ANOTHER Constructive Way To Make NS2 Fun Again
coolitic
Right behind you Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Members
Right behind you Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Members
Im not sure if this would go in ideas or discussion, so I took a guess. If ironhorse is reading this right now, I could swear he thinks im going to say my favorite solution "revert to 249". Well, since he gets mad at me when I say my perfect solution, I wont make a thread all about it (sort of). There are many problems with NS2 right now. For example, early game lasts 3 minutes and mid game lasts 5-10 minutes while late game lasts 30-40 minutes. You basically skip early and mid game and go straight to late game. Honestly, any1 can tell something is wrong there. This used to be more even.
Grenades are easily spammable and cheap and welders are practically free. Before a certain build, marines used to be a squad of steadily moving soldiers with fortifications, there was no strafe-jumping and evasive maneuvers were done by jetpacks which now can be used for long time before needing to be recharged. Exos were slow-moving tanks (though not too slow) that would defend bases and lead a siege on a hive. Now they move faster and have lost all their tankiness (I once solo'd an exo as a skulk before and destroyed it when it was at full hp). Basically, marines were supposed to stick together as a squad and would often move from place to place to deal with attackers and it was really fun to defend against an alien invasion or to lay a siege on their hive.
Aliens used to be a lot more fun too. Each life form was more expensive (lerk 30, fade 50, onos 75) but each upgraded life form had more importance. Lerks were harder to kill but played it's role as a support flyer (both offensively and defensively) where as now they are a bit easier to kill and now it bites rapidly. Fade was a very special life form. It was more evasive (less tanky too) so it could dash quickly but if marines trapped you or you took too many risks, you would be put down. Fades were good at taking down marines with hit-and-runs and had some ability to manipulate battles. Now the fade is much less skillfull because NS2 devs thought it would be a good idea to trade evasiveness/skill for tankiness. Onos only came later in the game and getting it was a great thing to do (and so was taking it down). It was hard to get and wasn't OP either. It basically was like an alien version of the exo but was melee and was also faster. Stomp was often useful to initiate a battle and was useful in making an exit. Even though it was tanky a little fast, it wasn't OP and did require some planning/skill. You couldn't just ride into battle with an onos because the marines would focus you down easily and were capable of chasing you because the onos is a pretty big target to shoot at. Onos was best played with a team (a gorge was it's best friend) and both using it and killing it was like an achievement.
The game I describe here was much more fun than the NS2 we play now. I bought this game for the feel that I described here and it would be wonderful if that kind of feel could be brought back to NS2.
I would love to hear any constructive criticism you guys may have.
Grenades are easily spammable and cheap and welders are practically free. Before a certain build, marines used to be a squad of steadily moving soldiers with fortifications, there was no strafe-jumping and evasive maneuvers were done by jetpacks which now can be used for long time before needing to be recharged. Exos were slow-moving tanks (though not too slow) that would defend bases and lead a siege on a hive. Now they move faster and have lost all their tankiness (I once solo'd an exo as a skulk before and destroyed it when it was at full hp). Basically, marines were supposed to stick together as a squad and would often move from place to place to deal with attackers and it was really fun to defend against an alien invasion or to lay a siege on their hive.
Aliens used to be a lot more fun too. Each life form was more expensive (lerk 30, fade 50, onos 75) but each upgraded life form had more importance. Lerks were harder to kill but played it's role as a support flyer (both offensively and defensively) where as now they are a bit easier to kill and now it bites rapidly. Fade was a very special life form. It was more evasive (less tanky too) so it could dash quickly but if marines trapped you or you took too many risks, you would be put down. Fades were good at taking down marines with hit-and-runs and had some ability to manipulate battles. Now the fade is much less skillfull because NS2 devs thought it would be a good idea to trade evasiveness/skill for tankiness. Onos only came later in the game and getting it was a great thing to do (and so was taking it down). It was hard to get and wasn't OP either. It basically was like an alien version of the exo but was melee and was also faster. Stomp was often useful to initiate a battle and was useful in making an exit. Even though it was tanky a little fast, it wasn't OP and did require some planning/skill. You couldn't just ride into battle with an onos because the marines would focus you down easily and were capable of chasing you because the onos is a pretty big target to shoot at. Onos was best played with a team (a gorge was it's best friend) and both using it and killing it was like an achievement.
The game I describe here was much more fun than the NS2 we play now. I bought this game for the feel that I described here and it would be wonderful if that kind of feel could be brought back to NS2.
I would love to hear any constructive criticism you guys may have.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
A couple of weeks ago when the classic gamemode was played, it felt like an entirely new game, and it was actually a lot more fun. For NS2, 249 was certainly the best game state. Although up until reinforced, it was still a good game.
All of your problems exist only in your own head. You enjoy living in denial.
I think lerks are ok. Fades feel too 'heavy' so I play a lerk more often now. Onos is fine imo.
Even though there is issues, I feel that overall NS2 is improving.
I would like to ask you to be constructive as assuming I live in denial is false and wrong.
At the bottom of my "rambling" I state that the devs shuld bring back the overall "feel" that I described.
-If the rounds skip to late game so fast, then how come we don't see more webs, xeno or bone wall?
Many people (and I) want the the biomass rec. of webs reduced, but surely if the end game came so fast they didn't need it?
-Marine upgrades changed a tad, in regards to your exo, do you have any idea what armor level they had? I believe the scaling changed so that A3 was more, but A1 was less. Also, if it was a noob exo (and you pro you I'm sure) then all the firepower in the world can't save him.
-That said I don't like fast moving, weak exos either...
-Your way to make NS2 fun again. My main concern. What if aliens die? With powerful high tier lifeforms dead and unshakeable marine encampments I'm not sure... But what about the start? Slow powerful marines who can't run anywhere in time will get quickly wiped out, but not as fast as skulks that have to fight them. You really don't say how this slows the start and end game down, deals with fadespolsion or teamstacking, just what you want it fell like.
-Which is nice, I mean, who doesn't want all the cool stuff they changed
-Revert to X isn't a perfect option anymore either, because it brings back a host of problems, and removes good stuff (optimization, Marine spiriting)
-Rather than say "lets throw away everything made so far and go back...... here, say the few things you like/love and use what they have improved, and with luck maybe something will come back.
Like whips and tossing nades.
Or dare I say my precious nano-shield?
What are you considering Early/Mid/Late game? To me, Early Game is that initial rush for RT's, which takes from 5-7 minutes. Mid Game is when the sides are established, and the Tech really gets pumping out. Assuming it's not a lop-sided slaughter, the end of this will have us 15 minutes into the game. So, around the same time as the Early game. Late game is just as long as it takes for one side to realize they've got the upper hand, and wipe out the other side. So this is entirely variable.
I'll pass on quoting over the rest of your "criticism", as it's essentially ludicrous. Are you sure all marines didn't strafe jump at 249? Or was it just you? I know I did, and I know it saved me a lot.
How do the changes of the lerk affect his role? Why are rapid bites, and less health a problem? He's still largely support, but early game can have him in the role of an assassin, similar to that of a fade. he's more useful if you can play him. This is the exact same as 249. He's just more efficient early game, and the players have adapted.
Get yourself a fully upgraded Fade, yep, up to 8 Biomass and try and tank with him. Take a video and show us how this is possible against experienced players. Again, the Fade has become more efficient due to the changes with Vortex, enforcing a stronger role as a spook/assassin. I'll understand that the fade had changed after 249, but again, he is more efficient.
The Onos, with the exception of Bone Shield, is unchanged. And Bone Shield is extremely risky to do. I've hunted down numerous Onos who decided to use it, and I've taken down more that haven't decided for it. Onos has become much more defensive, but his ability as an offensive unit has remained largely unchanged. No Onos can survive a team of 6 marines for long. If you see this, I advise you to take a video and show us. I'm sure the Comp Teams would like to know your methods. For comparison, show us how long you last with, and without a team or gorges healing and bile-ing, as you seem to infer that Gorges do not help.
Furthermore, if we're looking solely at the cost of each lifeform, Consider this, A fully upgraded Onos was 75? Now it's 84pres. The Traits for each lifeform cost resources now. A gorge fully upgraded is 11. Have you played since 249?
As for the Exos being this unstoppable force, I actually find it more difficult to take an Exo alone as a skulk after 249. They're cheaper, faster, and are part of the main group. His teammates keep a closer eye on him as a result of his increased mobility, and I am unable to sneak in back and clean them out as a Phantom Skulk. Furthermore, Do you realize they only have 415 base Integrity? As a skulk, that's 6-7 bites. A Khammander using Bone-wall to isolate an Exo means that it's dead, and this is unchanged from 249. I've done this time and time again before, and after the Biomass changes, and I've laughed every single time I've seen it.
Grenades, welders? They help Marines establish a foothold early game. No longer is a Zerg-Rush that knocks the IP down to 10% a success. Should Grenades be researched, Marines have the ability to break a gorge infested stalemate easier. The Pulse Grenade messes with Aliens and almost kills skulks. Clusters are for cleaning up Gorges, and the Nerve gas is for softening up aliens before they come at you. Marines require more thought now, and this is what we want, no? As an Alien, Ambush the Marines. The Pulse Grenade does considerable damage to the user too, and A Marine's Cluster Grenade has next to no use up close, and the Nerve gas is to slow to affect you in a panic situation. Yes, I'm telling you how to play an alien. Ambush, Ambush! AMBUSH! Take them by surprise and freak them out. The Grenades mean next to nothing when you're in their face.
Both iterations of NS are extremely team oriented. The marines require to stick together and protect eachother. There is no "Ultimate standalone unit" on the marines side and there never was. Aliens have independence, but still require strong communication. They are strong on their own, but their strength multiplies to insane numbers when they work together. This is as it was in every version of NS2 I've seen.
Without proof of your problems adversely affecting the game in a negative light, It may be safe to assume you're merely blowing hot air.
(P.S The game is much more fun/balanced post 249)
That was supposed to be a joke having to do with ironhorse and he suggested I make a detailed thread, which I did.
Not even trying to be funny. I really don't understand your thought process.
K lets get back on topic.
Sorry if I wasn't clear, that's what I meant, just the gameplay and balancing overhaul that many ppl quit ns2 for.
Actually with the biomass system it makes the hives pretty important because it's the hives that give the biomass. I don't think you really know what you're talking about.
Actually now you unlock class upgrades which are hard coded on the biomass scale. If you lose a hive and all of its biomass you will have to replace the hive and work back up to the correct biomass number to get your upgrades back. You don't just plop down a hive and bam there it is. In the older builds if you had a hive with all the 2 hive upgrades researched and it was destroyed, all you would have to do is rebuild it and you would get them all back, only 40 res. Now you have to build a new hive (40), upgrade first biomass (20), and upgrade the second biomass (30) to get back to where you were. It makes losing a single hive even worse than before. A fully biomassed hive is such a res sink its crazy and must be defended.
Also Im not sure but after 250 (or another build after that) it seems that res comes much easier.
The fact that you appear to be having direct discussions with Ironhorse regarding your "criticisms" is the funniest part of this thread.
Great, now you can be sure to "protect" your biomass by keeping babblers, shadowstep, and bilebomb in play after you sink 50 res into your first hive. Also it now shows that you really don't command at all, as res doesn't come "easier" now. It just comes differently. Personal res is accumulated about the same way as before, team res the same. Its just not in 5 res chunks if you hold 5 nodes.
Plz be polite and fyi I still play the game and have never said i did not play the game. What I meant was that most of the important can be obtained by biomass level 3.
Again I remind you to be polite and constructive.
We need a moderator to step in. Pointless, spammy thread started by none-other than a troll. You still hadn't replied to my post in which I went over every "issue" you brought up, coolitic.
Can we let this thread die now? I detest seeing it in the top 5 on the main page of the forums.
Honestly. That's all it is to you. A number. You've clearly demonstrated in this thread and in others that behind that number you can't even articulate a difference in mechanics. For better or worse regardless.
This is my favourite.
That was before I found out they were abbreviations