Some thoughts about the current NSL S3 games (Renegade vs. Fight Clan)
Kamamura
Join Date: 2013-03-06 Member: 183736Members, Reinforced - Gold
Join Date: 2013-03-06 Member: 183736Members, Reinforced - Gold
Just watched round 3 and I must say I have never seen more exciting, diverse, balanced and interesting competitive game.
Compared to the one-dimensional fadeball vs. shotguns+JP+medspam of the 253, this is heaven (from spectator point of view).
I know the game has problems, I know it looks imbalanced with aliens having distinctive edge right now, but the devs deserve one big pat on the shoulder:
They actually managed to diversify the game!
That is excellent, fantastic, fascinating news. We saw arc pushes in the game, we saw all the lifeforms, onos, lerks, fades still though they seem much weaker, contamination bombs, even dual mini exo rolled out in the end.
It's also clear that the contamination bomb is not and "Insta-win" button as presented in these forums. We could see just one flamerthrower taking care of them, we saw defensive ARCs and nanoshield used as counters to great effect.
Anyway, kudos to the devs and to comp players, it is a super-exciting show to watch.
I mean, just think about the diversity of situations the commanders had to adapt to.
The match actually resembled an intricate fencing match, complete with complex setups, feints, expertly executed lunges and that characteristic back-and-forth shifts as advantage moves from one side to another.
Once the technical problems with the game are solved, I think it could be a sign of exciting period for NS2 and its players, both casual and pro.
Compared to the one-dimensional fadeball vs. shotguns+JP+medspam of the 253, this is heaven (from spectator point of view).
I know the game has problems, I know it looks imbalanced with aliens having distinctive edge right now, but the devs deserve one big pat on the shoulder:
They actually managed to diversify the game!
That is excellent, fantastic, fascinating news. We saw arc pushes in the game, we saw all the lifeforms, onos, lerks, fades still though they seem much weaker, contamination bombs, even dual mini exo rolled out in the end.
It's also clear that the contamination bomb is not and "Insta-win" button as presented in these forums. We could see just one flamerthrower taking care of them, we saw defensive ARCs and nanoshield used as counters to great effect.
Anyway, kudos to the devs and to comp players, it is a super-exciting show to watch.
I mean, just think about the diversity of situations the commanders had to adapt to.
The match actually resembled an intricate fencing match, complete with complex setups, feints, expertly executed lunges and that characteristic back-and-forth shifts as advantage moves from one side to another.
Once the technical problems with the game are solved, I think it could be a sign of exciting period for NS2 and its players, both casual and pro.
Comments
I saw that 7 matured whips are no match for 1 flamethrower or 3 arcs in bile range and line of sight.
Maybe it was a matter of teamplay and tactics, maybe I just miss that ns1 aliens were more aggressive with 3 hives (ranged spores, acid rockets, hive teleportation rushes, xenocide etc.). But aren't the aliens doomed to play way more shy than they used to during ns1/ns2beta? Maybe it just feels that way because rines get new weapons "all the time" and aliens get only questionable defensive features and nerfes as soon as something does damage. I like to play aggressive and ns1 satisfied me in that regard on both teams. In ns2 I feel like I have to hold back as alien, play sneaky and it doesn't even give me a great advantage if an ambush succeeds. Maybe I feel that way is the reason why I saw the round completely different, dunno, it's late and I am thinking too much
Aliens are weak: Aliens are to weak. Aliens should play more aggressive. They should not need to run away.
Contamination is strong: Contamination is too strong. It's like an a-bomb. NREF !!!1
Contamination is countered: Contamination is countered too easily by FT and ARCs. ALNIES TOO WAEK!!11
Why am I reading this crap? I should go outside and meet some new people. Now BTT please.
Also I definitely disagree with your last sentence; I've talked to a lot of people and you cannot expect community growth if you just throw a bunch of new "cool" content out (we won't mention the bugs) then put the game on a Steam sale. It's not sustainable if every change that is made is to make it easier for new players by balancing/nerfing units, the balance should NOT be the place where you gain new players. Instead the things that should be worked on are new games modes, new content that is not screwing with competitive players, new maps (not just 1 per patch) and improvements to user interfaces.
A polished game is what the developers should be aiming for, they should stop messing around with balance in every patch because:
1. It's completely unnecessary.
2. It pisses off anyone who doesn't play the game casually, especially at the rate which patches are coming out.
3. It causes more problems than it fixes.
Please stop rushing stuff out of the door, it's not worth it, and you can only do so many Steam sales... improve other aspects of the game that will contribute to user experience (replays are a prime example of just plain laziness).
Well, if you have an asymmetric game where one side is based around ranged weapons, the ranged weapons should be able to keep the enemies at bay, or the game has serious problems. Similar to space hulk, the genestealers must be very clever, careful and sneaky to achieve something - if they just rush blindly, they just get mowed down.
You realize that aliens still seem to be the more powerful side, right? What would happen if they don't have to be careful with lifeforms? Base rush and game over in 15 minutes?
I understand that from the POV of a comp player, change is always bad because you lose the time you invested in learning a particular skill that negated by the change. That's all good and understandable. But from the POV of the spectators and general public, interesting and diverse gameplay is more important than nuanced comp matches where everything rushes just to fades and JP+shotguns and both sides are flying around like butterflies.
I saw a few bricked fades in the match, and I think the players are still too accustomed to be the always moving, universal killing machine. They got nerfed maybe too much, but they surely did need nerfing.
Also, I hope the favorite "If you let aliens build 3 hives, you have already lost", "If you see exos in the field, you have already lost" is a thing of the past. We have actually seen fully teched marines vs. fully teched aliens and the game was balanced for quite some time. That is unheard of before, and for me personally, excellent news. Late game tech actually used in serious games, exos and onos lost, and the games still does not crumble.
A marine should have the advantage when in range combat but if a skulk manages to sneak in close to a marine and bite him on the back it should be pretty clear who is going to win. Sadly, marines will just jump in the air while shooting the blind skulk who cant even see where the marine just went.
This part of the game is broken and is FRUSTRATING!! What could normally be fun is not fun anymore and just frustrating.
I also find that aliens usually come out on top in the end but only after much frustrations and many many many many deaths. Usually never coming out on top with the kill death ratio. So in other words, yes the aliens will usually win but it is not a fun win. The game wasnt fun. It was frustrating all the way to victory.
What happens when you are a skulk and you confront some guy in a flamethrower and jetpack? Its not fun thats for sure. It's frustrating. It makes no sense to watch said flame thrower burning his friends to "cure" them of the poison. These sorts of things make people upset and disgusted. Its the arcade style which pleases a few people. There is an entire other audience who would prefer to see a little more realism and a balance between realism and fun. Right now this is basically at cartoon levels of realism.
If I could also add, the models for the aliens make them look like dogs and dinosaurs. I wish they looked more and acted more like a real hive. Take an ant colony for example, the workers and soldiers look similar only one is slightly larger than the other. Something about the models dont look good. Probably that they sound more like a pack of wolves than a hive of bugs.
This is all feedback. Take it or leave it.
Edit: found this
http://www.twitch.tv/reddogtv/b/459424312
The alien classes always had different roles and the expansive ones should overcome the disadvantage of melee classes while the cheaper aliens harrass and soften the targets. The problem is that the tough ns1 classes and the ranged attacks were removed and because you don't need gorges to build hives and upgrades, lifeform explosions took place in ns2 -> lifeforms got nerfed. Now everything gets balanced out, but the bitter taste of weaker aliens remains for me (even if aliens might win more). It sounds strange, I know
At least we got our long games back :P
Yupp, fades lost left an right and marines incapable to take advantage of it because they were so busy defending rts instead of just fly in and nuke the hive while there was only 1 fade up.
Mistakes make matches interesting to watch. Is the same with chess. Not some super-nuanced, even game where you spend 20 moves laboring around the weakness of a particular square, but deeply flawed games where one mistake invites another, skewing the balance of the position and bringing tension and sense of urgency.
If you don't believe me, just replay some games of Michail Tal. Today, with computers, some of his combinations were refuted, but his opponents could not do it under pressure during a live match, and the spectators loved Michail the Magician.
For example, the marines sending all five of their field players into computer lab when there was no phase gate nearby was not a good decision at all, and neither was the comm jumping out of the chair and trying to fight the entire alien team instead of beaconing. But it did lead to a pretty exciting sequence where the aliens assaulted the marine base.
I completely agree with you. It is not so fun to play as a weak life form that cant even perform ambushes anymore due to the fact that 4 bites require too much time while marines just hop away into oblivion reloading and shooting as he stays out of your site.
Seriously, I don't mean to talk down on these teams or any of the players, but this was just a back and forth of utter incompetence. It wasn't "some" mistakes leading to interesting gameplay, it was NOTHING BUT mistakes and excruciatingly bad play, teamplay and game awareness. I don't see where the appeal is, but suit yourself.
This was a Div 3 game, not the best of the competitive best. And I found this game to be more exciting watching live than the Exertus and Titan match-up.
Some of the lengthy rounds were played 6v5 and 5v5 due to 32bit crashes, they both tried and and no doubt mistakes were made, but we can't all be super cool-headed players when the poo hits the fan.
I had a good time viewing this cast live, accompanied by Red Dog's commentary as well as the discussions going on in the chat channel.
Your elitist attitude is disconcerting and hardly encourages more new players to attempt to play competitively in the lower leagues that are ideally suited to them.
I would like to play competitively but the prospect of bumping into players like yourself puts me off.
A balanced game is, while both teams have equal skill and game comprehension, giving equal chances to win.
Let's remember that first.
Then, it's true that this new build gives interesting rythm to games in competitive matches. A lot of mistakes are made by all teams, since we need time to adapt to changes.
Last... Wait & See.