Aura is the worst ability I've seen in a competitive game.

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Comments

  • elodeaelodea Editlodea Join Date: 2009-06-20 Member: 67877Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    ChrisAUS wrote: »
    This is a horrible mechanic to have in a game that relies on teamwork and tactics. It forces marines to win engagements by burst damage/dps and nothing else.
    tbh, this is something i'd say about phantom. Not aura.
  • statikgstatikg Join Date: 2012-09-19 Member: 159978Members
    Aura raises the skill floor, you are confusing the issue when you talk about it lowering the skill ceiling. I suspect high level players often prefer silence. This is a good thing. High level players wiping the floor with the rest of the server has been a historic problem in ns2. Having an ability that is better for low level players is great.
  • DavilDavil Florida, USA Join Date: 2012-08-14 Member: 155602Members, Constellation
  • Know painKnow pain Join Date: 2012-09-04 Member: 157674Members
    @Davil

    They had a focus like ability for the fade in beta but they got rid of it.
  • KhyronKhyron Join Date: 2012-02-02 Member: 143308Members
    Aura & Phantom is the best iteration of the shade hive abilities so far. Why? Shade hive is not regarded as a must-have first hive nor is it always relegated to the third hive (for the first time ever).

    Incidentally, the only lifeform I use Aura with is the Gorge.
  • ritualsacrificeritualsacrifice Join Date: 2012-11-14 Member: 171148Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Aura is best on Lerks imo. 2nd best on fades. Probably wouldn't get it for any other lifeforms though... phantom is better for skulks and gorges imo.
  • RadmanRadman Join Date: 2013-04-05 Member: 184656Members
    IMO, it's not worth arguing that a certain skill is "annoying" unless it objectively affects gameplay in a negative way. That how you fall into the "scrub" trap, where every new mechanic is decided to be stupid or bad, and we're stuck playing a 1-dimensional game until a game like dota comes out that embraces every single annoying feature.
  • sotanahtsotanaht Join Date: 2013-01-12 Member: 179215Members
    Radman wrote: »
    IMO, it's not worth arguing that a certain skill is "annoying" unless it objectively affects gameplay in a negative way. That how you fall into the "scrub" trap, where every new mechanic is decided to be stupid or bad, and we're stuck playing a 1-dimensional game until a game like dota comes out that embraces every single annoying feature.

    So the entire fighting game community in a nutshell.

    Aura is best on Lerks imo. 2nd best on fades. Probably wouldn't get it for any other lifeforms though... phantom is better for skulks and gorges imo.

    Not that it has anything to do with comp, but I love doing tricky things with celerity/aura/regen gorges. Celerity gorge is FAST, can escape almost anything. Regen saves the energy I would be burning quick on healspray so I can afford not to have adren, and aura tells me when to use that speed and run, or when the coast is clear to advance. I use this for either taking potshots at marines and making them to chase what they have no chance of catching or harassing an empty base and running away again when they phase through.
  • maD_maX_maD_maX_ Join Date: 2013-04-07 Member: 184678Members
    Alternative is focus... And you don't want pro focus fades running the map...
  • ruprechtruprecht Join Date: 2013-03-16 Member: 184022Members
    elodea wrote: »
    tbh, this is something i'd say about phantom. Not aura.
    i am a more efficient killer with phantom as well. silence is everything; for offense or structure destruction.
  • ChrisAUSChrisAUS Join Date: 2012-11-17 Member: 172108Members
    statikg wrote: »
    Aura raises the skill floor, you are confusing the issue when you talk about it lowering the skill ceiling. I suspect high level players often prefer silence. This is a good thing. High level players wiping the floor with the rest of the server has been a historic problem in ns2. Having an ability that is better for low level players is great.

    You are wrong about the skill floor/ceiling.

    The skill floor is the base requirement needed to be able to play a lifeform. Disregarding rookies the skill floor for fade is:
    - Move around the map with blink/jump
    - Know the basics of hive upgrade abilities and what they do
    - Know what abilities the fade has

    The skill ceiling is the highest level someone can use that lifeform. The higher the skill ceiling the more individual skill/dedication needed to 'max out' the ceiling. This would be things like:
    - Identifying probable trap/block locations
    - Knowing how many swipes you need to kill a marine
    - Knowing which marines are already injured
    - Knowing when and where to enter/exit combat

    Aura gives a lot of the higher level skills to players who haven't worked to achieve them. Something that shouldn't happen in a competitive game.

    Pub stomping is an on-going problem, but the solution isn't to lower the skill ceiling so individual players can't develop skills that make them stand out as dedicated/talented players. The solution for that is to give players the ability to play on servers that are more suited to their skill level, and to discourage things like stacking/stomping.

    Having abilities that developing players can USE easily enough, yet require time and dedication to master is what is needed. Aura skips out a lot of the steps needed to reach a high level, thus lowering the skill ceiling.

    If you take an average fade, give him a wallhack and a HP indicator then you aren't giving him room to learn specific tools that would legitimately elevate him to a good fade. You are making him rely on that ability to let him avoid mistakes/bad decisions that he would learn from.

    Not to mention how it negatively impacts marine ability to show individual skill.

    I haven't thought too much about an alternative/fix but aura as it is shouldn't be in the game.
  • 1dominator11dominator1 Join Date: 2010-11-19 Member: 75011Members
    Well considering that before aura shade was total ass and now it can easily compete with crag/shift for first hive (and be the funnest of the three to boot) I do not have much sympathy.
  • amoralamoral Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177250Members
    as a pretty average fade, I like adrenal then aura, then crag upgrade. adren is so I don't have to worry as much about energy, and aura is primarily used to cut downthe numbers more quickly. the wallhack is also nice when your team doesn't really scout as well as they should.
  • sotanahtsotanaht Join Date: 2013-01-12 Member: 179215Members
    edited August 2013
    ChrisAUS wrote: »
    statikg wrote: »
    Aura raises the skill floor, you are confusing the issue when you talk about it lowering the skill ceiling. I suspect high level players often prefer silence. This is a good thing. High level players wiping the floor with the rest of the server has been a historic problem in ns2. Having an ability that is better for low level players is great.

    You are wrong about the skill floor/ceiling.

    The skill floor is the base requirement needed to be able to play a lifeform. Disregarding rookies the skill floor for fade is:
    - Move around the map with blink/jump
    - Know the basics of hive upgrade abilities and what they do
    - Know what abilities the fade has

    The skill ceiling is the highest level someone can use that lifeform. The higher the skill ceiling the more individual skill/dedication needed to 'max out' the ceiling. This would be things like:
    - Identifying probable trap/block locations
    - Knowing how many swipes you need to kill a marine
    - Knowing which marines are already injured
    - Knowing when and where to enter/exit combat

    Aura gives a lot of the higher level skills to players who haven't worked to achieve them. Something that shouldn't happen in a competitive game.

    Pub stomping is an on-going problem, but the solution isn't to lower the skill ceiling so individual players can't develop skills that make them stand out as dedicated/talented players. The solution for that is to give players the ability to play on servers that are more suited to their skill level, and to discourage things like stacking/stomping.

    Having abilities that developing players can USE easily enough, yet require time and dedication to master is what is needed. Aura skips out a lot of the steps needed to reach a high level, thus lowering the skill ceiling.

    If you take an average fade, give him a wallhack and a HP indicator then you aren't giving him room to learn specific tools that would legitimately elevate him to a good fade. You are making him rely on that ability to let him avoid mistakes/bad decisions that he would learn from.

    Not to mention how it negatively impacts marine ability to show individual skill.

    I haven't thought too much about an alternative/fix but aura as it is shouldn't be in the game.

    I always see skill floor as what an idiot can do. What can someone with no skill or experience accomplish with the lifeform, and how does it compare with higher skill levels? Onos has a very high skill floor. The most complicated thing involving that lifeform is knowing when and where to attack and when to run, even a total noob can be a wrecking machine until he dies. Fade on the other hand has an extremely low skill floor, just moving around takes experience and knowledge a noob wont have.

    If aura is "useless" to high level players because they can replace it's function with personal ability, it does nothing to skill ceiling. Their game is literally unchanged (directly) by the ability since they won't even be using it. Meanwhile aura is beneficial to the noob who at least knows where to find someone he can try to kill.

    Anyway floor/ceiling aside, Aura is a great way to learn patterns. It's hard to recognize a pattern, like marine movement or health, if you can't SEE the pattern. Aura helps beginners to see what's going on, so eventually they might build up enough recognition to understand what's happening even when they don't have the ability.
  • _Necro__Necro_ Join Date: 2011-02-15 Member: 81895Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited August 2013
    http://harook.blogspot.de/2013/05/skill-floor-vs-skill-cap.html

    The skill floor is the amount of skill you need to play a class / lifeform. A low skill floor means, the class is easy to play without long practicing sessions.

    The skill ceiling is the cap at which you won't get any better with this class through practice. A complex class has a high skill ceiling in most cases.

    Think of it as a line with numbers from left to right, with the number expressing your skill. The skill floor is the left border, the skill ceiling the right one. If you are in this interval, you can play this class effective. You will not exceed the right border. And if you exceed the left border, you will be stomped and have no success with this class.

    This means, the Onos has a very low skill floor. It is easy to pick up how to play onos.
    The Fade has a higher skill floor.
  • sotanahtsotanaht Join Date: 2013-01-12 Member: 179215Members
    edited August 2013
    Your definition of floor is too nebulous. How low can you go and still be "effective"? If you were playing against other beginning players, you might be effective with next to no ability at anything.. you might even pull off a fade without blink or a gorge without healspray. If you are playing against particularly skilled players, no amount of skill short of their own level will make you effective with anything.

    As I define it, if you pick up and play a fade for the first time how much can you accomplish? Not much obviously. The apparent skill when playing a fade for the first time is the "floor", and is MUCH lower than when playing an onos for the first time.

    Defining low and high my way also has the benefit of showing the gap between floor and ceiling. Onos has a high skill floor (minimum accomplishment) and low skill ceiling. The difference between a new and skilled player is small, or at least smaller than fade which has a low floor and high ceiling.
  • amoralamoral Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177250Members
    yeah, aura kinda loses it's purpose when you've got a fadeball going, and when marines routinely get medded and welded. though it does make it particularly hard to pinch good players, which can get annoying.
  • DavilDavil Florida, USA Join Date: 2012-08-14 Member: 155602Members, Constellation
    Know pain wrote: »
    @Davil

    They had a focus like ability for the fade in beta but they got rid of it.

    I know someday though I can hope it will return

  • Cannon_FodderAUSCannon_FodderAUS Brisbane, AU Join Date: 2013-06-23 Member: 185664Members, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    I love Aura (or SoF for us oldies). I am an average pubber, and don't think its imba at all. It really helps with deciding to engage or not. Whilst OP cites it forces marines to engage at an unfavorable place due to lifeforms aware of health and numbers of marines. I don't see that as a bad thing. Because it can be countered by meds during engagement. This is not an end all ability, as it can be countered with scan / upgrades (A/W). In the end, the alien lifeforms still need to engage to push marines back. All the information in the world isn't going to stop a push by marines because the engagement WILL be on marine terms (they have decided to push out). So, whilst Aura helps you decide to engage or not if ambushing, it does not negate the fact that if a team is attacking, the other team needs to defend (ie. engage at the front line).

    Just an anecdote, on the front line before planning an attack, I like to get Aura as any life form (generally skulk or gorge), and tell my team how many is in the area, so we can assess if the rush is risky or not. Particularly good to take down forward base or 2nd cc locations.
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    This is how I see it (didn't read the whole thread):

    Shade is awesome now. Both phantom and aura grant you useful abilities for intelligent alien play. Phantom allows the >rookie player to ambush and hit marines without noticing them. Aura helps to close the skill gap between beginners and vets, as beginners get an ability that helps them to get an overview over the situation, while vets don't need it (because they are aware of marines anyway) and can use phantom instead.

    Shift is in a fine place and shouldn't be changed. Crag sucks.
  • joederpjoederp Join Date: 2012-11-02 Member: 165992Members
    I don't have a problem with shade abilities, but I do think shift abilities need a slight buff and cara abilities need a huge buff for lerk / fade / onos. Especially onos, its a giant useless waste of res at this point.
  • joshhhjoshhh Milwaukee, WI Join Date: 2011-06-21 Member: 105717Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    Davil wrote: »
    Know pain wrote: »
    @Davil

    They had a focus like ability for the fade in beta but they got rid of it.

    I know someday though I can hope it will return

    It was horribly OP lol. I don't see it coming back ever.

    As for aura, I personally do not use it as long as my split partner has it. It is great for RT harassing (lol veil skylights/overlook) since you can easily get out of the room before the marine even enters. Engagement wise, it doesn't really do much. Normally, in an engagement, you can pretty accurately assume how much hp a marine has. But like several other people have posted, silence is pretty nasty.
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation
    I was going aura fade alot, and I was also dying alot and making bad decisions. And without a chuckle key I can't make marines hear me if I have silence without using that menu, so f that too.

    Now I save my 5 res. Situational Awareness > Aura.
  • maD_maX_maD_maX_ Join Date: 2013-04-07 Member: 184678Members
    Why do you want to be heard...
  • Cannon_FodderAUSCannon_FodderAUS Brisbane, AU Join Date: 2013-06-23 Member: 185664Members, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    Given the current Alien win rate, I don't see buffs coming any time soon. As for crags, they suck hard because they don't heal very much and take a long time to fully heal you, so its faster to get back to the hive and come back. I don't see them place much as a forward base any more - shame. Because it could be a good T.res sink, so comms don't give out fade eggs for that dreaded fade ball. Maybe crag healing can be stacked in the sense that the longer you stay the faster it heals. So 1st tick = 2% health back, 2nd tick = 3% health 3rd ticks = 4% health. That way a crag is not totally useless, but won't be op to the point the that Alien pressure is non stop. I should x-post this to suggestions.
  • amoralamoral Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177250Members
    Given the current Alien win rate, I don't see buffs coming any time soon. As for crags, they suck hard because they don't heal very much and take a long time to fully heal you, so its faster to get back to the hive and come back. I don't see them place much as a forward base any more - shame. Because it could be a good T.res sink, so comms don't give out fade eggs for that dreaded fade ball. Maybe crag healing can be stacked in the sense that the longer you stay the faster it heals. So 1st tick = 2% health back, 2nd tick = 3% health 3rd ticks = 4% health. That way a crag is not totally useless, but won't be op to the point the that Alien pressure is non stop. I should x-post this to suggestions.

    they do still help with hydras. shift crag shade all help gorgies. I like dropping crags near hives for that added boost. and crags at forward locations do help when heatwave is activated.
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