back in beta it was all about second hive (aliens hold it ->win, marines destroy it ->win)....
I dunno man, I remember randomly appearing infestation patches in my base as well :P
are you referring to the frame crushing cyst rush ? ^^
Nah, the Cyst wasn't even modelled back then. But the Hive Mind could just randomly place infestation patches on the map, even in the marine's main base. Fun times... For aliens :P
Technically, I do not say that marines need to get PG's first. I only say that they should just get into a good position and eventually get PG's to hold that position and then just fortify. And indeed my point is that almost all comp. games seem to go according to this pattern.
If the point is that the game is stale, the way you wrote it makes it seem stale, but really it's very complex. Sure, basic strategies are similar, but it comes down to execution. This is where the variety really comes in. Things like lane-blocking, timing, positioning...
Yes, marines need phase gates, otherwise they don't have map control and lose. That's by design. I don't see the problem. There are various ways to establish this step.
Yes aliens need fades (and higher lifeforms in general). If they lose them, they lose the game. It's by design.
You've highlighted key staples of the game, like the defense of a soccer team should keep the other team from scoring...
If the point is that the game is stale, the way you wrote it makes it seem stale, but really it's very complex. Sure, basic strategies are similar, but it comes down to execution. This is where the variety really comes in. Things like lane-blocking, timing, positioning...
Yes, marines need phase gates, otherwise they don't have map control and lose. That's by design. I don't see the problem. There are various ways to establish this step.
Yes aliens need fades (and higher lifeforms in general). If they lose them, they lose the game. It's by design.
You've highlighted key staples of the game, like the defense of a soccer team should keep the other team from scoring...
There's barely anything in this game, so most things are important. That's not his point.
How many competitive marine wins have you seen where the marines don't need to just sit phase gates for 20-40 minutes? Besides a stomp.
There's barely anything in this game, so most things are important. That's not his point.
How many competitive marine wins have you seen where the marines don't need to just sit phase gates for 20-40 minutes? Besides a stomp.
By sit and wait, do you mean so they can tech up to a certain point? What's the point they stop?
If the marines just sit at phase gates, they'll eventually lose (unless the aliens are not properly playing). Yes, in the mid-game, marines do need to make sure their gates are protected, but that is by no means all the marines do.
My point is there's so much more to what's happening than "just sit and wait". Onos will come out if they sit and wait too long. There is also a series of res node attacks that will slow down the tech up process. If aliens begin to outpace, it will become harder to maintain the gates. Therefore, there are goals to attempt to slow alien tech-rate, such as harvester hits and positioning. So it's not as bland and rinse-repeat as the OP suggests. It's not as predictable because there's a lot happening.
I do see a point, however, in that if the marines can fend off all alien advances until they're fully teched, they'll likely win, but that means the aliens have had ample (and I mean ample) opportunities to break a base and have failed. Either way, there will be significant changes on the 30th so we'll see how it changes
Yeah, I'm trying not to mind too much until the new patch comes out. I would be stoked to see the fade cost increase to 50, babblers cost increase to 2 and cara having more of a bonus on onos to help those mid/late game pushes when marines are set up and ready.
Very accurate flow chart of every single comp game though.
I remember when shade came out, and you could ninja a second hive with a gorge mini-cyst, and 25 energy cloak it over and over again. Gorge had to heal the mini-cyst though, which gave away his location without silence.
back in beta it was all about second hive (aliens hold it ->win, marines destroy it ->win)....
I dunno man, I remember randomly appearing infestation patches in my base as well :P
are you referring to the frame crushing cyst rush ? ^^
Nah, the Cyst wasn't even modelled back then. But the Hive Mind could just randomly place infestation patches on the map, even in the marine's main base. Fun times... For aliens :P
You forget the devastating counter of building 1000 sentries per room.
1. Marines do NOT need five extractors in order to win.
2. Marines do NOT have to wait for fades in order to win.
3. Marines do NOT have to tech up completely in order to win.
Thus, your chart is too simplified AND wrong. If NS was that simple and determined, there would be no NSL. I wouldn't play it, you wouldn't play it.
Im surprised, Totaldang. You're a good player, you should know better.
Game has always been a sort of cascade effect with the first 5 minutes determining the game.. of course there are times good play sways it or a miraculous kill saves the game but usually its pretty boring.
back in beta it was all about second hive (aliens hold it ->win, marines destroy it ->win)....
I dunno man, I remember randomly appearing infestation patches in my base as well :P
are you referring to the frame crushing cyst rush ? ^^
Nah, the Cyst wasn't even modelled back then. But the Hive Mind could just randomly place infestation patches on the map, even in the marine's main base. Fun times... For aliens :P
You forget the devastating counter of building 1000 sentries per room.
Or we can go further back...when the Great Hydra of Laginess would rule all who dared venture into the server.
Don't really agree with some portions of the chart.
E.g. Marines don't need 5 RTs to win. Just no fewer than 3.
Losing every Fade right when they come out is not something you should "expect" to happen. Getting 1 or 2 down is more reasonable and then you can push against 1 Fade.
This chart is too simplified and linear.. and some information is just off.
Comments
are you referring to the frame crushing cyst rush ? ^^
Nah, the Cyst wasn't even modelled back then. But the Hive Mind could just randomly place infestation patches on the map, even in the marine's main base. Fun times... For aliens :P
Yeah, sometimes i miss more real strategy in the game.
In the end its only a shooter.
Yes, marines need phase gates, otherwise they don't have map control and lose. That's by design. I don't see the problem. There are various ways to establish this step.
Yes aliens need fades (and higher lifeforms in general). If they lose them, they lose the game. It's by design.
You've highlighted key staples of the game, like the defense of a soccer team should keep the other team from scoring...
There's barely anything in this game, so most things are important. That's not his point.
How many competitive marine wins have you seen where the marines don't need to just sit phase gates for 20-40 minutes? Besides a stomp.
By sit and wait, do you mean so they can tech up to a certain point? What's the point they stop?
If the marines just sit at phase gates, they'll eventually lose (unless the aliens are not properly playing). Yes, in the mid-game, marines do need to make sure their gates are protected, but that is by no means all the marines do.
My point is there's so much more to what's happening than "just sit and wait". Onos will come out if they sit and wait too long. There is also a series of res node attacks that will slow down the tech up process. If aliens begin to outpace, it will become harder to maintain the gates. Therefore, there are goals to attempt to slow alien tech-rate, such as harvester hits and positioning. So it's not as bland and rinse-repeat as the OP suggests. It's not as predictable because there's a lot happening.
I do see a point, however, in that if the marines can fend off all alien advances until they're fully teched, they'll likely win, but that means the aliens have had ample (and I mean ample) opportunities to break a base and have failed. Either way, there will be significant changes on the 30th so we'll see how it changes
Very accurate flow chart of every single comp game though.
Old times.
10/10 would read again
2. Marines do NOT have to wait for fades in order to win.
3. Marines do NOT have to tech up completely in order to win.
Thus, your chart is too simplified AND wrong. If NS was that simple and determined, there would be no NSL. I wouldn't play it, you wouldn't play it.
Im surprised, Totaldang. You're a good player, you should know better.
Push aliens back to hive, build a grenade dispenser outside of hive room, and throw your noisemakers at the hive.
E.g. Marines don't need 5 RTs to win. Just no fewer than 3.
Losing every Fade right when they come out is not something you should "expect" to happen. Getting 1 or 2 down is more reasonable and then you can push against 1 Fade.
This chart is too simplified and linear.. and some information is just off.
that was clearly inb4 "reinforced" patch so why your still complaining about the fade thing it has been massively changed in reinforced patch...