For additions to the game that might be logical.
For balance changes that makes no sense, as you have clearly shown in this thread. If you do not have a good understanding of most of the game and its mechanics, your just not going to be able to provide feedback of much value on specifics.
Whats more amusing about this thread to me is how you cite game length as something that has decreased, when quite often now I see games lasting even longer than 249. People just concede quicker now :P
So? How does a group of marines wielding grenade launchers manage to make it across the map and attack an unmanned, but fortified position without even a single alien player noticing them and reporting this information to their team? They might have a phase gate nearby negating travel time, which brings up another point about how marines managed to make it there to construct a phase gate undisturbed in order to even launch that assault in the first place with aliens failing to respond for well over 30 seconds.
Grenade launchers cost 10+30 tres to research, and 15 pres each. Whips cost 10 tres a pop. How many whips do you think you actually need at a key location to stall marines long enough for the players on your team to actually respond and kill the attackers? Probably not TEN.
Which brings up the point yet again about why you're even trying to make arguments about balance when you can't even be bothered to research facts as simple as resource costs yourself. Roadmaps as you suggested are a nice idea, but not when headed up by players who can't even do the simplest fact checking.
Derp, I feel like an idiot now. Either way, the marines can use there rifles, take down couple defenses, run to safe position, rinse and repeat by cycling between bases.
So, why is it that in every single one of your scenarios you assume that aliens are complete idiots and will not respond with their far superior map mobility and either murder these marines that are derping around killing whips, or take advantage of marines being out of position and just go kill stuff that's actually important like extractors and phase gates?
Even if these whips do no damage at all, they are wasting enough of the marine team's time and resources to be valuable. Gets even better if the whips are mature and have bombard, creating windows of vulnerability as marines will need to be switching to welders and constantly repair armor if they don't want to be easy kills.
Are you serious? Webs come much too late in the game to be of practical use, and clog walls are potentially even more sketchy than whips are because of hand grenades. Whips can also gain a lot more potential value because they can easily be re-positioned inside a room for free and catch marines off-guard.
Which goes back to what I said of grenades being way too cheap to buy. Clogs still work imo and whips should fulfill the role of defending not stalling imo. (if it just stalls, it isnt much of a defense structure)
Defending and stalling are different words for the same basic concept of keeping enemies away from important locations or structures. Even the most heavily defended location will break if enough time and force is applied with the correct timing.
What would you suggest that wouldn't make them wastes of resources or obscenely OP? Tres expenditure on aliens is already very high as is without whips being ungodly expensive.
So...you want to rebalance the game from the ground up? Again?
What makes you think you're qualified to form an argument around this when you've already made it abundantly clear that you don't even know how the game works as it is right now, and you make balance suggestions and craft scenarios based on the idea that one team is going to be a bunch of idiots?
Im not qualified. But, seeing that they have done it before and failed (at least imo), I suggest they do it again, but this time they should try using feedback from most of the players of ns2 rather than just the beta testers.
A good number of beta testers were people who wanted the game to change hence getting feedback from them would cause the game to change. Prior to 250 however, most players were fine the way the game was.
It doesnt have to be that team, but in general i see many deep-rooted problems in NS2 that require deep-rooted changes.
How can you possibly see these so-called 'deep-rooted' problems when you have already shown that you don't know how the game works post-249?
When you get incredibly basic things wrong like the biomass system and how much grenade launchers and whips cost, why should anything you 'see' hold any clout?
Great way to make your opinion completely invalid from the get-go.
Now I know not to read any further.
Please read everything before making assumptions.
I can make an assumption before reading everything. That's what makes it an assumption and not an informed opinion. However, in this case, I do think it's an informed opinion, because there's enough information in that little quoted statement alone to more or less accurately judge the level of intelligent comment that's about to take place in the proceeding material. It is possible, that you were just kidding, but the number of disagrees on your post determined that's probably not the case.
EDIT:
Ok I read it, and it seems I was more right than I could have possibly imagined. I think some of the comments here (e.g. Therius's initial reply to the thread) more or less cover anything I would have to say, and all seem to be dismissed as 'unconstructive' by you yet they're just telling it how it is. This is one of those times when I can't tell if somebody's either a giant troll, or legitimately retarded. Neither possibility, nor this thread, really interests me.
How can you possibly see these so-called 'deep-rooted' problems when you have already shown that you don't know how the game works post-249?
When you get incredibly basic things wrong like the biomass system and how much grenade launchers and whips cost, why should anything you 'see' hold any clout?
While I do admit I rarely was comm after 250, I did some research and found my mistakes and please excuse my occasionally poor memory. Basically what I meant to say was that game progression which also ties in with res income/costs is 1 major thing imo that needs improvement but this kind of change I know is hard to make due to its deep-rooted nature
GISPBattle GorgeDenmarkJoin Date: 2004-03-20Member: 27460Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester, Forum staff
edited November 2013
Guys dont abuse the flaging of posts, if you disagree on something, use the disagree button.
And since this has now went to far off-topic and turned into a pointless enterwebs argument... Tread closed.
Comments
For balance changes that makes no sense, as you have clearly shown in this thread. If you do not have a good understanding of most of the game and its mechanics, your just not going to be able to provide feedback of much value on specifics.
Whats more amusing about this thread to me is how you cite game length as something that has decreased, when quite often now I see games lasting even longer than 249. People just concede quicker now :P
So? How does a group of marines wielding grenade launchers manage to make it across the map and attack an unmanned, but fortified position without even a single alien player noticing them and reporting this information to their team? They might have a phase gate nearby negating travel time, which brings up another point about how marines managed to make it there to construct a phase gate undisturbed in order to even launch that assault in the first place with aliens failing to respond for well over 30 seconds.
Grenade launchers cost 10+30 tres to research, and 15 pres each. Whips cost 10 tres a pop. How many whips do you think you actually need at a key location to stall marines long enough for the players on your team to actually respond and kill the attackers? Probably not TEN.
Which brings up the point yet again about why you're even trying to make arguments about balance when you can't even be bothered to research facts as simple as resource costs yourself. Roadmaps as you suggested are a nice idea, but not when headed up by players who can't even do the simplest fact checking.
Even if these whips do no damage at all, they are wasting enough of the marine team's time and resources to be valuable. Gets even better if the whips are mature and have bombard, creating windows of vulnerability as marines will need to be switching to welders and constantly repair armor if they don't want to be easy kills.
What makes you think you're qualified to form an argument around this when you've already made it abundantly clear that you don't even know how the game works as it is right now, and you make balance suggestions and craft scenarios based on the idea that one team is going to be a bunch of idiots?
Great way to make your opinion completely invalid from the get-go.
Now I know not to read any further.
A good number of beta testers were people who wanted the game to change hence getting feedback from them would cause the game to change. Prior to 250 however, most players were fine the way the game was.
It doesnt have to be that team, but in general i see many deep-rooted problems in NS2 that require deep-rooted changes.
Please read everything before making assumptions.
When you get incredibly basic things wrong like the biomass system and how much grenade launchers and whips cost, why should anything you 'see' hold any clout?
I can make an assumption before reading everything. That's what makes it an assumption and not an informed opinion. However, in this case, I do think it's an informed opinion, because there's enough information in that little quoted statement alone to more or less accurately judge the level of intelligent comment that's about to take place in the proceeding material. It is possible, that you were just kidding, but the number of disagrees on your post determined that's probably not the case.
EDIT:
Ok I read it, and it seems I was more right than I could have possibly imagined. I think some of the comments here (e.g. Therius's initial reply to the thread) more or less cover anything I would have to say, and all seem to be dismissed as 'unconstructive' by you yet they're just telling it how it is. This is one of those times when I can't tell if somebody's either a giant troll, or legitimately retarded. Neither possibility, nor this thread, really interests me.
While I do admit I rarely was comm after 250, I did some research and found my mistakes and please excuse my occasionally poor memory. Basically what I meant to say was that game progression which also ties in with res income/costs is 1 major thing imo that needs improvement but this kind of change I know is hard to make due to its deep-rooted nature
Who's assuming? It's evident from your posts.
And since this has now went to far off-topic and turned into a pointless enterwebs argument... Tread closed.