Questions/Concerns- Reinforcement Program

Mac1OManMac1OMan Join Date: 2004-10-29 Member: 32510Members, Reinforced - Supporter
edited September 2013 in NS2 General Discussion
Before responding to this, look at my few past posts over the last 8 years and notice how they all are positive and support Unknown Worlds, and also take note that I have been one of many quiet supporters since NS2's release. I'm not here to start problems, I just want to have some questions answered, state some of my history, my opinions, and be on my way again. I'm not trolling or any of this bullshit that goes on in today's forums...


1) When is the cutoff deadline?

2) Do you plan to setup a tracker for compilation of donations to lead up to each tier?

3) Will the unlocks be offered outside of this program for a more reasonable price?

4) Do you plan to open up more tier options for the program or another constellation program in the future?

5) Can we expect another "Reinforcement" program? and how often? (every 6 months?)

6) Do you have a more permanent solution of income for NS2? (exclusive early access, DLC, MTX/F2P?)

7) What happens if you fail to reach funds within the deadline? (I understand you mention you will not work on NS2 full time, so no more big builds?)


There are tons of different variations of the questions above that I would like to ask but I think these deserve an answer.

What I would rather have seen or see in the future is having some sort of early access program where you pay 15-25$ for these big builds and have access 30-45 days in advance before its released to everyone else for free. And consider reopening the constellation program with the perks of play testing builds and being on the inside in-terms of development. This reverse kick-starter was just that... its backwards. And its certainly not a long term reliable funding solution that will keep on giving.

I had no problem supporting NS1 as a free game through the constellation program giving 5$ here and there and supporting it since early beta. Then NS2 with the alpha and black armor when the price was just under 50$ if I remember right and getting access to the alpha, beta, and full game.

Now the thing that keeps popping in my head is paying 75$ for a few cosmetics is getting pretty pricey. I'm all for supporting NS2 and at the same time I would really like to have all perks this game has to offer. The price point is going quite a bit over the top on this one though. The cost for cosmetics should be lower than the price of the game brand new for sure and then allow room to donate whatever extra you could. It has me asking questions like "is this a sign of things to come?". Any way I look at it though I don't even pay that much for brand new AAA titles with dlc or 6 month subscriptions or even charities for that matter...

However looking over these forums the last few days it seems like there is plenty of people willing to pay more in support, and that's all good so have a more open program, but don't put a high price tag on in-game items... Every game that has done that has turned my interest in that game off.

One of the last games I happily bought full price was NS2. Most every other game now I wait at least a few months for all dlc to come out so I can get all the dlc and the game for half price on a steam deal or whatever.

The main thing that I'm sure upsets players about DLC is when a developer cuts out a part of the original release or adds very mediocre content and then calls it DLC. The 2nd thing is when DLC divides the players in the game into sections.


With a better program these wouldn't be problems and would bring more reliable income. With my ending statement I would like to say I'm more than happy to donate 5$ a month to you guys or 20$ for a big patch and early access to the content, but I can't afford to dish out 75$ at random and at the same time feel left out if I don't and I guarantee the average player feels the same way.

Comments

  • joshhhjoshhh Milwaukee, WI Join Date: 2011-06-21 Member: 105717Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    I wasn't aware the reinforcement program was a dlc store for in-game items. I thought it was simply a place to donate to the devs. Hell... I would have gladly given the 75$ I donated just for the support. The in game items are just bonuses.
  • Mac1OManMac1OMan Join Date: 2004-10-29 Member: 32510Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited September 2013
    If you have no problem shelling out 75$ then do it on my behalf, I'll gladly take the bonus and chuck in a 20$ donation of my own.

    I'm sure everyone would be willing to donate all the money in the world if they had it, but I wish they didn't place in-game items at such a high tier.

    If you read my full post you will noticed I've been a supporter for far longer than most, but my concern is in the fact that regardless of how much you have done in the past I have to shell out an additional 75$ for the items. That's clearly a high price tag for in-game items and you can't argue that.

    And that's only a part of my post, my main concern is in the future of the development...
  • Mattk50Mattk50 Join Date: 2013-02-04 Member: 182824Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Mac1OMan wrote: »
    That's clearly a high price tag for in-game items and you can't argue that.

    its not a price tag, its a bonus for donating. Successfully argued.
  • KamamuraKamamura Join Date: 2013-03-06 Member: 183736Members, Reinforced - Gold
    I think only time will tell, we will all see what happens in the future. I have donated amount that seemed reasonable to me, because I like the game. I couldn't care less about some reward fluff because it adds nothing to the game. What I am interested in seeing is debugging, optimization and balancing in that order of importance, with emphasis being put on convergent tuning. If huge changes are implemented and later many of them are scrapped and replaced by other huge changes in different direction, it may be a sign of a problem (something I would call "bi-polar development syndrome").

    But once again, only time will tell. I am hugely sceptical the target of 550k will be hit, though. Most of the dedicated, hard-core fans who wanted to donate probably already donated.
  • AurOn2AurOn2 COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS! Australia Join Date: 2012-01-13 Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
    Well for those of us with a strict purse, it's classified as a price tag.
    "what do i give, and what do i get in return?"
    is all of us who really only have $5 spare after expenses.
  • Mac1OManMac1OMan Join Date: 2004-10-29 Member: 32510Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited September 2013
    AuroN2 wrote: »
    Well for those of us with a strict purse, it's classified as a price tag.
    "what do i give, and what do i get in return?"
    is all of us who really only have $5 spare after expenses.
    Exactly how I feel. Some people simply can't afford to donate 75$, let alone pay 60$ for a game they really want.

    Call it a bonus, perk or whatever, either way its still more expensive then an entire game brand new. Making people feel left out... the haves and the have nots...
  • Mac1OManMac1OMan Join Date: 2004-10-29 Member: 32510Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited September 2013
    People here are starting to make me wish they went the DLC route. But I don't obvously.
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    I do wish you could upgrade tiers, since I'm holding out for the Shadow tier as I want the cool bonuses, but can't drop down the full amount right now.

    Also do the Reinforced badges overwrite the pax badges? Or what if I want to use the Gold pack shoulder decal instead of the Elite decal, any options to change it or are they limited to the tier you purchase?
  • BentRingBentRing Join Date: 2003-03-04 Member: 14318Members

    Also do the Reinforced badges overwrite the pax badges? Or what if I want to use the Gold pack shoulder decal instead of the Elite decal, any options to change it or are they limited to the tier you purchase?

    Don't know about the shoulder decals, but last night I saw a guy with the PAX and shadow badge side by side in the scoreboard.
  • NarfwakNarfwak Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
    BentRing wrote: »

    Also do the Reinforced badges overwrite the pax badges? Or what if I want to use the Gold pack shoulder decal instead of the Elite decal, any options to change it or are they limited to the tier you purchase?

    Don't know about the shoulder decals, but last night I saw a guy with the PAX and shadow badge side by side in the scoreboard.

    This is correct. The reinforced badge takes its own slot and doesn't cover up other badges.
  • Blarney_StoneBlarney_Stone Join Date: 2013-03-08 Member: 183808Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I don't think of it as a price tag on the items, I look at the items as being little "thank you" bonuses for my donation.

    I would have donated money even if I hadn't gotten anything, just because I think UWE is a good developer in need of some support. Certainly after the last however many hours of entertainment they've provided me, they are deserving of it.

    So frankly, I think asking "will the items ever be available for a cheaper price" is looking at the entire thing the wrong way. In fact, I'd be rather disappointed if the items ever became available for a cheaper price, as that would defeat the purpose of what they are trying to represent.
  • MestaritonttuMestaritonttu Join Date: 2004-07-29 Member: 30229Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
    The reinforced tag in-game in the scores:

    Wouldn't it look better on the right side of the name instead of the left?

    So that everyones name would start from the same line.

    Just a thought I had.
  • zeqzeq Join Date: 2012-02-14 Member: 145493Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    The skins and badges in this game are primarily designed as signs of recognition for doing something, such as going to pax, playing the alpha, or supporting future development of the game. In this way I feel it is just a wrong mindset to thing of them as comparable to micro transactions or dlc needed for the "full experience." That said I do understand the sentiment of wanting to support but not having the upfront money to do so, though there isn't much that can be done about that. Lowering the price doesn't make much sense in this case, though perhaps having the skins unlock at lower tiers would have been nice because then more people who supported would be able to show this. Although you do still get a badge, that is something, I guess.
    The early access idea is interesting, as it helps cover the costs of larger patches when larger patches come. Additionally I don't feel the splitting the community is that problematic as it is a temporary thing, and this is basically just buying your way into the beta testing group for a specific patch. This could be good or could be bad. It could mean that more people with more diverse computer setups get into the beta test, thus allowing for a more stable release in addition to covering a portion of the costs, or it could mean that you get a less diverse group as you now need to pay to get into it and the group willing to do that is fairly similar in setup, leading to buggier releases. Another problem is a possible sense of betrayal or ill will when someone buys into something like this, thinking "Hey, it can't be any buggier than the stuff I put up with already to play this game." and expect that they shelled over money to play something comparably stable/balanced to released patches. No matter how much you make it clear that something is a beta, and has qualities of something in beta, someone will not get that through their head.
  • Mac1OManMac1OMan Join Date: 2004-10-29 Member: 32510Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    zeq wrote: »
    The early access idea is interesting, as it helps cover the costs of larger patches when larger patches come. Additionally I don't feel the splitting the community is that problematic as it is a temporary thing, and this is basically just buying your way into the beta testing group for a specific patch.

    I look at it as a more reliable source of income and profit as DLC without the negative side effects. I played the alpha and the beta and they were just that to me. No matter where you go there will be a hard head that talks shit about games that do early testing. If a game is truly good early access/beta's are not going to break a game.

    There hasn't been a single game I've tested where someone didn't talk shit about it. There also hasn't been a game I've tested that flopped because of a beta test, that's just absurd.
  • Mattk50Mattk50 Join Date: 2013-02-04 Member: 182824Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Some people in this thread are astounding. Some of these people would actually prefer paid dlc or expansions.

    This is an excellent example of people with lacking mental capacity and foresight not knowing what they actually want.
  • zeqzeq Join Date: 2012-02-14 Member: 145493Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Mac1OMan wrote: »
    There hasn't been a single game I've tested where someone didn't talk shit about it. There also hasn't been a game I've tested that flopped because of a beta test, that's just absurd.

    Yes it is pretty much to be expected that some people just won't understand what a beta is, and that that alone will not be enough to kill a game. The question however is whether such a thing can do more harm than good, essentially the question of would this have sold better or have more regular player had the beta test not been done? In the case of the alpha and beta for NS2, I think that is pretty clearly a yes it did do better because of those, even though there were a number of people who stopped playing because of bad alpha experiences. In the case of post release early access for patches, I am not so sure.
  • DaxxDaxx Join Date: 2002-04-16 Member: 460Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    I don't think of it as a price tag on the items, I look at the items as being little "thank you" bonuses for my donation.

    I would have donated money even if I hadn't gotten anything, just because I think UWE is a good developer in need of some support. Certainly after the last however many hours of entertainment they've provided me, they are deserving of it.

    Having put well into the thousands of hours of play into NS1 and NS2 over the years, this is exactly how I look at it. The fact that supporting the game I've enjoyed so much for so long came with a few extras is pure gravy. Hell I was considering Onos teir donation, but it was sold out, and I'm afraid 8k is a wee bit out of my range :p
  • WispWisp Join Date: 2007-12-18 Member: 63211Members, Reinforced - Diamond
    The Reinforcement program isn't mean to be priced at fair value. I didn't pay $40 for an Assault skin. I donated $40 for future development, with the Assault skin as a nice bonus.

    I agree that this system isn't a good long-term solution for future development. The developers would probably raise a lot more money with an in-game store selling skins at like $2-10. You could have more Marine skins, more Alien skins, and potentially even weapon skins would be nice.

    I think splitting up the community with timed exclusive content is a really bad idea. Everyone should be on fair ground when it comes to playable content. Cosmetic stuff doesn't matter in the end.
  • 2cough2cough Rocky Mountain High Join Date: 2013-03-14 Member: 183952Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    Just sayin... I could chomp the hell out of a green armor marine, or a black armor marine, or even a black armor elite assault, and it would be EXACTLY the same amount of gratification. I would love to support, but could care less about the skins. Does not affect gameplay at all, so your experience is really identical. Anyways, black armors are the only skins I think are cool and not because of their look, but because I can respect the person who spent that early dough to make the game a reality. Shadow badges = gonna die by my teeth/gun one way or another. They've already bought the game, and are simply bein rewarded for their DONATION on top of purchase, not for their purchase of the game, alone. I think i've done the math and it's like something under $.22/day for me to have enjoyed NS2 so damn much. That's a great amnt of replay value right there and I dont think I deserve anything else for the pittance I've paid so far. Obviously if you had to shell out $75 for some new weapon or alien ability, the balance in this game would go out the window.

    And why the hell would you wanna pay for beta gameplay that would be buggy just so you could play it a month before everyone else? IMO, that's not the point.... I think the program they've chosen is truly the way to go. They already have people they pay to sort thru all the bugs, why would you pay to do the same? Plus, you can always try to find a bt server w/ some possible future inclusions.
    Wisp wrote: »
    I think splitting up the community with timed exclusive content is a really bad idea. Everyone should be on fair ground when it comes to playable content. Cosmetic stuff doesn't matter in the end.

    QFT
  • zeqzeq Join Date: 2012-02-14 Member: 145493Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    2cough wrote: »
    And why the hell would you wanna pay for beta gameplay that would be buggy just so you could play it a month before everyone else? IMO, that's not the point.... I think the program they've chosen is truly the way to go. They already have people they pay to sort thru all the bugs, why would you pay to do the same? Plus, you can always try to find a bt server w/ some possible future inclusions.

    That is the biggest problem I see with beta access to these things, however I think there would be people willing to do it, because it would make the content patches more stable and support the devs financially. I don't think it is that great of a solution, but compared to cash shops or other solutions it seems to be one of the better ones for something more long term. However, it probably wouldn't work for this game regardless, as they will probably only do one more content patch if Reinforced get funded. Also the beta testers who find all the bugs aren't payed. They are mostly volunteers.
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