblers and bait ball only. (no gorge spit or heal)
Bonus Points for Yakety Sax playing the whole time.
What is or isn't expected is up to the individual players. A chess player may also argue that he wants to checkmate, but most often he does not - why?
Because a true sportsman finds joy only in the struggle and in the moment he outsmarts his adversary. Once the moment is gone, once one side loses means for further opposition, the joy is gone also. It's true that some players are stubborn and play to the end, but such game is only similar to parking your car - you must be careful not to bump into anything, but other than the vigilance required, it's intellectually a trivial task.
Similarly, a true NS2 player should IMO seek joy in the struggle of as balanced teams as possible. Demolishing a deserted base of a hive is a menial work suitable for a ham-fisted lumberjack, not a task for a fighter or commander.
And if you don't know why you won or lost, you probably did not pay attention, and so instead of seeking cheap thrill of easy victories, you should maybe work on your ingame awareness a bit more. In every sport, an opponent sometimes walks away from a game without clear reasons. Sometimes he loses the will to fight, sometimes he is just disappointed with himself, I even saw guys who swept the pieces away angrily, and even added insults. Pity for them, for they made few friends, as did those who reveled in their victories too much and bloated over them. A bit of empathy, even a few words of encouragement are signs of a good sportsman, and I have met players who I have lost to as well as won over during the years, but thing remained - I was always happy to meet them over the board, and I knew the feeling was mutual.
The anti-climatic ending of a side conceding in NS2 can be very abrupt. One second, your team is fighting to take down that PG foothold / crag nest the other side has near your base, and everyone is pushing very hard to maintain control of that area (really tense game play - and the trade mark of an awesome game of NS2), then suddenly the tides turns and the point of contest is overran by one team. So, you are ready to deal the death blow that you fought so hard get (kill hive, take over the tech point, pack kill the CC ...). Suddenly, the game informs you have won because the other side conceded.
I guess my point is, the thing I would like to avoid is having this massive high of just winning a hotly contested area, and being in the zone, ready to take on the world, then suddenly being told that its over, when you want to continue your high and win the game by taking out the Hive / CC. So, I do like the idea of 1 minute free time to kill the CC / Hive. It will bring closure and bring me down from that high slowly without feeling something our team worked so hard for can be given so easily.
The "game" is usually over long before the last hive/cc is destroyed. And when the game is over, I lose all interest in carrying it through, whether on the winning or losing side.
Then I get the occasional whine that "I've seen comebacks from this situation." Might happen (usually if many good players on the winning team quit), but 99% of the time, it won't happen. And it's not worth my time at that point anyway.