Why won't uwe make a few great mods as part of ns2?

Electr0Electr0 Join Date: 2011-10-31 Member: 130337Members Posts: 349
Think about it, uwe managed to make a few in a week that were playable and fun but sadly not maintained, in the reinforcement program they will make whatever mod you want in 5 days if you pay for it, so why don't they add some real value to ns2 if they can and give us a few decent game modes to play as well, we already have combat, mvm and classic, a few official modes wouldn't hurt.
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  • Electr0Electr0 Join Date: 2011-10-31 Member: 130337Members Posts: 349
    Im not thinking of anything major, more like game modes similar to combat and last stand, stuff thats mostly a bit of code.
  • lwflwf Join Date: 2006-11-03 Member: 58311Members, Constellation Posts: 486 Fully active user
    edited September 2013
    And even those mods are broken and unmaintained.


    Edit: Not Combat, but the mods UWE made. Even a small mod (as you put it, not me) like Combat needs a bunch of work maintaining it.
    Post edited by lwf on
  • Maxx11_v2.0Maxx11_v2.0 Join Date: 2012-11-18 Member: 172221Members Posts: 274
    Let the devs handle the main game, leave the mods to the community.
    DraptorCarNagE1Scorpion9908
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,465 Advanced user
    Electr0 wrote: »
    Im not thinking of anything major, more like game modes similar to combat and last stand, stuff thats mostly a bit of code.

    The code part is the part that causes problems ;)
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

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  • RedSwordRedSword Join Date: 2006-12-07 Member: 58947Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Posts: 308 Advanced user
    In case you didn't know, NS1 had combat mod built-in. Devs didn't want to port it to NS2 as it was too time consuming I believe (i.e. balancing, more maps, etc...).
  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,690 Advanced user
    Look at where Last Stand is right now. That's what happens when you throw together a mod and don't maintain it. And maintaining a mod or new game mode in the long term requires a continuous amount of work, which takes time away from the game.
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,465 Advanced user
    @RedSword No, I didn't know this. Thank you.

    But I think the mods are going to outlive this game, anyway :D
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

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  • piratedavepiratedave Join Date: 2012-03-10 Member: 148561Members Posts: 214
    heres what you do

    dont give UWE the $75 000

    instead make an Xprize competition for the community to create the best mod

    1st place gets $50 000, 2nd place gets $20 000, third place gets $5000

    much better than getting UWE to make some mod for only 1 week.
  • JCDJCD Join Date: 2005-01-07 Member: 33150Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 141
    piratedave wrote: »
    heres what you do

    dont give UWE the $75 000

    instead make an Xprize competition for the community to create the best mod

    1st place gets $50 000, 2nd place gets $20 000, third place gets $5000

    much better than getting UWE to make some mod for only 1 week.

    Err you know that giving UWE is meant to cover their costs so the costs for 1 Week UWE wouldn't be 75k
    else that whole program would be stupid.

  • rebirthrebirth Join Date: 2007-09-23 Member: 62416Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 385 Fully active user
    JCD wrote: »
    piratedave wrote: »
    heres what you do

    dont give UWE the $75 000

    instead make an Xprize competition for the community to create the best mod

    1st place gets $50 000, 2nd place gets $20 000, third place gets $5000

    much better than getting UWE to make some mod for only 1 week.

    Err you know that giving UWE is meant to cover their costs so the costs for 1 Week UWE wouldn't be 75k
    else that whole program would be stupid.


    And how does that matter when the community will be able to churn out mods at a fraction of the costs for UWE? I get that UWE wants money in their hands right now, but a competition among the community, with such high cash prices, should result in some decent mods.

    I've been waiting for an alternative to "Vanilla" for like an eternity, something that's geared more towards the "fun play", leaving out all the competitive side. Because that's the part of the community NS2 has barely catered to.

    So why not finally get Gorge-Belly-Racing, with some Marines as bowling pins at the end of the track? Sure it might not be perfectly balanced for the mighty important "competitive scene", but does it really need to be?

    If these $75.000 result in 2-3 decent mods, that's a lot of additional content for the game, which in turn should boost sales again, down the line everybody could win out.

  • HamletHamlet Join Date: 2008-08-17 Member: 64837Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 373 Advanced user
    edited September 2013
    Xenoswarm is great fun.
    I also recommend the menu poses mod to all my friends:
    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=175350373
  • 2cough2cough Rocky Mountain High Join Date: 2013-03-14 Member: 183952Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Posts: 1,025 Advanced user
    Cuz there's prob enough concurrent players to support tons o mods, right? something tells me, unfortunately, that we won't be seeing any full conversion mods like ns was for hl, on this engine. all seem to be gameplay variants. I'd rather a more polished ns2 from the devs, and maybe someday, someone in community will come out with something sweet, but again, I don't think the player base is there. people already rip on the 249 mod players for further splitting the community.
  • peregrinusperegrinus Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Members Posts: 2,432 Fully active user
    Let the devs handle the main game, leave the mods to the community.

    Not sure it's as simple as that. To grow a modding community you need some kind of cooperation between devs and modders.


  • SteveRockSteveRock Join Date: 2012-10-01 Member: 161215Members, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer Posts: 486 Advanced user
    Well if you're curious, the Last Stand mod source is here, but yeah, we don't have time to maintain it unfortunately: https://github.com/unknownworlds/ns2_laststand
    GISPNarfwak
  • joohoo_n3djoohoo_n3d Join Date: 2012-10-30 Member: 164703Members, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Supporter Posts: 216 Fully active user
    Electr0 wrote: »
    Why won't uwe make a few great mods as part of ns2?
    they did that to make a point to and encourage us, the community.
    they made the game and the tools, we should be making more mods!
    besides...id rather them work on ns2 than a bunch of other mods that come and go which they can't really dedicate their time on.
  • jolonne5jolonne5 Join Date: 2013-08-27 Member: 187103Members Posts: 13
    Mods are dumb and pointless and 99% of the time broken. UWE should focus on there game and imo not even bother with helping the community with mods that just get abandon a month later. Why waste time helping modders when surround sound doesn't even work in game.

    Priorities People
    duvel
  • ChikunChikun Join Date: 2013-01-10 Member: 178729Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 80
    Whatever happened to the Gorge Race mod?
    GISP
  • cpt000cpt000 Join Date: 2013-08-28 Member: 187152Members Posts: 104 Fully active user
    jolonne5 wrote: »
    Mods are dumb and pointless and 99% of the time broken. UWE should focus on there game and imo not even bother with helping the community with mods that just get abandon a month later. Why waste time helping modders when surround sound doesn't even work in game.

    Priorities People

    I disagree - the combat mod is great for players who want to learn how to use new lifeforms, since you don't need to wait for more personal res. Die as a fade? No problem, just re-evolve.
  • jolonne5jolonne5 Join Date: 2013-08-27 Member: 187103Members Posts: 13
    Combat should of been in the game from the get go. Its the only mod that is even played on a consistent basis. So that's the one exception uwe should make combat official.
  • ChikunChikun Join Date: 2013-01-10 Member: 178729Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 80
    edited September 2013
    jolonne5 wrote: »
    Mods are dumb and pointless and 99% of the time broken. UWE should focus on there game and imo not even bother with helping the community with mods that just get abandon a month later. Why waste time helping modders when surround sound doesn't even work in game.

    Priorities People

    I agree and disagree on your statement.

    I disagree on your position of mods in NS2. Combat mod has grown quite considerably and is slowly approaching the same popularity as in NS1 (when I played many, many moons ago) and shouldn't be completely ignored by the dev team. The number of combat mod servers that operate at near capacity (discounting servers that are full or empty, sadly filtered) have definately increased since I started playing.

    I agree on your stance on the dev team focusing their efforts on balancing and fixing bugs. This simply boils down to finishing the house you originally started to build before you start knocking down unfinished walls for new additions.

    What I'm simply suggesting is that while the dev team ceaselessly toils away at making NS2 the pinnacle of gaming and drinking the sweet tears of large gaming companies that think releasing the same 60$ game that's slightly modified every year is a good business model, they shouldn't also alienate themself from the modding community that's trying to make different experiences within the game that people can enjoy. This is really the main reason to why I have such a loyalty to CounterStrike because of the modding community that has made multiple mods that are extremely popular (Warcraft, Gungame, Deathmatch, ZombieMod) and some that are less popular but still have multiple servers that are being paid for to support (Surf, Climb, Jailbreak).
  • Electr0Electr0 Join Date: 2011-10-31 Member: 130337Members Posts: 349
    Really we should of had a few popular game modes since release, combat is obvious and id include the option to play marine vs marine and alien vs alien, after that a few simple modes like last stand would of be great, as good as the normal game is it'[s nice to have a bit of variety without having to play some other game, im not expecting all the old school classic modes like ctf or dm etc but it wouldn't hurt and all it takes is a bit of code to make it happen, most of the work is done.
  • Maxx11_v2.0Maxx11_v2.0 Join Date: 2012-11-18 Member: 172221Members Posts: 274
    peregrinus wrote: »
    Let the devs handle the main game, leave the mods to the community.

    Not sure it's as simple as that. To grow a modding community you need some kind of cooperation between devs and modders.

    Which you have plenty of on these forums. The biggest problem with mods at the moment is that every other patch tends to break them in some way.
    Electr0
  • HughHugh Cameraman San Francisco, CA Join Date: 2010-04-18 Member: 71444Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 1,779 admin
    @F0rdPerfect nails it. Adding mods has big 'hidden' costs.

    The end result of UWE making a mod 'official' is:

    Slower updates to that mod
    Slower updates to the main game
    Greater liklihood main game is b0rked
    Greater liklihood mod is b0rked
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  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,465 Advanced user
    @Hugh Well, basically I quote a post you made sometime ago B-)
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  • Soylent_greenSoylent_green Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11220Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 2,875 Advanced user
    NS2 does not support mods. Although it is possible to make them, they must continually mutate faster than a flu virus in order to maintain compatibility with their NS2 host.

    Ain't nobody got time for that.
    RedSword
  • Warforce17Warforce17 Join Date: 2013-09-12 Member: 188154Members Posts: 87 Fully active user
    Hugh wrote: »
    @F0rdPerfect nails it. Adding mods has big 'hidden' costs.

    The end result of UWE making a mod 'official' is:

    Slower updates to that mod
    Slower updates to the main game
    Greater liklihood main game is b0rked
    Greater liklihood mod is b0rked

    While I understand that supporting mods will lead to more work and cost for UWE, I think that at least the combat mod should be considered as some kind of "deathmatch mode".
    I might be wrong on this and if so feel free to prove me so, but I think adding "combat" would give the new players, which are overwhelmed by Ns2 vanilla, a way to enjoy the combat mechanics and get into the game. It is a especially nice mode when new players want to test out the aliens without being punioshed to do so. In the end this could help to keep some "more causal" players playing who might have never heard of the mod otherwise.
    Greetings,

    Warforce17


    MrFangs
  • JCDentonJCDenton Join Date: 2013-03-07 Member: 183768Members Posts: 31
    I think the main "problem" is the lack of manpower at Unknown Worlds.
    There's not enough of a team to maintain NS2 as well as the mods. UWE does an amazing job with NS2, especially considering the size of the team, but at the current size it is very easy for them to spread themselves too thin and I think that is what Hugh is getting at.
  • joohoo_n3djoohoo_n3d Join Date: 2012-10-30 Member: 164703Members, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Supporter Posts: 216 Fully active user
    jolonne5 wrote: »
    Mods are dumb and pointless and 99% of the time broken. UWE should focus on there game and imo not even bother with helping the community with mods that just get abandon a month later. Why waste time helping modders when surround sound doesn't even work in game.

    Priorities People

    jolones...think again about your comment - natural selection was a mod and would never have existed had the developers of halflife not made a sdk while also fixing their own bugs in hl.
    nothings perfect, its a work in progress...for christ sake they just released a patch for halflife and that game came out in 1998!

  • NarfwakNarfwak Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 3,787 admin
    SteveRock wrote: »
    Well if you're curious, the Last Stand mod source is here, but yeah, we don't have time to maintain it unfortunately: https://github.com/unknownworlds/ns2_laststand
    SamusDroid is working on patching it back up to working condition: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=177810924. He could use some help testing it out!
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