Why isn't NS2 more popular?
DrGodspeed
Join Date: 2013-01-30 Member: 182621Members
Join Date: 2013-01-30 Member: 182621Members
I'm not sure if a thread like this has gone around before, but as you can see I'm not exactly a forum regular. Just as the title states, I would exactly like to know why isn't NS2 more popular that it currently is? That also leads to another question: what could be done to increase player count/popularity of NS2?
Now, I'm not suggesting that NS2 gaining a COD-like popularity is a good thing (this kind of popularity also brings a lot of baggage, e.g. hacking). I could be wrong, but I don't think this is the intention of UWE anyway. However, I am certainly confused and maybe even a little annoyed when NS2 doesn't even break into the top 100 played games on steam stats. I used to see it lurking down at the bottom of the list (please excuse the pun), but not much anymore. Now I understand that this game is not every gamer's cup of tea, but I'm still baffled why it isn't more popular than it is. I've been playing regularly on and off since release (and played a small amount of ns1) and would love to at least see this grow at least somewhat more. I think the perks of growth from where NS2 is now would overall be beneficial. Larger player count, wider selection for tournaments, more growth for UWE, etc. I feel I have a well rounded interest in this game (I play in pubs, but also watch competitive matches and would eventually like to play low key competitive matches at some point), and just really don't want this game to just die off.
So I would like to know other player's/UWE's opinions on this. I imagine some people perhaps like the game where it is, and some might think I've slightly overreacting, but trolling aside, I would like to see ideas thrown out, because I think in general growth in this game will be nothing but advantageous.
Dr. Godspeed
Now, I'm not suggesting that NS2 gaining a COD-like popularity is a good thing (this kind of popularity also brings a lot of baggage, e.g. hacking). I could be wrong, but I don't think this is the intention of UWE anyway. However, I am certainly confused and maybe even a little annoyed when NS2 doesn't even break into the top 100 played games on steam stats. I used to see it lurking down at the bottom of the list (please excuse the pun), but not much anymore. Now I understand that this game is not every gamer's cup of tea, but I'm still baffled why it isn't more popular than it is. I've been playing regularly on and off since release (and played a small amount of ns1) and would love to at least see this grow at least somewhat more. I think the perks of growth from where NS2 is now would overall be beneficial. Larger player count, wider selection for tournaments, more growth for UWE, etc. I feel I have a well rounded interest in this game (I play in pubs, but also watch competitive matches and would eventually like to play low key competitive matches at some point), and just really don't want this game to just die off.
So I would like to know other player's/UWE's opinions on this. I imagine some people perhaps like the game where it is, and some might think I've slightly overreacting, but trolling aside, I would like to see ideas thrown out, because I think in general growth in this game will be nothing but advantageous.
Dr. Godspeed
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
In other words, NS2 is a game that caters exclusively to hardcore fans of online gaming, the ones who won't shy away from a little depth and the ones who are really looking to dedicate lots of time to learning and improving.
I will say, though, that UWE could potentially help increase the user base if they did a better job of having a tutorial or guide to help new users learn the ropes. The videos that are included to teach new players about the game are, in my opinion, not all that helpful. An offline mode with bots is probably unrealistic, but I do think it would be in UWE's best interests to include a hands-on tutorial mode that more effectively introduces players to the game. That would probably make the learning curve a little less intimidating and ensure that more people stick around to really discover what makes NS2 great.
I just want to sit down, click a button, join a game of equal skill players and have fun. I am not saying that I am not having fun now. NS is a breath of fresh air from other games that are being spat out. But right now, I am playing just to play. That can only hold your game for so long.
Plus, this game has a lot of performance issues with people...
If by incentives you mean gated content that is unlocked by grinding away for hours on end, that kind of thing only drives me away from games and I am sure I am not alone. The "reason to play" is to have fun and get better, not so I can unlock this "leeto-burrito" gun to "pwn sum n00bs" and make a frag video. Honestly these unlock systems are probably one of the worst things to happen to gaming ever. They are a time sink and disingenuous method of prolonging a game's life. If the game is fun to play, it will survive; if it isn't it won't. Building in some crappy tiered unlock system is a piss poor way to keep customers.
IMHO YMMV FWIW
too hard for casuals to learn
and bad performance eliminates 80% of the potential audience, and the serious gamers are just laughing at how silly it is to release a precision shooting game on this engine
I don't think that's what he meant at all. In fact you'd have to be an idiot to think that any dedicated member of NS2 would want that. What he was trying to say by using "incentives" was most likely a ranking system. You want to be rewarded by all your practice not with new guns and stuff, but by a simple recognition of your skill level. If NS2 was to have a ranking system that allowed you to be not only recognized as skilled but also be able to play a higher skill level tier that would be reward in itself. I think it's safe to say that any dedicated NS2 player with more than 600 hrs doesn't want NS2 to become a COD crap knock-off with unlocked weapons/upgrades, but they do want recognition for the amount of time/practice they've dedicated to the game.
What happened to winning your engagements as a recognition of your skill? I don't need some fancy icon next to my name, special skin for my marine, or any other such cruft to know that my practice has paid off.
Besides, his own words were "Each contains some type of ranking and/or level system with rewards. I would say if NS had such rewards and levels, it would have a rising player base instead of a decreasing. " so to me it does sound like he wants something like that.
Furthermore, I think you missed the word "If" in my post.
I've been a serious gamer for way too long, I hate almost all matchmaking systems. The server system allows multiple communities to congregate within the larger NS2 community. Team players, casuals, competitives, etc....
I did have performance issues when I was on a 4 gb ram, 256 mb GPU, and 4.3 dual core. I got my newer computer before release and can't really say whether it's improved or gotten worse but it was playable on my old machine (20 fps at the end of a match give or take)
The real issue is that this game doesn't cater to casual gamers in almost any way. It has a serious learning curve, complicated rules, skill based play, and a higher level of expected teamwork. I'd say that the game can't cater to casual gamers without fundamentally changing the game and frankly I like it how it is.
I think there is WAY more depth then most shooters but it is depth at the team level not the individual level If you focus on just your own movement and shooting the game feels shallow, it is only when working in concert with your team the complexities and depth shows itself. So I think it is more fair to say not enough individual depth, but not flat out not enough depth. The game could use some more variability in weapons and individual play styles if it wanted to widen it's appeal. But honestly that would takeaway from what gives it its macro depth, which I wouldn't want.
I think even for relatively hard core gamers the game is inaccessible because some of the mechanics aren't abundantly clear. As someone who has 300 hours into this game, I get the differences between pres and tres and the relative strength and value of each by team. But I feel like new gamers don't understand the a)how they are getting res, and b) the true value of what they spend it on.
This again I feel leads to that learning cliff, a better tutorial system, or single player mode (not going to happen), would go a lot farther than weapon customizations or unlockable personal tech trees.
Also we need more evangelists, I am helping run the LAN Party room at a local convention this summer and plan to spend the whole time talking up NS2, we are making sure to get the game installed on all the PCs donated for the weekend. It should be interesting, as others have pointed out performance issues could sink us since all the PC's are donated by Con volunteers. But we will do our best to spread the love.
- Bot mode (while many ppl ask for it, i dont really see much learning you can can get out of this - but ill add it anyway)
For basic understandings of the game
- matchmaking ranked and unranked (6v6), custom games (like the current serverbrowser, shouldnt be the main way how you want ppl to play the game - but there is lots of fun and great mods explorable there - hopefully at some point : P)
This will make sure ppl get grouped with players on similar levels, so they can slowly climb up the "ladder" by learning and getting better at this game together.
Ppl get familiar with how the game is played competitive (so while it feels more casual, the setup is pretty much identical to how competitive games are played) so it lowers the entry barrier for ppl to get interessted and check out competitive play. Say what you want but in my opinion ns is less like a normal fps and has more similaritys to a battle arena game. (you dont want latejoiners, leavers, afkers, you want decent commanders teamwork strategy... all this is more encouraged when setup like you see it in those moba games)
- Customizations (some starter ones, some to unlock via achievements, some to unlock via money or luck over time, ladder ranking, Seasons ranking - whatever)
This and the ranking aspect to get ppl motivated and hocked for longer to the game - they feel like they have invested into this game. (so chances are even if they get bored at times, they might check back more often)
- Strategy database (not sure about that one, you would kinda expect the community to create such a thing... but so far nothing has happened...)
Could be a website that you can open up (also from ingame), player created strategies (upvotes and downvotes) with suggestions for commanders and or fieldplayers...
For commanders you could let them highlight guides and even show up some info ingame, like a little buildorder with icons in a corner of the map. (while you cant force ppl to read or know the selected strategy, you can communicate what you are planning, and the guide could have suggestions in it what you should make your players do)
So while not everybody likes or wants to play commander, i imagine it would be interesting for everybody to read - so hopefully over time it will help ppl figuring out what their jobs are on the field.
- Official fun/casual gamemods - either created by UWE or from the community
Mods that are popular and well polished could be added to the unranked matchmaking list, so it will feel more like an official part of the game...
Combat for example is a lot of fun and very beginner friendly, its a great alternative to play ns2 - much more casual fun friendly.
No ranked matchmaking since you want ppl to not forget that ns2 vanilla is where the money is at.
Note: since quality control and proper balance is kinda out of the hands of developers, i dont actually think it would be wise to just add community created stuff - it would be better if it was handled and supported by devs only. But fact is, you need some fun/action gamemodes that feel official.
So while this all sounds relative good i hope, matchmaking is a rather complicated thing for ns2...
Maby more guidance in the beginning will do the trick, or a single player-modes to get guided into the game with a nice story how the skulk became a cow...
I think that times have changed a lot for FPS players and most want unlocks, permanent stats and all that stuff.
The early gameplay for a new player can also be overwhelming. Improving your close combat skulking and shooting is tough and a slow-to-learn skill. In any other game a player would be rewarded for time-played (unlocks, stats) which keeps them engaged while they improve as a by-product.
But before that can happen all the basic stuff needs to be refined and after that good PR will do the trick.
I would play NS2 if the performance was massively increased, by around 150-175%. My team has now moved to CS:GO, originally NS2, but it had very unskilled players and very varying performance.
The game also changed how it played way too often, it was too hard to keep up with such big changes.
I personally think those things are useless and just take away from a game.... but so many people get hooked on them.
difficult for serious players to get an actual match w/out being on a team
Other than that the game is awesome
The reason I view the games as so similar is entirely due to the asymmetrical nature, and how the infected resemble the alien team in many ways. To me, this is the most important difference between these games, and other more typical shooters. Sure, you could say that NS has a very specific tactical element, but I think it only feels like such a huge unique aspect of the game because the RTS perspective really focuses on it. I mean, every game involves strategy, in terms of resource placement and positioning, but when you are looking from a top down view, it automatically feels more tactical, even if it isn't.
So, if you're willing to accept that L4D and NS are very similar games, the next question you have to ask is why is L4D so popular if the gameplay is so niche? In my opinion, its because of the story. Nobody starts playing L4D in versus mode. Nobody goes straight into the hardcore stuff, playing against other experienced players. You start out playing single player or co op, and the AI is relatively very good and convincing and that game mode stands out on its own as a gaming experience. In my opinion, the impact of the "singleplayer" experience in terms of endearing players to a franchise, and encouraging them to play more/ play multiplayer cannot be overstated.
I know of only two FPS game that have ever pulled massive amounts of players without at least a half decent story accompanying some form of singleplayer campaign. The first is counter strike, which in this case is the proverbial lightning, unlikely to strike again in the near future. The second is team fortress 2, which is so finely engineered so as to allow any gamer to identify with a specific role in the game, that it might as well have a story behind it.
In my opinion, if NS2 was to have a well thought out, well done, compelling single player (or even coop) campaign, it would pull a lot more players.
Recently, I have been growing frustrated and bored with the game. It seems like it is a huge PITA to get a game going. No one wants to command, or someone sits there and keeps clicking the button to enter the com station. When a game does get going... people are typing "surrender" 5min in, or "vote concede" 10min in. In the last few weeks, I have only enjoyed 2-3 matches at most.
It is very unfortunate, but I envision this to be a dying game. Within a few years there will only be a 1/4 of the NS2 servers there are now.
While I really like this idea it would be a bit difficult to incorporate a single player campaign like L4D has. The reason for this is because while L4D was designed as a co-op game first and added a versus mode later, NS2 would be going the other way, which is more difficult to do.
It's not difficult to see why L4D did so well:
- 1. Public play consisted of simple 4v4 gameplay (much easier to support a max playercount of 8 players than 24)
- 2. Bots/the Director ensured that the game could continue even when players dropped midway
- 3. Valve has quite a large budget available for game development
You also have to gloss over the L4D1 to L4D2 fiasco a bit (like if UWE said it was dropping all support for NS2 to work on NS3 which is basically just NS2 v2.0 that you get to pay for again!)NS2 has largely been limited by being in a particularly niche genre of gameplay. One of the downsides of trying to push the boundaries in the game industry is that it is difficult to gain as much traction when compared to the latest f2p shooters with achievements and ranks.
shit in a box with Valve's name on it would be more popular than NS2
NS2 did fairly well for a indie game, but let's not pretend it even had a chance to sustain a player base they way the rushed it out
it isn't just about the gameplay design unless it really stands out... it's about marketing the game and getting players to stick around and do the marketing for you
obviously NS2 couldn't afford to market and be an instant hit, but when players don't stick around it's even worse in the long run
I wouldn't disagree.
This thread isn't about the logistics involved with making NS2 more popular, its simply about what could make it more popular.
Of course that doesn't mean they should quit working on optimizations as there are always more to be found. Seeing this game run at 60fps minimum late game on a wider array of hardware would be a dream and I am sure they want that as much as we do. It expands their audience which is good for business. The issue is the smaller team means it is going to take longer than it would for a larger company and not everyone has the patience to wait around for the inevitable improvements.
On another note, for those saying most gamers don't stick around due to the depth or difficulty, the popularity of dota and its derivatives states otherwise. There is an audience for NS2, we just need that word of mouth from the community to expand and UWE to keep pumping out the improvements to performance.
These things that cause performance problems are well known around here.