Listen, n00bs will always be a problem, but esp. so in NS.
The reason is because in NS you have people coming from simple, simple, so simple you gotta be retarded not to understand mods, like FA, CS, DOD, etc.
Now, they come to NS. What the hell do you think is gonna happen. People are gonna get confused.
While n00bs will continue to be a major nuisence, there will never be a way around it.
Lets face it, being a newbie is a phase in NS that will last a little while and is something people will have to get around. I know, life sucks and it's not fair but what can you do.
Eventually, someday that same n00b might be pwning you in a clan match, so it's all good in the end.
Also, I don't find the newbies all too bad, usually they make me laugh uncontrollably.
For example, one time, the teams were 2v2. The marines had a comm who had a fairly good idea of what to do, while the other marine on the feild was a complete ramboing n00b moron who had no idea of what to do.
So, right as the game starts the comm started to comm and made a Infantry Portal, but to no avail, as the marine had already rambo'ed off only to be killed 10 seconds later. Shortly after, the comm died as well.
My favorite quote from this experence:
The comm said, "Look at me everywhere, I am so ramboey I rambo off before I even get a spawn up!"
...are we talking about elitism in terms of newbie bashing and arrogance on the part of the more skilled players, or are we talking about elitism in terms of a higher tier of players who thrash the living crap out of their opponents?
CS is a good example of the former, and TFC a good example of the latter. In TFC, the gap in skill level between, say, members of Australia's top 10 clans and everyone else is staggering. In CS.... well, everyone knows about CS <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
NS is fundamentally a VERY hard game to learn to play well. I am a fairly new player, but I've been playing a lot. I know that even after weeks and weeks of play I still have a lot to learn. Even today I learned new stuff, and I even pass some of it on.
I think the Dev's did an amazing job of teaching the MECHANICS of the game. The dropping down text messages and HUD pop-ups are awesome. But even after you have digested all that info, you really don't know what to do and not to do.
Myself as an example -> I am 28 years old, with a Degree in Electrical Engineering. I have been playing First Person Shooters since Doom, on my dinky 386/25. I had LAN parties before anyone even knew what they were. I used THINNET for godsake! 10BaseT ThinNet!!
That having been said, I found the game hard to learn. Once I had a handle on the mechanics, I still didn't know what to do. I am not a dumb man, but goodness gracious, how the heck can you learn stratigies? Even after spending a lot of time on the fourm, just reading, I still didn't know not to attack the first Res Tower I saw. I only really understood it once I had played Kharaa for a few times. Even now, I am only just learning how not to be a terrible Newb on Kharaa.
Gotta tell you, about three days ago a player I really respected singled me out specifically a "being the reason we are losing" - Which really hurt. I am totally in there, trying hard to learn, and Smack, suddenly I'm a "Newbie" again. I had a bunch of experience under my belt, but not a lot of instruction.
So - Eliteist? No. Just not as tollerant as we should be.
And heck, I do it too. Even with my little knowledge I the first one to be yelling and screaming "Idiots!" into the mic. We just have to remember our newbieness and try to be tolerant.
im with St.Peter on this one, he has his head on strait. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
i think that every1 just has to be a bit more understanding, ppl wont all know how to play, it can take a week for some people to learn how to play, a day for others. if they are new, be nice, and they will most likely be nice back. you dont want to go n00b bashing or there will be no NS community, the more experienced players may get bored of the game, and leave. if no1 is nice to noobs, they wont stay in the game, the game will have no players.
just learn that people need to learn, the better the environment, the faster they will learn.
KenichiThis is not a pie.Join Date: 2002-11-01Member: 2941Members, NS1 Playtester
<!--QuoteBegin--Naughty Brembo+Jan 4 2003, 05:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Naughty Brembo @ Jan 4 2003, 05:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> Someone needs to pick up a dictionary<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> e?lit?ism or ??lit?ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-ltzm, -l-) n. The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.
The sense of entitlement enjoyed by such a group or class. Control, rule, or domination by such a group or class.
by the definition clans in any mod are elitist. Regular players are not an organized group of people that can be considered an elite group of people.
<!--QuoteBegin--Immacolata+Jan 4 2003, 11:50 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Immacolata @ Jan 4 2003, 11:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Perhaps you should go play some other game untill you are less weary, then. Quote supernorn2000's sig....<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yea like that is going to stop the n00b lord's armies numbering in the tens of thousands.
At some point the glass will be full and spillage occur. There will always be n00bs. If you want a game when there cannot be an instance of "RTFM", heck, you gotta make it as simple s Bejeweled or something. Where there are manuals, there are always those who never read them. Sort of the 2nd law of Humanity. If you make all the effort in the world to be paid notice, there is always someone who ignores it.
Is a newbies fault if an Arsehole tells him CC's can kill aliens in 1 shot?
Dont forget even the Best players where newbies once to,
Newbies are the People that we should eb treating nice they are the People who are Likely to become regulars and Contribute to the NS Comunity in the future.
the term Elitest has no part in the world it like everything is Formed by your own veiws and opinions. One mans Fish is another mans Posion. Although Shareing your opinions and thoughts often are rejeckted by the Narrow minded Majority, never give up on your veiws,so Is Natural Selection Elitest? Depends who you ask Everyone is different everyone will give you a different ancer.
However treat newbies with respect dont tell them things like "cc's can kill aliens in 1 hit" and you wont have that problem because after all you where a newbie once to <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Kenichi is right, by defination clans are Elitest, because they do not include everyone. So every mod is Elitest essentially, because almost all mods have clans. Clans are essentially a group of players that constantly play together to improve their game and win.
At leats thats what sYn tries to do.
So I guess that makes us elitest, because we exclude people, because if we had too many members more people would be unhapppy because we would only put our best in matches. oh well. Cant make them all happy.
I kind of want to toss my two cents into this discussion. Coming from TF/TFC I generally do not see other players harassing the new players, I also no longer play on Phatfarm or any other popular server where it happens. Sure I used to play on them, but before they were main-stream popular. I have 2 or 3 "main" servers, I'll play on them till I see too many players yelling at the gorge/commander/marine/eggplanet. If I wanted to listen to whining, I'll be a teacher, at least i'd get paid for it. Games are fun and losing on pubs doesn't bother me.
This game isn't just point-click-kill, from a fps/rts game perspective, it takes a little longer to learn. If I see someone kind of going off on their own, i'll try to giv e them a hand. At least I'll try to tell them how they can help out the team. If i'm commanding i'll tell them my overall strategy and why they can't have the jp/hwg/ha/gl. I'll make it clear to them I don't want to waste money on marines that run off solo. Go off in pairs... I commanded a small game 3v2 where the two marines just ran off (in opposite directions) and then later blamed me when I was killed in base with no spawns finished. It took 3 or 4 rounds before they learned, but atleast they did.
Also I'm willing to give up my game to help the new commander/gorge/whoever. I'll teach him how to play, protect him so he can navigate the menu and let him build w/o interruption. S/he needs to have a few extra seconds to learn and evolve into a better player. I won't be the **** yelling "n00b" through the mic or wasting my time typing it out. For how long it takes to criticize someone, you could have just as easily helped them out.
This game has been publicly out for about two months. The vast majority of people are going to be new players. The problem isn't the new players, it is the people who constantly tear them down. They are the ones intentionally sabotaging the game and stunting its growth. I will blame them for destroying the game and its future.
Take a little time and help someone out, you are not the only person on the server.
<!--QuoteBegin--rebo+Jan 4 2003, 12:01 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (rebo @ Jan 4 2003, 12:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Due to the admittedly steep learning curve for NS, is the game inherently eliteist or maybe more specifically are the regular players and community always going to be elitist.
By eliteist I mean an absolute disdain for newbs and poor tactical decisions. Weve all seen the gorge barraged with insults for building sensory and the commander who is called all sorts of names for making 7 turrets in the base. Is this the destiny of the mod, will it limit growth, and if so is it a bad thing?
Personally as long as the 'fun' element remains im sure the mod will continue to attract new players. Altho is it possible for the mod to remain fun with an RTS type system that means there will always be an optimum strategy to winning (which by definitions newbys will not know about)?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> if elitest means keeping out mtv watching morons then GOOD
I rarely see much abuse of newb marines or skulks. They just don't make enough of an impact on the game to really matter. But builders? Brutal.
I was in a game a couple weeks back where the commander built the first turret factory a bit far forward. He was probably thinking he could cover a larger area. Unfortunately, it didn't effectively cover his command chair, and a few skulks took it out mid-game. Oh, the wailing that followed. That poor guy was the target of constant verbal abuse until he finally left the server.
Because he put a TF in the wrong place.
Is it any wonder the marines lose some games simply because no one wants to touch the Chair of Blame?
Comments
The reason is because in NS you have people coming from simple, simple, so simple you gotta be retarded not to understand mods, like FA, CS, DOD, etc.
Now, they come to NS. What the hell do you think is gonna happen. People are gonna get confused.
While n00bs will continue to be a major nuisence, there will never be a way around it.
Lets face it, being a newbie is a phase in NS that will last a little while and is something people will have to get around. I know, life sucks and it's not fair but what can you do.
Eventually, someday that same n00b might be pwning you in a clan match, so it's all good in the end.
Also, I don't find the newbies all too bad, usually they make me laugh uncontrollably.
For example, one time, the teams were 2v2. The marines had a comm who had a fairly good idea of what to do, while the other marine on the feild was a complete ramboing n00b moron who had no idea of what to do.
So, right as the game starts the comm started to comm and made a Infantry Portal, but to no avail, as the marine had already rambo'ed off only to be killed 10 seconds later. Shortly after, the comm died as well.
My favorite quote from this experence:
The comm said, "Look at me everywhere, I am so ramboey I rambo off before I even get a spawn up!"
ROFL god I almost died of lack of oxygen.
CS is a good example of the former, and TFC a good example of the latter. In TFC, the gap in skill level between, say, members of Australia's top 10 clans and everyone else is staggering. In CS.... well, everyone knows about CS <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
NS is fundamentally a VERY hard game to learn to play well. I am a fairly new player, but I've been playing a lot. I know that even after weeks and weeks of play I still have a lot to learn. Even today I learned new stuff, and I even pass some of it on.
I think the Dev's did an amazing job of teaching the MECHANICS of the game. The dropping down text messages and HUD pop-ups are awesome. But even after you have digested all that info, you really don't know what to do and not to do.
Myself as an example -> I am 28 years old, with a Degree in Electrical Engineering. I have been playing First Person Shooters since Doom, on my dinky 386/25. I had LAN parties before anyone even knew what they were. I used THINNET for godsake! 10BaseT ThinNet!!
That having been said, I found the game hard to learn. Once I had a handle on the mechanics, I still didn't know what to do. I am not a dumb man, but goodness gracious, how the heck can you learn stratigies? Even after spending a lot of time on the fourm, just reading, I still didn't know not to attack the first Res Tower I saw. I only really understood it once I had played Kharaa for a few times. Even now, I am only just learning how not to be a terrible Newb on Kharaa.
Gotta tell you, about three days ago a player I really respected singled me out specifically a "being the reason we are losing" - Which really hurt. I am totally in there, trying hard to learn, and Smack, suddenly I'm a "Newbie" again. I had a bunch of experience under my belt, but not a lot of instruction.
So - Eliteist? No.
Just not as tollerant as we should be.
And heck, I do it too. Even with my little knowledge I the first one to be yelling and screaming "Idiots!" into the mic. We just have to remember our newbieness and try to be tolerant.
Or just find another server.
just learn that people need to learn, the better the environment, the faster they will learn.
e?lit?ism or ??lit?ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-ltzm, -l-)
n.
The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.
The sense of entitlement enjoyed by such a group or class.
Control, rule, or domination by such a group or class.
by the definition clans in any mod are elitist. Regular players are not an organized group of people that can be considered an elite group of people.
Im tired of thinking "If only these goshdarn n00bs wouldnt be on this server,we would have won.".
Im tired of watching 3 CCs being built at start because some n00b thought they could kill the aliens in 1 hit.
Im tired of people asking dumb questions like "how to buy guns?".FFS this is not CS.
Im tired of n00bs wondering why they cant build seige when they havent upgraded the TF.
Im tired of n00bs playing rambo and pretending not to understand english as the other members of the team scream at them to go to the waypoint.
GOD.DO THESE IDIOTS NOT KNOW HOW TO RTFM?!!?!?!
Yea like that is going to stop the n00b lord's armies numbering in the tens of thousands.
Dont forget even the Best players where newbies once to,
Newbies are the People that we should eb treating nice they are the People who are Likely to become regulars and Contribute to the NS Comunity in the future.
the term Elitest has no part in the world it like everything is Formed by your own veiws and opinions.
One mans Fish is another mans Posion.
Although Shareing your opinions and thoughts often are rejeckted by the Narrow minded Majority, never give up on your veiws,so
Is Natural Selection Elitest?
Depends who you ask Everyone is different everyone will give you a different ancer.
However treat newbies with respect dont tell them things like "cc's can kill aliens in 1 hit" and you wont have that problem because after all you where a newbie once to <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
At leats thats what sYn tries to do.
So I guess that makes us elitest, because we exclude people, because if we had too many members more people would be unhapppy because we would only put our best in matches. oh well. Cant make them all happy.
I kind of want to toss my two cents into this discussion. Coming from TF/TFC I generally do not see other players harassing the new players, I also no longer play on Phatfarm or any other popular server where it happens. Sure I used to play on them, but before they were main-stream popular. I have 2 or 3 "main" servers, I'll play on them till I see too many players yelling at the gorge/commander/marine/eggplanet. If I wanted to listen to whining, I'll be a teacher, at least i'd get paid for it. Games are fun and losing on pubs doesn't bother me.
This game isn't just point-click-kill, from a fps/rts game perspective, it takes a little longer to learn. If I see someone kind of going off on their own, i'll try to giv e them a hand. At least I'll try to tell them how they can help out the team. If i'm commanding i'll tell them my overall strategy and why they can't have the jp/hwg/ha/gl. I'll make it clear to them I don't want to waste money on marines that run off solo. Go off in pairs... I commanded a small game 3v2 where the two marines just ran off (in opposite directions) and then later blamed me when I was killed in base with no spawns finished. It took 3 or 4 rounds before they learned, but atleast they did.
Also I'm willing to give up my game to help the new commander/gorge/whoever. I'll teach him how to play, protect him so he can navigate the menu and let him build w/o interruption. S/he needs to have a few extra seconds to learn and evolve into a better player. I won't be the **** yelling "n00b" through the mic or wasting my time typing it out. For how long it takes to criticize someone, you could have just as easily helped them out.
This game has been publicly out for about two months. The vast majority of people are going to be new players. The problem isn't the new players, it is the people who constantly tear them down. They are the ones intentionally sabotaging the game and stunting its growth. I will blame them for destroying the game and its future.
Take a little time and help someone out, you are not the only person on the server.
dh
By eliteist I mean an absolute disdain for newbs and poor tactical decisions. Weve all seen the gorge barraged with insults for building sensory and the commander who is called all sorts of names for making 7 turrets in the base. Is this the destiny of the mod, will it limit growth, and if so is it a bad thing?
Personally as long as the 'fun' element remains im sure the mod will continue to attract new players. Altho is it possible for the mod to remain fun with an RTS type system that means there will always be an optimum strategy to winning (which by definitions newbys will not know about)?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
if elitest means keeping out mtv watching morons then GOOD
I rarely see much abuse of newb marines or skulks. They just don't make enough of an impact on the game to really matter. But builders? Brutal.
I was in a game a couple weeks back where the commander built the first turret factory a bit far forward. He was probably thinking he could cover a larger area. Unfortunately, it didn't effectively cover his command chair, and a few skulks took it out mid-game. Oh, the wailing that followed. That poor guy was the target of constant verbal abuse until he finally left the server.
Because he put a TF in the wrong place.
Is it any wonder the marines lose some games simply because no one wants to touch the Chair of Blame?