Arms lab mirrors alien upgrades

sotanahtsotanaht Join Date: 2013-01-12 Member: 179215Members
in Ideas and Suggestions
Just an idea to design the marine weapon/armor upgrades to function more like alien spur/shell/veils.

Marines get to build one arms lab per command chair. Arms labs automatically unlock 1 level of armor/weapon upgrade each. Cost per arms lab is increased to 60 to match the current cost of lab+w1+a1 as well as that of a2+w2 with the existing lab. Arms labs can be built anywhere (not locked to a particular chair) and if a chair is destroyed the upgrades remain so long as the arms labs are not destroyed as well.

The benefits of this are that killing an arms lab is more desirable for the alien team (60 res lost) and it more elegantly implements the idea of having marines on one tech be limited to lower upgrade levels. Theoretically you could also have an armor/weapons level 4 on 4 command chairs.

Just something to try out in balance beta test most likely.
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Comments

  • EmooEmoo Ibasa Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11198Members
    60 is hefty price all at once, especially early game! Also I've heard a lot of experienced players say how A1/W1 is pretty pointless and its better to go straight to either A2 or W2 (i.e A1->A2 then W1->W2 or vice versa).

    Saying that marine upgrades are a lot more forgiving than alien upgrades. Lose 3 chambers and its 60 res to replace, lose W3/A3 and it's still only 20 res to replace. Something like this could be tried.

    Maybe arms lab costs 20 and once built you have a choice of making it a weapon lab or armor lab which adds one level to that trait. The research could cost 20 or make the arms lab cost 40 and the research free. Does mean having to make 6 (as opposed to your 3) arms labs to get A3/W3, not sure if that's necessarily a bad thing.
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  • sotanahtsotanaht Join Date: 2013-01-12 Member: 179215Members
    edited July 2013
    60 IS a lot to pay at once, but it also means you get the upgrades together quicker since you don't have any research time and it's the same total cost. It's high enough that marines can't instantly upgrade when the game starts, but that they can still save and "rush" first level upgrades if they want. The eliminated research time is balanced at higher levels against needing the additional command chairs so marines still can't rush to w3/a3 super fast.

    A1 is not pointless. It takes an additional bite with parasite to kill an a1 marine, and you can stretch meds further with it as well. W1 might have been pointless pre 250 (a 100 ehp skulk took 10 shots regardless) but with variable alien health due to biomass there will definitely be times when it saves you a bullet or more killing a skulk.
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  • culpritculprit Join Date: 2005-01-07 Member: 33527Members, Constellation
    edited July 2013
    I like the idea of the armslab being a more valuable target and the upgrades being tied to comm chairs. My version would be to unlock upgrade slots on the arms lab when a comm chair is built. It would start with 3 slots available, with cost being the same as currently set. So with one comm chair you would be able to upgrade to 3w/0a or 1w/2a or 2w/1a, etc. When the 2nd comm chair is built, 2 more slots would be opened. This would allow for 3w/2a or 2w/3a. A third comm chair would be required to reach 3w/3a.

    None of these upgrades would be lost if the comm chairs are lost. If a armslab gets destroyed, you could build a new one with -1w/-1a from what had been unlocked previously. This would make taking out an armslab a good target for breaking down the marines turtle at the end of a round (much like in NS1). Even if the armslab is rebuilt, the marines are still weakened slightly.

    This may seem overly complex, but the armslab is a pillar of the marine tech tree. I believe it could use a bit more possibility space and depth of decisions to round out the meta-balance against the kharaa upgrade system. It would also motivate marine teams to occupy more of the map earlier to build their strength while discouraging the long turtle to end-game tech that currently can occur.
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  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation
    Emoo wrote: »
    Also I've heard a lot of experienced players say how A1/W1 is pretty pointless and its better to go straight to either A2 or W2 (i.e A1->A2 then W1->W2 or vice versa).

    Who?!
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  • sotanahtsotanaht Join Date: 2013-01-12 Member: 179215Members
    culprit wrote: »
    I like the idea of the armslab being a more valuable target and the upgrades being tied to comm chairs. My version would be to unlock upgrade slots on the arms lab when a comm chair is built. It would start with 3 slots available, with cost being the same as currently set. So with one comm chair you would be able to upgrade to 3w/0a or 1w/2a or 2w/1a, etc. When the 2nd comm chair is built, 2 more slots would be opened. This would allow for 3w/2a or 2w/3a. A third comm chair would be required to reach 3w/3a.

    None of these upgrades would be lost if the comm chairs are lost. If a armslab gets destroyed, you could build a new one with -1w/-1a from what had been unlocked previously. This would make taking out an armslab a good target for breaking down the marines turtle at the end of a round (much like in NS1). Even if the armslab is rebuilt, the marines are still weakened slightly.

    This may seem overly complex, but the armslab is a pillar of the marine tech tree. I believe it could use a bit more possibility space and depth of decisions to round out the meta-balance against the kharaa upgrade system. It would also motivate marine teams to occupy more of the map earlier to build their strength while discouraging the long turtle to end-game tech that currently can occur.

    I don't like the idea of un-researching tech. Losing tech because the building providing it is gone and then getting it back when that building is rebuilt is the way most of the game is set up. What you are suggesting means going through about 5 minutes to re-research a3/w3 in addition to all the costs involved (100 res for the tech+building) which is all way too steep.
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  • culpritculprit Join Date: 2005-01-07 Member: 33527Members, Constellation
    You would only lose 1 tier of weapons and armor with the loss of the armslab. It's really only chipping away at the marine tech. A marine team could recover pretty quickly. If they are turtled up with 1 extractor, it would be a more serious blow. At the moment, there is no way to really have a serious effect on the marine tech-tree by destroying a structure. A 2nd comm chair is really the only thing.
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  • sotanahtsotanaht Join Date: 2013-01-12 Member: 179215Members
    culprit wrote: »
    You would only lose 1 tier of weapons and armor with the loss of the armslab. It's really only chipping away at the marine tech. A marine team could recover pretty quickly. If they are turtled up with 1 extractor, it would be a more serious blow. At the moment, there is no way to really have a serious effect on the marine tech-tree by destroying a structure. A 2nd comm chair is really the only thing.

    Weapons/armor 3 cost 40 res each, plus the arms lab for another 20, and it takes 2-3 minutes to research each one (dont know exact time but it's not fast).
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  • ellnicellnic Join Date: 2010-07-19 Member: 72559Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited July 2013
    mattji104 wrote: »
    Emoo wrote: »
    Also I've heard a lot of experienced players say how A1/W1 is pretty pointless and its better to go straight to either A2 or W2 (i.e A1->A2 then W1->W2 or vice versa).

    Who?!

    Me, thats how I do it a lot of the time. It's a good tactic
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