Pro players - Competitive play Vs Pub Play

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  • xDragonxDragon Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-04-04 Member: 149948Posts: 1,954 Fully active user
    ^ you must be one lucky person, I'm not going to detail all the stuff that has happened to me, especially on KKG, but the public's opinion of the 'evil competitive' players is nothing new, but does get tiring to deal with.
  • TovaTova Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-12-26 Member: 176254Posts: 41
    Please stop making strawman type arguments to dodge a legitimate grievance. Noone is telling people they cannot play or that they are evil for playing.
    KingKahunaMasterBat
  • LocklearLocklear [nexzil]kerrigan Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, WC 2013 - Shadow Join Date: 2012-05-01 Member: 151403Posts: 1,337 Advanced user
    edited September 2013
    KingKahuna wrote: »
    Chikun wrote: »
    The only thing that pisses me off in pubs are when the people who had insane KDR's the last round join the same team round after round. I'm all for getting stomped every once in a while, its good for the ego and a good learning experience, but seeing this level of cowardice from "competitive players" gives everyone a bad taste in their mouth. One look at the team setup and everyone knows what's going to happen the next round and when you destroy the hope of winning or any optimism, you destroy the server population.

    Preach all you want about "only getting better by playing people better than you". I'm a firm believer of it, but until other "competitive players" start calling out others on this behavior you will always have a small amount of disdain from others.

    You sir, are absolutely correct. I've been stepping out saying this for a long long time. You can see the arrogance, and disrespect from those here who have posted. Not all are classless, that's the good news.

    Seriously? Disrespectful? All I said was have some backbone if you play a multiplayer game like this.. When I came into this game I would literally get destroyed in pubs with KDR's: Like 3-15 etc.

    I was drawn to the people that didn't get destroyed in pubs. Those who were better and I tried to learn from them.

    It's pretty simple and applies to many things in life. From a server operator standpoint I understand why you think it's terrible to have a good player in your server threatening to empty it. But that's fine - no argument here.. just skillban if that's what you're afraid of.

    But the principle still stands.. people with any amount of backbone are drawn to playing against and with better players. In order to improve.. and enjoy themselves more.

    Those who are afraid of a challenge or just want casual fun (very small challenge or none at all) will obviously have the other attitude that you seem to have.

    Problem is.. NS2 is a challenge - if you want to be proficient at the game it will challenge all of your FPS skills and some.. so like I said..

    Get backbone or go home. (or stop bitching, that works too)
    "If great visuals brings players in, great gameplay gets them to stay." - Valve
    rayzouZalamael
  • KingKahunaKingKahuna Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2008-03-23 Member: 63944Posts: 23
    edited September 2013
    Syknik wrote: »
    In all honesty, when i do play on public server, i tend to try to play on the KKG servers. I do get nagged on by some of the public players because of my KDR and whatnot, but i've never had an issue with KingKahuna or most of the admins on the KKG servers. I could play on the KKG server go 80-2 and the admins won't bother me or tell me to leave. Though i hear a lot of my friends being kicked and banned, no idea why my experiences have been so different from so many others.

    No one has ever been kicked or ban because of their KDR on my servers. Never! Everyone who is on our ban list went out of their way to earn their place there, as is evident in some of the remarks by some. We only kick / ban because of a players in-game attitude and behavior. No one in my administration has ever asked a player to leave either, as has been reported by one in this very topic. We encourage all players, including competitive players to play with us and have fun.

    KK
    DecoyMac1OMan
  • eh?eh? Members Join Date: 2012-03-03 Member: 147997Posts: 517 Fully active user
    Well not entirely true, but ok; you do have class after all. And by not "entirely true" I think I actually meant "blatant ass covering lie"

    I'm confused how anyone that was actually any good at this game is still able to play pubs at all. Unless of course they removed the vote kick since March or whatever. Don't have the time or desire to deal with that in 90% of servers.

    xDragon
  • maD_maX_maD_maX_ Members Join Date: 2013-04-07 Member: 184678Posts: 470 Advanced user
    Now as far as KKG goes I can understand both sides. 9 months ago I was banned on all KKG servers and I didn't know why. 4 months ago I registered on the KKG forum and appealed my ban. We never found out by who or why I was banned but I was allowed back. I then played nearly exclusively in KKG since it had a good mix of skilled regulars. 2 months later king told me I was an admin.

    As a admin on KKG I have to agree with king, I'm far more likely to kick the player that repeatedly puts up "vote kicks" for the player who is 49-2 then the player who is stomping. I find players that rage calling hacks/cheats to be more disruptive then skilled players (no one wants to play against a hacker).

    Now if there are 2-3 players with 20-1 scores stacking game after game I might move one to a different team but I would not ban.

    To date I have kicked 3 people and banned 0 and the 3 people I kicked had negative K/D but their hack comments and vulgarity moved me to action. So if you have skill come and play KKG, if you believe were banned for skill appeal to king (team speak) and then come play KKG. Just be respectful to the players who rant as skilled...
    KingKahunaTheriusZalamael
  • RaZDaZRaZDaZ Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167331Posts: 465 Fully active user
    Players that call for vote kicks on excellent players shouldn't happen. You have the option to change server or even scum by changing team. Simply asking said players to do some commanding or leave or evenly stack the teams is better. Btw, I rarely if ever see really good players commanding :S
    NS2 ID: RaZDaZ
    Old School AvP2 Vet
    KingKahuna
  • fat catfat cat Members, Reinforced - Silver Join Date: 2012-10-30 Member: 164696Posts: 50
    edited September 2013
    Melancor wrote: »
    The topic is referring to imba players, hax or not may be secondary. Such players are easily identified after a few minutes of play, but it's hard to make rules on how to deal with them.

    I would kick everyone who does not fit into a certain range of skill on the server - with a friendly advice to join a more pro server.
    Obviously, labelling servers "rookie or not" is COMPLETE BULL (I've been wanting to say that for a while). Four levels might be enough : "Begginner, Intermediate, Advanced, Pro"

    most can be identified immediately by their clan tags.

    imageimage

  • Side1Bu2Rnz9Side1Bu2Rnz9 Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-10-16 Member: 162510Posts: 289 Advanced user
    RaZDaZ wrote: »
    Players that call for vote kicks on excellent players shouldn't happen. You have the option to change server or even scum by changing team. Simply asking said players to do some commanding or leave or evenly stack the teams is better. Btw, I rarely if ever see really good players commanding :S

    maybe it's because we all don't enjoy commanding... I comm every once and awhile for marines, but it gets tiring and I don't enjoy it as much as a fps perspective. As far as aliens... I haven't comm'd them since 253 was released... too dull and boring for me
  • joshhhjoshhh Milwaukee, WIMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester Join Date: 2011-06-21 Member: 105717Posts: 1,437 Advanced user
    Syknik wrote: »
    In all honesty, when i do play on public server, i tend to try to play on the KKG servers. I do get nagged on by some of the public players because of my KDR and whatnot, but i've never had an issue with KingKahuna or most of the admins on the KKG servers. I could play on the KKG server go 80-2 and the admins won't bother me or tell me to leave. Though i hear a lot of my friends being kicked and banned, no idea why my experiences have been so different from so many others.

    Since I was never actually told why I was banned, I can only assume it was from my past post about my dislike of the (old?) redirect/reserve slot system in the forums. Current1y was banned for the same reason. Doesn't take much Syk. ._.
  • KilledByDeathKilledByDeath Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-12-26 Member: 176308Posts: 51
    Locklear wrote: »
    KingKahuna wrote: »
    Chikun wrote: »
    The only thing that pisses me off in pubs are when the people who had insane KDR's the last round join the same team round after round. I'm all for getting stomped every once in a while, its good for the ego and a good learning experience, but seeing this level of cowardice from "competitive players" gives everyone a bad taste in their mouth. One look at the team setup and everyone knows what's going to happen the next round and when you destroy the hope of winning or any optimism, you destroy the server population.

    Preach all you want about "only getting better by playing people better than you". I'm a firm believer of it, but until other "competitive players" start calling out others on this behavior you will always have a small amount of disdain from others.

    You sir, are absolutely correct. I've been stepping out saying this for a long long time. You can see the arrogance, and disrespect from those here who have posted. Not all are classless, that's the good news.

    Seriously? Disrespectful? All I said was have some backbone if you play a multiplayer game like this.. When I came into this game I would literally get destroyed in pubs with KDR's: Like 3-15 etc.

    I was drawn to the people that didn't get destroyed in pubs. Those who were better and I tried to learn from them.

    It's pretty simple and applies to many things in life. From a server operator standpoint I understand why you think it's terrible to have a good player in your server threatening to empty it. But that's fine - no argument here.. just skillban if that's what you're afraid of.

    But the principle still stands.. people with any amount of backbone are drawn to playing against and with better players. In order to improve.. and enjoy themselves more.

    Those who are afraid of a challenge or just want casual fun (very small challenge or none at all) will obviously have the other attitude that you seem to have.

    Problem is.. NS2 is a challenge - if you want to be proficient at the game it will challenge all of your FPS skills and some.. so like I said..

    Get backbone or go home. (or stop bitching, that works too)

    So let me get this straight, we have this extremely objective based shooter, that allows for the possibility of all kinds of strategies, especially with the asymmetric nature of the two teams, and you want it to be decided by entirely by raw FPS skills pretty much all the time.

    If I wanted to test raw FPS skills why would I want to play this over Quake or CS or something? At least they have the maps and team sizes that encourage that sort of thing.
    KingKahuna
  • TovaTova Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-12-26 Member: 176254Posts: 41
    I'm all for self regulation, servers shouldn't kick or ban people because they are skilled. However skilled players should be aware of the potential effects their interactions have on the community in the long run. You're absolutely kidding yourself if you believe that pubstomping keeps your skills sharp, while providing some positive model for rookies.
    KingKahunaMasterBat
  • Squirreli_Squirreli_ Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-04-25 Member: 151046Posts: 343
    Locklear wrote: »
    Seriously? Disrespectful? All I said was have some backbone if you play a multiplayer game like this.. When I came into this game I would literally get destroyed in pubs with KDR's: Like 3-15 etc.

    I was drawn to the people that didn't get destroyed in pubs. Those who were better and I tried to learn from them.

    It's pretty simple and applies to many things in life. From a server operator standpoint I understand why you think it's terrible to have a good player in your server threatening to empty it. But that's fine - no argument here.. just skillban if that's what you're afraid of.

    But the principle still stands.. people with any amount of backbone are drawn to playing against and with better players. In order to improve.. and enjoy themselves more.

    Those who are afraid of a challenge or just want casual fun (very small challenge or none at all) will obviously have the other attitude that you seem to have.

    Problem is.. NS2 is a challenge - if you want to be proficient at the game it will challenge all of your FPS skills and some.. so like I said..

    Get backbone or go home. (or stop bitching, that works too)

    So let me get this straight, we have this extremely objective based shooter, that allows for the possibility of all kinds of strategies, especially with the asymmetric nature of the two teams, and you want it to be decided by entirely by raw FPS skills pretty much all the time.

    If I wanted to test raw FPS skills why would I want to play this over Quake or CS or something? At least they have the maps and team sizes that encourage that sort of thing.


    So let me get this straight, we have Locklear's post you didn't even read before letting your prejudices run wild? ;)

    Locklear talks about a challenging game that is by nature very competitive and very challenging. At no point did he state that he wanted the game to be just about any sort of "raw FPS skills", whatever that may mean.

    Personally, what draws me to the game is that the game is challenging on many levels at once. The skill ceiling is high, skilled play is rewarded and on top of the shooting/movement skills you need to constantly play team, out-guess opposing team, position yourself on both micro and macro level and communicate. The whole package and the challenge in it is what brings me to the game, and these things are not true for any other FPS games I've encountered to this extent.

    On another note, please keep the drama on. NS2 always needs more drama, and I've found this thread entertaining ;) ... Also, one last practical tip here: Go play on the green servers if you can't handle the challenge of the occasional player who knows how to play this game. On those servers that appear white in the list, there will be good players playing who actually know how to play this game. Ok? Ok.
    "To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women." -Conan

    Steam profile
    LocklearJJava
  • Squirreli_Squirreli_ Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-04-25 Member: 151046Posts: 343
    Oh, and I wouldn't be against a working setup for actually finding skilled public games or match-making games. Wouldn't mind that at all. I wouldn't mind getting a an easy-access way to play against good players. None of the current mechanisms really work.

    And anyways, I may play a round or two on a server that doesn't offer challenge, but I don't play this game for ego-boost, I play it for good teamplay and the challenge. I try and frequent servers that on average seem a bit higher-skilled, but somehow the noobs always find their way into these servers. And then I'm the bad guy in a forum thread, since I didn't quit in time and lil' bobby got their feelings hurt. And then, maybe someone in another thread complains that us veterans don't help new players enough. Go figure.
    "To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women." -Conan

    Steam profile
    Locklear
  • MasterBatMasterBat Members Join Date: 2013-09-30 Member: 188533Posts: 16
    The problem with green servers is that pros still enter them and stomp. I don't exactly enjoy it when our entire team gets wiped out by one dude and is the sole reason we are losing. Not due to strategy or tactics. If you're really good at the game, and decide to play on a rookie server, I don't understand why you wouldn't command at all? Especially since the game needs a lot more commanders.

    The pro players do nothing to help the new players if there is no communication after or during the round. You aren't exactly teaching anyone if you aren't talking to other players about how to get good or directing them on what to do. This is probably why newer players would prefer good or better players to command, because they have better info on the game. And usually, really good players stay quiet.
    KingKahuna
  • rayzourayzou Members, WC 2013 - Shadow Join Date: 2013-03-18 Member: 184066Posts: 63
    Well, i don't really know why you still can join rookie servers after 150+ hours.

    Anyway, it's kinda easy to talk about "pro players" in general, there are some of them that do care about their team mates in pub.
  • |DFA| Havoc|DFA| Havoc Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2009-08-07 Member: 68375Posts: 160
    Just need more people to seed / play on this server: http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/131329/a-competitive-pub-server


    Still willing to hand out admin to responsible types so that belligerent rookies / noobs who resist redirection or complain about skill can be removed.
  • KingKahunaKingKahuna Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2008-03-23 Member: 63944Posts: 23
    We are allowed to advertise our servers here now?
  • PaLaGiPaLaGi Members, Constellation Join Date: 2008-01-03 Member: 63331Posts: 185 Fully active user
    You are allowed to be wrong all the time. That's much worse.
  • TheriusTherius Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Join Date: 2009-03-06 Member: 66642Posts: 750 Advanced user
    KingKahuna wrote: »
    We are allowed to advertise our servers here now?

    No need, we'll just join KKG instead then.

  • |DFA| Havoc|DFA| Havoc Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2009-08-07 Member: 68375Posts: 160
    KingKahuna wrote: »
    We are allowed to advertise our servers here now?

    The elite server isn't really 'our' server. We paid for it, sure, but we've also essentially given it to the competitive community for their own use and washed our hands of it. We don't generally play there, we don't moderate it, we don't ask for donations to run it, and it's not tied to our identity in any way.

    It doesn't benefit us in any way for people to play there, except for the way it ideally benefits the entire playerbase. It is intended to be a solution to a problem that has plagued the NS2 community from the beginning, and a hot topic in this and many other threads.

    In fact, the biggest reason why the server hasn't seen much use is that the competitive community has not taken ownership of it, and hasn't really stepped up to take on the seeding and moderating responsibilities that DFA isn't handling, because we're busy doing that for our own server.

    I think what it comes down to is that most people would rather immediately play a crappy / imbalanced game than have to wait for a server to fill with players of similar capability. The DFA server wouldn't get used either if we didn't seed it every day.
  • ezekelezekel Members, NS2 Map Tester Join Date: 2012-11-29 Member: 173589Posts: 1,385 Advanced user
    I've found the nice people at DFA clan server accept me :D

    That and it's mod free, if a mod is anything more than the basic admin functions/custom map.. I really don't want to be there
  • LocklearLocklear [nexzil]kerrigan Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, WC 2013 - Shadow Join Date: 2012-05-01 Member: 151403Posts: 1,337 Advanced user
    KingKahuna wrote: »
    We are allowed to advertise our servers here now?

    The elite server isn't really 'our' server. We paid for it, sure, but we've also essentially given it to the competitive community for their own use and washed our hands of it. We don't generally play there, we don't moderate it, we don't ask for donations to run it, and it's not tied to our identity in any way.

    It doesn't benefit us in any way for people to play there, except for the way it ideally benefits the entire playerbase. It is intended to be a solution to a problem that has plagued the NS2 community from the beginning, and a hot topic in this and many other threads.

    In fact, the biggest reason why the server hasn't seen much use is that the competitive community has not taken ownership of it, and hasn't really stepped up to take on the seeding and moderating responsibilities that DFA isn't handling, because we're busy doing that for our own server.

    I think what it comes down to is that most people would rather immediately play a crappy / imbalanced game than have to wait for a server to fill with players of similar capability. The DFA server wouldn't get used either if we didn't seed it every day.

    Competitive community is too small and the skill difference within it is too large for it to ever work atm.
    "If great visuals brings players in, great gameplay gets them to stay." - Valve
    KingKahuna
  • FlipperFlipper Members Join Date: 2012-08-08 Member: 155120Posts: 188
    Locklear wrote: »
    KingKahuna wrote: »
    We are allowed to advertise our servers here now?

    The elite server isn't really 'our' server. We paid for it, sure, but we've also essentially given it to the competitive community for their own use and washed our hands of it. We don't generally play there, we don't moderate it, we don't ask for donations to run it, and it's not tied to our identity in any way.

    It doesn't benefit us in any way for people to play there, except for the way it ideally benefits the entire playerbase. It is intended to be a solution to a problem that has plagued the NS2 community from the beginning, and a hot topic in this and many other threads.

    In fact, the biggest reason why the server hasn't seen much use is that the competitive community has not taken ownership of it, and hasn't really stepped up to take on the seeding and moderating responsibilities that DFA isn't handling, because we're busy doing that for our own server.

    I think what it comes down to is that most people would rather immediately play a crappy / imbalanced game than have to wait for a server to fill with players of similar capability. The DFA server wouldn't get used either if we didn't seed it every day.

    Competitive community is too small and the skill difference within it is too large for it to ever work atm.

    Small is the overstatement of the century.

    From what I can tell all the best players quit and now due to shifting baselines the worst are the best, but at a lower level overall.
    Dulce et demori est pro patria mori
    #Winning
    NS2 Shotty fun: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkw25TLkksQ
    KingKahuna
  • joshhhjoshhh Milwaukee, WIMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester Join Date: 2011-06-21 Member: 105717Posts: 1,437 Advanced user
    The scene really hasn't grown or shrunk. NS, in general, has always had a small selective comp community. This NSL season actually yielded a good number of teams compared to the last one afaik.
  • prevertbreasthoundprevertbreasthound Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2003-10-28 Member: 22089Posts: 20
    joshhh wrote: »
    The scene really hasn't grown or shrunk. NS, in general, has always had a small selective comp community. This NSL season actually yielded a good number of teams compared to the last one afaik.

    Just from counting the teams from season 2 and 3 on ensl, we went from 78 teams in season 2 down to 51 in season 3.

    A drop of 27 teams. Not factoring in any teams that may have dropped mid-season.

    As much as I would like to be optimistic, I guess I have finally lost hope for ns2.
    KingKahuna
  • RaccoonRaccoon Members Join Date: 2012-10-27 Member: 163999Posts: 10
    edited October 2013
    Fun while it lasted
    Post edited by Raccoon on
  • SkyPirateSkyPirate Members Join Date: 2012-02-19 Member: 146845Posts: 41
    edited October 2013
    NS2 states is the only current way to check a players play time record (how many hours they played)

    Click Aim (slow Aim)/wall hack Almost impossible to detect ! ! ! because they look just like a pro player when you spectate them.

    THIS IS HOW YOU CAN CATCH HACKERS (YOU NEED TO MAKE SMART ANTI HACK DETECTION)
    SO, there is only one way to counter this. When a aimbot aims it is programed to aim at a certain speed like 1.5 (only aims when you click mouse 1 or 2) Anti cheap software needs to be smart and detect the stable mouse speed and the other factors like stable hitbox aiming after clicking and is the hacker aiming at the repeat hitbox aiming (always headshot). Legit players movements cannot be replicated by a hack because its unique to every situation.
  • FlipperFlipper Members Join Date: 2012-08-08 Member: 155120Posts: 188
    Raccoon wrote: »
    Fun while it lasted

    no.. not really.. by the time they fixed performance the game was dead.
    Dulce et demori est pro patria mori
    #Winning
    NS2 Shotty fun: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkw25TLkksQ
    KingKahuna
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