Still standing by my opinion that alien commanders ruined NS2.

PoNeHPoNeH Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester Join Date: 2006-12-01 Member: 58801Posts: 184 Advanced user
Having to rely on teamwork in pub games is probably the most frustrating thing about this game. What made NS1 a success to me, was the simple fact that each side had a very distinct gameplay style. If I was playing in a server that was primarily comprised of inexperienced players (let's be honest, most of them are)... well... I went Alien. Having the ability to play more a individualistic game was key to keeping the game fresh (and keeping my stress level under control). As long as someone was saving for the hive, then you had a chance. NS2's replayability is pretty much non-existent in comparison to the prequel.

My $0.02...
hakenspitSteve123MCwiry
«134

Comments

  • frantixfrantix Members, WC 2013 - Supporter Join Date: 2013-03-18 Member: 184063Posts: 98
    I pretty much agree to the point where you stated that.... where you said that the game is.... pretty much... what I wanted to say is... wait a sec... what just happened...
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorMembers, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Posts: 8,194 admin
    Someone saving for a hive was still teamwork.
    Regardless of that semantic though, i find "teamwork" not only existed in ns1 for aliens as well, but ns2's khamm mechanic doesn't really require team work.. In fact you can have an absolutely silent khamm..

    Try that on marines without getting ejected.

    So, i fail to see your point
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
    ultranewbAurOn2
  • nSidianSidia Members Join Date: 2012-08-15 Member: 155651Posts: 208
    edited July 2013
    One thing that has baffled me is how so many people are just so bad at this game still. I mean I was the best player at the game bar none when I actually took the game serious but still. I really just wish this game was made on the source engine. It would of attracted many more hardcore gamers. I dont mine the gameplay right now for aliens. Its just the maps and the engine and the menus are so laggy and bad and glitchy. The gameplay from a logic standpoint is actually pretty good now. Im still waiting for that source engine port xD.

    Or someone else could just make a ns2 themed mod for half life 3 on source 2 and we can all move there.
  • jewbearjewbear Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-02-09 Member: 182943Posts: 66
    no i'm the best
    bluefanglogo.png
    www.BlueFangSolutions.com - best ns2 server provider
  • LocklearLocklear [nexzil]kerrigan Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, WC 2013 - Shadow Join Date: 2012-05-01 Member: 151403Posts: 1,337 Advanced user
    p sure im the best player bar none
    "If great visuals brings players in, great gameplay gets them to stay." - Valve
  • jewbearjewbear Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-02-09 Member: 182943Posts: 66
    Locklear wrote: »
    p sure im the best player bar none
    you mean bar one...because you are one bad player
    bluefanglogo.png
    www.BlueFangSolutions.com - best ns2 server provider
    Locklear
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NYMembers, Constellation Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Posts: 1,481 Advanced user
    I mean...

    I'm 100% for a massive fade buff and reimplemenetation of gorges building rts and hives, and people dropping rts then saving for lerk, and regen buff, and celerity buff, and adrenaline doubling replenishing rate, and the uselessness of hydras, and focus, and metabolize, and no babblers, and hives scaling armor

    And INCREASED SHOTGUN ROF. Also shotguns that register, like the balance mod (what happened in 250 anyway)
    mattji104
  • SUPER_SARSSUPER_SARS Members Join Date: 2013-02-13 Member: 183039Posts: 274 Advanced user
    plz stop, everyone know I'm #1. Pretty sure you're talking about #1 after me. kthx.
  • jewbearjewbear Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-02-09 Member: 182943Posts: 66
    edited July 2013
    SUPER_SARS wrote: »
    plz stop, everyone know I'm #1. Pretty sure you're talking about #1 after me. kthx.
    http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060505232943/austinpowers/images/c/c3/No2.gif
    Post edited by IronHorse on
    bluefanglogo.png
    www.BlueFangSolutions.com - best ns2 server provider
  • SUPER_SARSSUPER_SARS Members Join Date: 2013-02-13 Member: 183039Posts: 274 Advanced user
    edited July 2013
    jewbear wrote: »
    SUPER_SARS wrote: »
    plz stop, everyone know I'm #1. Pretty sure you're talking about #1 after me. kthx.
    [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060505232943/austinpowers/images/c/c3/No2.gif

    So how hard is it to see out of one eye?
    Post edited by IronHorse on
  • current1ycurrent1y Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester Join Date: 2003-12-08 Member: 24150Posts: 677 Advanced user
    edited July 2013
    jewbear wrote: »
    Locklear wrote: »
    p sure im the best player bar none
    you mean bar one...because you are one bad player

    http://gifs.gifbin.com/032010/1269259657_omg_cat.gif
    Post edited by IronHorse on
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorMembers, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Posts: 8,194 admin
    Buzz Killington says :
    Stop embedding your images, this is not an image board. Funny as they may be. ;-)
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
    GISP
  • ZekZek Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Posts: 4,690 Advanced user
    I think one TRes pool is better than the temp gorging of NS1 where everyone has to act selflessly or the team is screwed. Whether or not a commander is the best alternative is a matter of opinion. To say that it "ruined" anything us absurd though.
  • MrNihilMrNihil Members Join Date: 2013-03-02 Member: 183524Posts: 23
    I dont know how NS1 worked exactly, but theres game called Tremolous, which is pretty much close in gameplay to NS2. There was one pull of res to put on buildings and no RT's since you got money/evo points for performance. Sure aliens could get more individual build system, but that would mean that upgrade/res system would have to be remade for them, not mentioning situations that one silly gorge would build his small pony-fortress and rest of players would starve res for actual needs. If you give individual res to spend on things, someone would have to spend all of this for sake of team, and people dont like that much :). There should be a guy to cover important stuff (upgrades, res management, overall command etc.), to avoid deadly situation where 2 gorges plan to do 2 different things and waste res and time for that.

    If to remove alien comm (By Mr. Nihil):
    -Upgrade system should be remade, so it would still go in desired direction and provide useful buffs, not be upgraded everywhere or not at all, or over-upgraded.
    -Meddling with alien resource system could be mandatory in some way,
    -It would be fun where gorge would be responsible for building healing stations, or offensive/defensive posts like camowhips, even if there would be a commander, I say gorges could do that micro better since concentrating on that particular front or area.
    -It would be even more fun to make alien spawn system not be bound to control point, but they could hatch literary everywhere, where gorge would make nest, like a true infestation. Hives could be used as usual, but be stripped from egg duty.

    I know, most tremolous-like ideas, but that game is very cool and I would deffinitely play a tremolous mod on NS2.
  • BentRingBentRing Members Join Date: 2003-03-04 Member: 14318Posts: 397
    The biggest downside to NS2 having an alien commander is the simple fact that there have to be twice as many people on a server that want to be comm compared to NS1. ;)
    a.k.a. Roland tHTG
    Metal Man
  • male_fatalitiesmale_fatalities ausns2.org Members, Constellation Join Date: 2004-03-06 Member: 27185Posts: 673 Fully active user
    Alien commander needs to be removed because it would stop lifeform explosion.
    NS1: Boost|. mf
    NS2: asc . mf-
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorMembers, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Posts: 8,194 admin
    @male_fatalities at first I'd agree.. But really that's akin to throwing the baby out with the bath water, removing the advantages that come with pres. (most notably that everyone gets to experience the game *more*)

    The source of lifeform explosion is from the original roles and designs which were based off of said tres model. These designs were dropped into a completely different economical model and expected to work the same. Sure they have been tweaked constantly and incessantly, but this was in lieu of actual redesigns that would better fit the newer model.


    The only way to have a harmonic relationship between pres and tiered classes, is to ensure strict and proper roles - fleshing out RPS mechanics - which would make fade balls and any other explosion suicide. (a good example is exosuit design, a whole team of em = facepalm)
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
  • male_fatalitiesmale_fatalities ausns2.org Members, Constellation Join Date: 2004-03-06 Member: 27185Posts: 673 Fully active user
    edited July 2013
    (most notably that everyone gets to experience the game *more*)
    This is the problem... The game has been designed around this but it just doesn't work for RTS/FPS mix. You just can't click on all your zerglings and upgrade them to muta once the spire has finished building. The game should transition into a tech, not be smashed by a tech sledgehammer (whole team of shotguns / fade ball).
    The source of lifeform explosion is from the original roles and designs which were based off of said tres model. These designs were dropped into a completely different economical model and expected to work the same

    I agree.

    THat is why marine PRES needs to be removed as well. It is retarded that at 4 minutes marines go from 6-8 LMG's to 6-8 Shotguns. Then 7 minutes (aliens holding 3 RT), aliens go from 4 skulks + 1 lerk to 4 fades + 1 lerk.

    Removing marine PRES stops the entire team going from LMG -> SG
    Removing Alien commander would force aliens to spend pres investing in RT's & Chambers, resulting in no life form explosion.

    It worked in NS1 perfectly, however for NS2 we are forced to think of inventive ways to fix this problem.

    oh, and it would also create a midgame rather then the early -> late game we currently have.
    NS1: Boost|. mf
    NS2: asc . mf-
    hakenspitTherius
  • Soylent_greenSoylent_green Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11220Posts: 2,875 Advanced user
    IronHorse wrote: »
    @male_fatalities at first I'd agree.. But really that's akin to throwing the baby out with the bath water, removing the advantages that come with pres.

    Aliens always had pres. What's new for them is tres. Gorge still feels shoehorned into the game, despite a menagerie of toys that just can't fill the void of no longer being the builder alien. Playing gorge was important, and tour team jelously protected you.

    Kham still feels shoehorned into the game, with not as much to do and not as tight interaction with his team as the comm; despite various busywork and toys added to him.

    A serious chunk of the charm about NS was that aliens were a decentralised hive mind and the marines centralised, and commanded top down.

    I'm left wondering what is the baby in your analogy. I've yet to see any benefit of kham; not even easier to balance.

    Getting rid of kham does not necessarily mean getting rid of tres. Just build from tres pool.
    YuukiRisingSun
  • bizbiz Members Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167386Posts: 415 Fully active user
    there are easier ways to get rid of explosions than to basically rewrite the entire game...

    change the price dynamically or control the supply... both will work
  • elodeaelodea Editlodea Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2009-06-20 Member: 67877Posts: 1,786 Fully active user
    edited July 2013
    Alien commander needs to be removed because it would stop lifeform explosion.
    Actually it's tres/pres separation that is causing the lifeform explosions. ns1 also had 'alien commander'. Tres/pres was implemented to solve the player size scaling problems ns1 had and the two features are mostly unrelated. Removing ns2 alien kham does not mean removal of tres as many people have already stated.

    Only good reason i see for removing alien commander is so it's much easier to make gorge interesting. Because spreading 1 function over two classes is never really that good an idea.

    But honestly, tres/pres and alien commander are almost certainly not going to be removed for the rest of ns2's lifespan whether we like it or not. Weaknesses and strengths are well known by almost everyone. Better to spend energy discussing other things imo.
    Gorge bilebomb forever.
    IronHorseSolidSpiderAurOn2
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorMembers, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Posts: 8,194 admin
    edited July 2013
    IronHorse wrote: »
    @male_fatalities at first I'd agree.. But really that's akin to throwing the baby out with the bath water, removing the advantages that come with pres.

    Aliens always had pres. What's new for them is tres. Gorge still feels shoehorned into the game, despite a menagerie of toys that just can't fill the void of no longer being the builder alien. Playing gorge was important, and tour team jelously protected you.

    Kham still feels shoehorned into the game, with not as much to do and not as tight interaction with his team as the comm; despite various busywork and toys added to him.

    A serious chunk of the charm about NS was that aliens were a decentralised hive mind and the marines centralised, and commanded top down.

    I'm left wondering what is the baby in your analogy. I've yet to see any benefit of kham; not even easier to balance.

    Getting rid of kham does not necessarily mean getting rid of tres. Just build from tres pool.

    All good points, (except i feel the khamm finally feels like its demanding enough of my attention) and yea what elodea said what i meant to: its the separation of the systems combined with the same designs.
    And pretty much everything else he said too.. lol

    The benefits are primarily:
    • Everyone gets to play more facets of the game (you dont have to pray /beg /bribe your commander to drop you a weapon anymore. You can experience it every round if you please),
    • the game is actually less dependent on the actions of one person as a result (the comm),
    • it scales better with player counts,
    • and lastly its a lot friendlier to newer players. (The responsibilities and impact of what your team spent individually was never really conveyed or centralized as a commander who is focused on the task - providing leniency in your choices as a player)


    @male_fatalities for those reasons i just typed ^ it is actually worth a small bit of thought of how to make the circle fit into a square hole, imo.
    Its really not hard - again i point to exos , or even gorge/onos and lerk /skulk relationships - all you need is complementary classes interacting with one another, each with a downside requiring said interaction to compensate.... or we could do simple like @biz said and price them dynamically.. at the cost of player aggression and frustration, "I saved up for this fade for almost 10 minutes now and someone just evolved and raised the price! ugh!" :shrug:

    It really is easy, though, to design such things.. but i dont expect NS2 will be doing much redesigning after the hoopla that was 250 "A whole new world" patch.
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
    RabidWeaselGhoulofGSG9
  • Soylent_greenSoylent_green Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11220Posts: 2,875 Advanced user
    IronHorse wrote: »
    Everyone gets to play more facets of the game (you dont have to pray /beg /bribe your commander to drop you a weapon anymore.

    Aliens always had PRES.
    IronHorse wrote: »
    it scales better with player counts

    Removing alien commander does not imply removing TRES.
    IronHorse wrote: »
    the game is actually less dependent on the actions of one person as a result (the comm)

    No, the reverse is true. The game is now more dependent on the actions of one alien commander, instead of the collective actions of a couple of gorges. You can overcome having one person dick around with OCs in a pub NS game. In NS2 if the kham rides the short bus you're all screwed.
    IronHorse wrote: »
    and lastly its a lot friendlier to newer players. (The responsibilities and impact of what your team spent individually was never really conveyed or centralized as a commander who is focused on the task - providing leniency in your choices as a player)

    The marine commander must talk to his team or he gets kicked out of the chair. The kham often quite doesn't. You often have no idea where he is looking, what he's doing and newbies won't know or care. Gorges they interact with, on the ground.




  • LocklearLocklear [nexzil]kerrigan Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, WC 2013 - Shadow Join Date: 2012-05-01 Member: 151403Posts: 1,337 Advanced user

    fanatic wrote: »
    nSidia wrote: »
    I mean I was the best player at the game bar none when I actually took the game serious but still.
    Funniest joke I've heard all week.

    <3
    "If great visuals brings players in, great gameplay gets them to stay." - Valve
  • joohoo_n3djoohoo_n3d Members, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Supporter Join Date: 2012-10-30 Member: 164703Posts: 216 Fully active user
    edited July 2013
    either way its the players not playing well together that hurts...not if theres a commander or not for aliens.
    its more complicated than you appear to think and not all about this or that feature of the game.

    check out the mod classic NS.
  • Soylent_greenSoylent_green Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11220Posts: 2,875 Advanced user
    joohoo_n3d wrote: »
    check out the mod classic NS.

    I'd love to. But mods for NS2 don't work. They break as soon as someone at UWE sneezes. If by some miracle they happen to work at the moment, that doesn't mean anyone has started a server yet.

    If by some miracles the mod has been updated and a server has been started, there are usually no players.

    If by some miracle there are players, it's hosted out of New Zeeland or something.



  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorMembers, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Posts: 8,194 admin
    edited July 2013
    aliens had PRES.
    You're missing the point, wrapped up in a terminology debate.

    It doesn't matter what you call it : when a resource system is split into two and both sides are given adequate Amounts to accommodate *all team related needs and all player desires*, individual financial decisions (lifeforms) impact the team FAR less... Giving leniency to player choices. You now spend your resources on what you WANT to play, and alternatively to help your team, not solely because your team needed X upgrade.

    Its NS mixed with combat, a bit.

    The impact is not removed, however, its just lessened.
    The best example of this is how gorges are still very much needed.. But if one didn't save his resources, your team isn't screwed out of getting a hive - that was taken care of by the separated resource system.

    No longer are the responsibilities of individuals as severe, allowing for more choices, experiencing more facets of the game, and more n00b friendly.
    Removing alien commander does not imply removing TRES.
    how would you preserve it, then?
    IronHorse wrote: »
    the game is actually less dependent on the actions of one person as a result (the comm)
    No, the reverse is true. The game is now more dependent on the actions of one alien commander, instead of the collective actions of a couple of gorges.
    I meant less dependent on individual players on the ground, by creating a dedicated commander.

    Your "collection of gorges" sounds nice but it didn't work that way. The cost of a hive, or any large team expenditure *came out of one person's pocket.*
    Now you spend a few res here and there on optional tunnels or hydras etc at most.

    So saying "if the kham is inadequate, gg" is the same as saying "no one will spend their res, gg" both have happened, and still do, but at least you can eject your kham and anyone can rectify it despite the choices they made in the round up til that point.

    Edit : i will agree that the team's responsibility for it's advancement has been diminished with the inclusion of the kham
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
  • Soylent_greenSoylent_green Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11220Posts: 2,875 Advanced user
    edited July 2013
    IronHorse wrote: »
    It doesn't matter what you call it : when a resource system is split into two and both sides are given adequate Amounts to accommodate *all team related needs and all player desires*, individual financial decisions (lifeforms) impact the team FAR less....

    If the kham rides the short-bus, you're all ****ed. The kham's decisions are far more important than any individual alien player in NS1.

    The one way in which the dual res system does reduce the impact of individual financial decisions is entirely pathological. There is no trade-off between life forms and structures. This is not an inherent flaw of having TRES, but of having a fixed partioning between TRES and PRES per player.
    IronHorse wrote: »
    Giving leniency to player choices. You now spend your resources on what you WANT to play, and alternatively to help your team, not solely because your team needed X upgrade.

    What if I want to be gorge and drop important structures? What if nobody wants to be kham (very frequent on pubs where nobody wants to take responsibility for screwing over the entire team; a symptom of individual decisions of the kham being too important).
    IronHorse wrote: »
    The impact is not removed, however, its just lessened.
    The best example of this is how gorges are still very much needed.. But if one didn't save his resources, your team isn't screwed out of getting a hive - that was taken care of by the separated resource system.

    In my experience this was almost never a problem. A much more frequent problem was bad commanders, which was a server-emptying disaster, in NS1 as well as NS2. Now we have 2 comms; if either is terrible it's either a rush victory or 30 minutes of pointlessly getting reamed until you inevitably lose or leaving the server.
    IronHorse wrote: »
    I meant less dependent on individual players on the ground, by creating a dedicated commander.

    The commander is an individual player.
    IronHorse wrote: »
    Your "collection of gorges" sounds nice but it didn't work that way. The cost of a hive, or any large team expenditure *came out of one person's pocket.*
    Now you spend a few res here and there on optional tunnels or hydras etc at most.

    There's no distinction. Some gorges got an RT and went back to skulk. Some gorges got upgrade chambers. Some player saved for a hive.

    In NS2 you'll see a significant number of players who just sit on res, or repeatedly go gorge and bile bomb. The odds of getting a whole team who all want to go fade and onos is statistically insignificant.
    IronHorse wrote: »
    So saying "if the kham is inadequate, gg" is the same as saying "no one will spend their res, gg" both have happened, and still do, but at least you can eject your kham and anyone can rectify it despite the choices they made in the round up til that point.

    Doesn't work that way. People are quick to eject the commander if they suck, but no one wants to take over this mess; nor do people concede a game 5 minutes in. The usual outcome is a slow and painful 30 minute stompfest or an empty server, and it occurs very frequently.

    I've played thousands of NS1 rounds; and I can only remember a few times when nobody saved for a hive and nobody could be arsed to drop RTs. A more frequent problem was someone unilaterlly going gorge and dropping unpopular upgrade chambers. Or in NS 1.0x, multiple gorges or sleaze-bags going gorge to mooch res faster.
    IronHorse wrote: »
    how would you preserve it, then?

    What's the mystery? You just keep it and let gorges spend TRES on structures (excluding hydra/clog/babbler).
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorMembers, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Posts: 8,194 admin
    @soylent_green
    While we may be responding to multiple quotes with one another, we seem to be saying the same thing sometimes:
    This is not an inherent flaw of having TRES, but of having a fixed partioning between TRES and PRES per player.

    That's basically the same thing i was saying... all it was missing was your suggestion of:

    You just keep it and let gorges spend TRES on structures (excluding hydra/clog/babbler).

    But don't discount the fact that because there are two resource systems now, that there is *more* resources for your individual to spend - lending to said "combat mod" gameplay of more higher lifeforms /weapons as well as the other benefits i listed previously.

    So yeah, doing so would diminish the occurrence of a poor khamm ruining games... and shift the responsibility onto a team of potential rookies who have zero clue the impact their decisions will have on their team .. which is basically the same outcome. (since you keep using the extreme - and in my experience rarely seen - "shortbus" example of a khamm)
    You just feel like your team of rookies failed you instead of one player. One player who typically knows what they are doing, since like you said most who wouldn't, are scared away from attempting it.

    I don't see it a huge problem if this change were to be made, other than it doesn't seem worth the effort.
    You're just swapping one downside for another, as long as you keep separated resource systems.
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
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